PrimeTime101
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Posts posted by PrimeTime101
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Just now, HiddenInLight said:
His throws are going to look like Ryan Fitzpatrick for 8 games a year.
really? we have bad weather 8 games a year? I think you should check your facts.
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2 minutes ago, HiddenInLight said:
He ranked dead last in ball velocity at the combine. I'm not so sure he has the arm strength to throw in the wind here.
this reply is just lazy, If you watched his combine or watched any of his games even highlights you can obviously see that your wrong on every level.
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5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:
Manziel ran a 4.55 and Mayfield runs a 4.81
yea I don't like adding running stats to things cause then everyone says run first qb.
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16 minutes ago, Lfod said:
I think people were talking attitude and character and not numbers necessarily. At least that was the impression I was left with reading the boards. I think those people will probably look right past the work you did and probably still make the comparison.
I don't think you can compare anyone to Johnny Manziel, that situation was special and he should own it alone. Even if Baker has character flaws I don't think he flames out as fast as Johnny did.
If we losing horribly and he's out there grabbing himself I could only see that as embarrassment.
oh no they were talking on the field.
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So recently I did a post with people comparing Jackson to Taylor so now i am hearing many people comparing Baker Mayfield to Johnny "football" Manziel
so here we go..
First and foremost note on Johnny that he just played 2 years while Baker Mayfield played 4. So it shows more consistency in a player. I think this is a huge footnote that he could prove over 4 years of production compared to 2.
Knowing this lets just show some factual statistics that show how they are different and work from here.
Baker Mayfield
CAREER STATS SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT 2017 285 404 4627 70.5 11.45 84 43 6 26 198.9 2016 254 358 3965 71.0 11.08 88 40 8 18 196.4 2015 269 395 3700 68.1 9.37 76 36 7 39 173.3 2013 218 340 2315 64.1 6.81 60 12 9 24 127.7 Notes on Baker Mayfield~
Notice after every year how much better he got. It shows that he can still improve on what he has done.. Steady stats can sometimes show that he has hit his peek.
Also notice that his last year he got sacked more often but man.. after digging more i learn that offensive line was beat up bad.
70.5% CMP is prety good
One last note that last year he put up strong yards.
Johnny Manziel
PASSING Stats YEAR CMP ATT CMP YDS AVG TD LNG SAC INT RAT 2012 295 434 68.0 3706 8.5 26 89 21 9 155.3 2013 300 429 69.9 4114 9.6 37 95 19 13 172.9 Notes on Johnny Manziel
Again we only have 2 years of Inf + NFL experience to guide us but lets cut out what he did in NFL and stick to what we have in front of us ok?
First thought is CMP%.. its not exactly bad but not the best either
Next i looked at Average again.. not bad but not great either.
Differences between Johnny and Baker
For starters Ratings.. Baker Mayfield's ratings much better
Then look at INT.. The most Mayfield had was 9 and notice how those numbers went down after every year for Baker and up for Johnny..
In my opinion anyone comparing the two players are either lazy posters, didn't watch game highlights and or full games of each or just doesn't know football.
Mayfield is miles ahead of where Manziel was..
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11 hours ago, Bakin said:
1) Jackson and Allen’s sub 60% completion rating
2) Rosen’s commitment and injury prone
3) Darnold comes from a long line of USC busts and is a ‘turnover machine’
4) Mayfield is short
FFS!
FFS, On stereotyping people.
4 hours ago, Yoho said:Meh
"on my board"
i will quit being a Bills fan if....
Absurd trade proposals
an entire analysis that consists of "he sucks"
anything to to do with Madden football
"my brother and I were talking and...."
predictions of 5th round draft picks.
If I had a nickel for every person that says "I will quit being a bills fan if" or say they quit and never do.. JUST STOP IT!
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14 hours ago, jmc12290 said:
Jackson is not a last resort runner a la Watson. This is just 100% dead wrong.
Didn't watch much video on him huh?
11 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:This is one of those threads that keeps me coming back.
Yea its like a lays potato chip.. cant just have one haha!
8 hours ago, The Jokeman said:Again it's how you define a QB. If ask me to rate the QBs listed I'd go with Marino, Cunningham, Brad Johnson and Dilfer. Yet Cunningham was far from elite. As I'd couple him in with Andy Dalton today. As both at times can be above average but not elite.
Elway and Marino made the HOF, Randall didn't. Care to tell me why?
Interesting question with an easy answer. Randall was a choke in playoff games.
7 hours ago, ngbills said:So much more to the comparison of college stats between guys. Look at the list below of top 20 passing seasons. How many of these guys had good NFL careers?
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-yds-player-season.html
1 B.J. Symons* 5833 2003 Texas Tech 2 Graham Harrell* 5705 2007 Texas Tech 3 Case Keenum* 5671 2009 Houston 4 Case Keenum* 5631 2011 Houston 5 Colt Brennan* 5549 2006 Hawaii 6 Ty Detmer 5188 1990 Brigham Young 7 David Klingler 5140 1990 Houston 8 Graham Harrell* 5111 2008 Texas Tech 9 Derek Carr* 5083 2013 Fresno State 10 Paul Smith* 5065 2007 Tulsa 11 Brandon Doughty* 5055 2015 Western Kentucky 12 Patrick Mahomes 5052 2016 Texas Tech 13 Bryant Moniz* 5040 2010 Hawaii 14 Case Keenum* 5020 2008 Houston 15 Kliff Kingsbury* 5017 2002 Texas Tech 16 Matt Johnson* 4946 2015 Bowling Green State 17 Tim Rattay 4943 1998 Louisiana Tech 18 Mason Rudolph* 4904 2017 Oklahoma State 19 David Carr* 4839 2001 Fresno State 20 Brandon Doughty* 4830 2014 Western Kentucky Well.. The book is not written yet on Keenum thus cant really answer that really well now can we?
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10 hours ago, John from Riverside said:
I do wonder if that is the real reason behind some of these posts......they dont want to say it but they think drafting Lamar Jackson means retaining Tyrod Taylor as the bridge.
And that may wel end up happening......or maybe the bills dont view TT and Lamar Jackson as all that similar in that one actually throws the ball and is willing to do it from the pocket......and the other has hit his ceiling as a quarterback and it wasnt good enough.
Or...maybe we really did offer a 2nd rounder for Foles with the intention of drafting Lamar Jackson....maybe the cost of trade up was just too much or other teams had more ammunition because they are slotted lower in the draft.....who knows.
I do know this....Tyrod is NOT good enough to get where we want to go.....and even if he was retained and Lamar drafted who is to say Lamar does not a. beat him out in camp or b. Replace him later in the season.
You gotta think about the way this might play out people....it IS possible.
I wonder to.. Fact of matter is.. people can come on here and say "I know Jackson will be better" and to make such statements is stupid.. you don't know football to make statements like that.. I do not Link Tyrod to Lamar nor would I want Tyrod as a mentor. Jackson wishes to be a throw first QB thus you need a throw first QB as mentor.
I totally agree with everything said here.
I would like to think looking at the numbers that Lamar will be a bit better then Tyrod but we will see.
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4 hours ago, cd1 said:
Nick Foles...
we are not getting Foles.. Give it a rest
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1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:
If you like Watson...then you should have no problem with Jackson.
Watson has a weaker arm...and much like Jackson is a last resort runner except when it is designed.
and you have NO idea if he will bust......none.
Jesus....learn football
Preach on.
1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:You are such a fricken schmuck.....and just eliminated yourself from any real credibility
agreed
1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:If you like Watson...then you should have no problem with Jackson.
Watson has a weaker arm...and much like Jackson is a last resort runner except when it is designed.
and you have NO idea if he will bust......none.
Jesus....learn football
Correct.. unless you have this nice globe sparkly thing that tells the future... no one knows.
1 hour ago, Tatonka68 said:Why are you stereo Typing ME? I like Deshaun Watson, He is a pocket passer and Bills should of drafted him. Jackson is NOT a NFL caliber QB. Do have a man crush or something? Jackson is a BUST.
Cause its how you put things out there.
53 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:If it makes you happy the Bills can keep Joe Webb on the practice squad. LOL
and.. this is funny lol
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17 hours ago, dlonce said:
I’m sorry everyone. I must reply.
I pointed out skin color because it’s been mentioned on this board numerous times in rebuttals that skin color is a reason to compare. I wanted to qualify my statement otherwise.
you then chastise me about this and point out that all people are of color. This is true,but,you have no idea who you speaking to.
i am a man who was raised in the 60s, where we were referred to as “colored” and “people of color.”
Then you chastise another poster incorrectly using the words “race card.”
Get off your politically correct high horse. You have no idea what I’ve been through in my life with regards to race.
You have no business harassing me about this topic at all.
Here are the facts.
Tyrod is mostly a one read QB who runs when his receiver isn’t open
Jackson is a one read QB who runs when his receiver isn’t open, PERIOD,Got it?
A person compares both and they are a racist,a person qualifies their comparison to state race isn’t an issue and your a racist.
Are you a millennial?
politically correct horse? This isn't the 60's.. Stick to the facts and keep politics and race out of it.
I was born in 69 if you must know and you say "Aperson compares both and they are a racist a person qualifies there comparison to state race isn't and issue and I am a racist" When did I ever bring up race other then to slam you for bringing it up in the first place.. Don't blame me for doing what is right.. You can be politically incorrect and yet keep race out of it. and just cause I compare the 2 makes me an racist? I am not a racist and your an idiot.
17 hours ago, Scorp83 said:I'm with you on everything else. Except for Jackson being a one read QB... I think he's more then that.
you would be with him cause you were the other idiot that brought up race in these forums.
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1 hour ago, Scorp83 said:
Those 4 points are not valid... fine let's take the race out of it... Going off his collegiate experience, he's probably the best prospect in the draft... his skill set says he will do great in the NFL. I knew for a fact that DeShaun Watson was going to do great... our GM didn't think so...so he traded out of the pick...& I'm just a normal guy working a regular job. Did i get lucky? NO ... i knew Wentz was going to be good... before the message board got shutdown... I was on there banging the table for Wentz... but everyone was high on Rex & Tyrod.
Jackson is a great prospect, he's better then Watson...& People tried to compare him to Taylor...WHY?!?! It's hard to not bring race in it because Watson & Jackson are clearly not Taylor... & proved in college that their not Taylor. The same 4 points you used... can be said about the other 5 top QB's... but yet you still get people in the Bills community that calls him "Tyrod Jackson" ???
It's getting old... they both different... & Jackson is a legit weapon... who's way ahead of alot of rookies... is he right for the Bills? IMO No... we can't wait on him to fully develop. I'd rather have Rosen... but wouldn't be mad if we drafted Jackson.
Oh & just because I'm new on the board doesn't mean I'm clueless to this. I was on the Bills Message board since 2004! I'm not some young guy that woke up & decided to get on here.... I'm a vet & been a Bills fan for over 33yrs! So just because you see that someone is new...dont assume they're clueless
I stopped reading after the bolded.
1 hour ago, Scorp83 said:Totally agree! Well said sir... well said!
"Am I SUPPOSED to hate him because he is a threat to run? To people understand that this forces defenses to play him differently....that they will formulate their defense to "make him a quarterback" and the kid actually can throw from the pocket?"
Excellent post!
By the way I never said I hate him cause of a run threat or love him because he has a run threat. I am in the middle on Jackson. I don't think you can sit him for 1 year and play him. I think you either have to sit him 2-3 years then play him or play him right away to work out all the other issues he has.
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16 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:
If people can't see the difference in Taylor & Jackson then their blinded by race. Just because he's black & can scramble doesn't mean they're the same player.
For starters...in his 2nd year Tyrod threw 2...count them....2 TD's...
Jackson won the heisman! Let that sink in...
Taylor went in the 6th rd, Jackson is projected Top 25...
They are on 2 different playing fields... it's like me saying...dont draft Rosen because he's Trent Edwards 2.0 ??
AGAIN! why bring race into the conversation? I told the last idiot that brought up race.. most good human beings don't give a crap if your black white yellow pick blue purple.. STOP BRINGING RACE INTO THE CONVERSATION! It doesn't belong in these forums. No one here gives a chit about race. get over yourself/it.
this is your 11th post? disgraceful!
We are here to judge our opinion and talk about talent.. NOT TALK ABOUT RACE...
another idiotic post goes down in the books.
1. Because people are worried about another Run first QB that we don't want.
2. Because he is very raw talent.
3. Just because Tyrod was 6th round pick... means NOTHING. its about what you do on the field.
3. you have no clue how he will produce in the NFL just like any other GI Joe here.. We are going with gut feelings and we have our right to it..
Knock it off with the race card..
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Orlando, Jackson, Darnold, any TE or Running back
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2 hours ago, starrymessenger said:
I think Jackson would be best served by going to a team that had the coaching ability and the luxury of developing him as a pocket passer rather than to a team looking for short term gain and using him as a running QB in an offence based on college concepts featuring lots of RPO. Given that he has been schooled in a pro-style offence it would be a step backwards IMO. Everybody knows he can help himself with his legs. The real question is whether he can continue to show progress executing from the pocket at the next level. If he can do that so that he is not scheme dependant he will be a much better QB, the kind Beane has said he likes. Personally I think there's a decent chance that he can do that and that's why I think he is a good prospect, not because of his running ability. His skills as a runner are very nice to have but he will never be able to run in the pros the way he did in college obviously, so in weighing him as a prospect you really have to consider whether he can develop as a passer. That's also why I don't think he needs to be groomed behind a player like Tyrod. To the contrary I think he would be better off sitting behind a guy like Bridgewater.
Yep I totally agree.
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2 hours ago, elltrain22 said:
I don't think we have the cap space, nor the want to sign the soon to be highest paid player in the NFL. The Minnesota QB's are a HUGE gamble IMO. Bridgewater is a huge injury risk, plus is he a much better option than TT?? Bradford, IMHO, is way beyond damaged goods, and Keenum could be a product of system & good WR's.
Its all about how the contract is set out.. everyone thinks you have to pay a person mass amount of $$ the first year.. simply not true.
I would take any of those QB's in a heart beat over Taylor every day and twice on Sundays...
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1 hour ago, NewEra said:
If this is pretty close to my perfect off season. Well done. It’s actually possible that something close to this happens. I love the draft picks. Norwell might be a bit of a stretch, he might be the highest paid guard in the league in a couple weeks.
IDK my perfect off season is getting Cousins or one of the guys from Mini. and build around him in draft.
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Looks like Case is on his way out of MIN. .. IDK if I want to draft or FA now. lol
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8 minutes ago, dlonce said:
This has nothing to do with skin color(I’m a man of color). It has everything to do with having the same thing in common.
Truly gifted running QBs do not have the innate ability to read defenses properly. They are one read and take off. It’s difficult to teach them otherwise. This is Jackson as well.
I hope the Bills do not draft this kid. We need a pocket type passer or at least one that exhausts all reads before taking off(Mayfield).
Keep in mind that I totally agree with the first part of you comment..
BUT.
Why are you even bringing up skin color? Why are you choosing this topic to bring race into the conversation?
RACIAL comments have no room on these forums.. they really don't. Why even mention race? what point are you trying to prove? you think the majority care if you are white, black, purple, pink, gold, red?
You say this has nothing to do with race yet YOU SAID IT!
Pretty pathetic if you ask me and I highly suggest you edit your post..
and by the way.. EVERYONE on earth are men/woman of color......
Enough said.
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So head over to youtube an watch this video if you have not you should before making final judgement on Lamar.
Notes from video.
1. Took him a bit of time to get warmed up but that's normal.
2. Big stride is a good sign.
3. Note with the throw that came short. That is an int all day long in NFL and they note "he does that a few times a game in college"
4. 50-60 yard throw looked effortless.
5. I saw good sideline passes but a little bit high... But not for Benjamin. That is right where you want it for him.
6. Hook throw a little low but low is better then high on that type of pass.
7. 5:00 NICE PASS! WR ran an in and out and he lead him on that pass and WR has plenty of room to run down field. I have not seen Tyrod be able to make those throws with any consistency.
8. Then throws a ball off stride and WR had to wait for it.
Accuracy Accuracy and more Accuracy issues.. and he was not under pressure. IDK I think he is a long term prospect and not a short term franchise QB.
Watch Rosen and Darnald. They miss a ball and almost laugh at it where Jackson gets kind of a flustered look.
I say no to Jackson in first round.
Then again.. Jackson Made Rudolph look like crap on short throws.
Darnold chose not to throw a ball
And I now have just as many mixed feelings on Rosen..
who am i to judge lol
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19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:
I'm really getting annoyed by the "spin doctors" here. I sat there and watched QB combine workouts. I saw a deep R throw by Allen where the WR had to adjust further to the R and the ball was too long for him went off his hands. They were all over "strong effortless throw". Similar throw by Jackson where the WR had to adjust but the ball was caught "poor throw, excellent catch". I'm nowhere near a pundit when things are moving full speed, but when I have tape and can back up and replay, even I can "get it" and I swear, if you turned off the sound and cut out the QB, you could not distinguish one as great and one as "poor". I saw some pretty pinpoint throws by Jackson, and some bad ones - but I saw a too-high throw from Mayfield where they're all to the WR "you're 6'2" you got to catch that" and with Jackson all about the bad throw (it was similarly overthrown).
Again, this is not to puff up Jackson and say he's great, but I think if you shuffled some of the throws (and didn't say who the QB was) the pundits would be all confused about what to say on each throw just like the famous "oenophile blind taste test" . It's very annoying to folks like myself who are trying to educate ourselves and improve our football knowledge.
I liked what I saw of Jackson's footwork and timing in his drops because in the bits of game film where he's throwing from under center, it did NOT look good - his timing was off and he just stood there at the top of his drop - awkward. He looked much better and smoother (from the footwork perspective) yesterday.
I really like your take on this and agree with your assessment. I more wish Lamar was a second round prospect then a first but answer me this.. If all we have is Taylor, We don't move up and he is best QB Available, do we take him?
19 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:Jackson took very few snaps from under center ( the least of the " big five" I believe ) and if you watch his footwork he does throw from a very narrow " base". That puts too much of the throw on the upper body , but I think this is correctable. Jackson certainly needs to improve his footwork, but so does Mayfield. LJ represents many unknowns, but his talent makes him much more intriguing to me than the " known entity " that Tyrod is. Time to move on, and I think Jackson is a better prospect than Taylor ever was.
It is correctable, but that doesn't mean it gets corrected. I think Jackson can be slightly more consistent then Taylor.. Is that worth a draft spot to you or do you want better?
18 hours ago, McBean said:It sounds like I’m in the minority, but I would be livid with the selection of Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen.
Allen flat out sucks. If he didn’t throw a ball 90 yards he would go undrafted. EJ Manuel was better than him in college and looked how that worked out.
Jackson scares me because he knows he can run. IMO, that’s going to be a crutch he will lean on in the NFL and will use his legs more than his arm.
I want a traditional pocket passer that sits in the pocket and barely runs.
1. Rosen
2. Mayfield
3. Rudolph
4. Darnold
Get me one of the 4. Just say NO to Jackson or Allen.
Look.. I have to believe in the system. And if in this system they pick one of those 2 then I will fall behind them like it or not cause if I don't believe then what is the point of watching it?
18 hours ago, jmc12290 said:It's easier to grow your game with another year in college than it is in the NFL.
Yep I agree with growing your "game" but that doesn't mean it translates into NFL caliber.
21 minutes ago, njbuff said:I could go along with this.
Plus Jackson is light years more talented than Taylor.
Light years? I wouldn't say that he has not even taken a snap in the NFL yet.. you cant say that.
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1 minute ago, Scorp83 said:
He isn't Tyrod Taylor... he's better then Taylor. He doubles Tyrod in every aspect of his game. You know who doesn't have confidence? Tyrod! Everything about Jackson is better then Tyrod.
Next time you edit quote please just put what I said to you cause you make it look awful...
So I want your Crystal ball that this guy has not played a day in the NFL and you know by fact he will be better then Taylor.. You can think he will be better but you cant be blatant about it
1 minute ago, aristocrat said:Yea but Jackson put up some eye popping offense just himself.
and that's why I feel Jackson is a 2nd round prospect and Taylor went in 6th.. Key word here though.. Prospect. You still have to out weigh the risk with reward
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7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:
To the OP
Thank you for taking the time to post the information.
Their styles are similar is that they are both duel threat qbs......I think were things get mucked down in debate are the things that are holding Tyrod back from actually being that qb that a team wouldnt part with for picks if they were offered.
I think that Lamar is more of what people are looking for that dont like TT more then they think.....but I also understand that we are presented with an opportunity to maybe get a pure pocket passer like Rosen and hope that he is a guy that can carry a team.
I present that a QB can carry a team in different ways as long as a defense cant bottle them up and force them to throw from a pocket when they dont want to....I think Lamar can actually do that......he scores more point on his arm which is evidenced in the stats that you have presented......but also gives the added element of forcing teams to be accountable for him as a runner.
I like him....I like Rosen better but I like him........
Oh your welcome, I think this Has come up quite often. Leadership part I agree. Lamar is a great leader in the huddle and as far as possible pocket passer? I think that if you are picking him up in draft hoping for that then your being risky. To be honest with you I like him to but damn. I am not going to be happy till he throws in the NFL lol..
5 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:Um... He is almost a Vick clone on the field. Look at that clip, he even has the same type of throwing style as Vick. I don't think he will be as good as Vick but as if you are comparing him to another player that has come before him, Vick is the comparison and they are more alike each other than 99% of comparisons you can make.
That said this clip is exactly why someone could get suckered into falling in love with a pretty bad passer in Jackson. He might make these plays from time to time, this one against one of the worst division 1 teams this year in North Carolina, but how does he look on his 15-20 yard out routes the sidelines. This clip is flashy, but it gives you little insight to the type of passer Jackson really is. Very misleading.
Yep totally agree and this is why I put Vic on my post cause he throws just like him. And yes. he was a good COLLEGE player in one of the worst divisions. On that note I do like him but not in first round.
7 hours ago, Scorp83 said:But what none of your comments & the other posters YouTube clips doesn't show you is his leadership skills, & his ability to get better from 2nd to 3rd year. Something Tyrod failed to do. Jackson is growing & he got better as a thrower... & is still getting better.
I wanted DeShaun Watson for this exact reason... cause he was still growing. Taylor isn't growing, he has no more growth available. He is who he is now... Jackson isn't. Plus he can run our offense!
Lamar Jackson steals show at NFL Combine, meets with Buffalo Bills | NewYorkUpstate.com
http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/03/lamar_jackson_steals_show_at_nfl_combine_meets_with_buffalo_bills.html""When asked which teams he met with, the Buffalo Bills were the first team he mentioned. Jackson ran the Erhardt-Perkins offense at Louisville. That happens to be the same offense Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll is scholed in. Jackson is more than confident he can command that offense in the NFL, too."
Nuff said...
Every QB out of the NFL that is drafted early has same confidence.. Confidence means nothing if you cant put up the numbers. I think he is a risk.
1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:2018 “Let’s be offended by everything”
Grab a tissue, I’m sorry he runs and throws bombs like Vick.
Read this Simool
Then hold this
TY TY TY. Totally agree but he wont get it lol..
1 hour ago, 1billsfan said:Not just better than Rudolph. The more I watch all of these QBs, the more I think Jackson will be the best of the bunch.
He does have NFL passing skills, he's extremely elusive, huge play making ability, very likable guy, he will have a ton of support, the Bills have staff from Carolina so they will know what to do with him to have him succeed.
I think that draft season becomes like an echo chamber where everyone wants things to stay as they were, QBs should stay in the boxes/labels that they were deemed to always be as a QB. I heard some media guys saying that Jackson looked sketchy as a passer in the passing drills. I didn't see that. Yes there were a few misfires, but he showed me that he can make effortless NFL throws. Dude has an arm, and he's not afraid to use it as seen in college.
There's something about each guy at the top of the QB rankings that just doesn't feel right. To me, Jackson just looks like he's going to be a star and everybody is missing it just like they did with Watson.
I think your one of the few that feel this. He has an arm with accuracy issues. He played in a weaker conference. But I love your confidence and thanks for replying.
50 minutes ago, aristocrat said:Vick didn’t throw or run for near what Jackson did.
Right but he was in a different conference. you guys got to remember this.
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Just now, simool said:
You posted back at me Sally. I don't have time to banter with tools.
Sally? lol give it a rest
Baker Mayfield and Johnny Manziel
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
you didn't read my post did you. I have seen MANY people on these forums compare the 2.. and not off the field, on the field. I think you should check it at the door.