warrior9

Wilson did not make Marshawn or Golden Tate or Zach Miller great. marshawn was always very good. Golden Tate left Seattle and has been great, still. Zach Miller went to Seattle after being a second round draft pick. Yeah, that was the a very easy and stretched out talent pool lol

Mahomes, Wentz, Carr, Goff, Mayfield? Maybe switch Wentz and Carr. You gave a top 5 QB, a few middling ones and a horrible QB, that's not really a test?

Didn't say that... It doesn't hurt to be surrounded by talent, though. So you think JA is a bottom 7 QB in the NFL because of Passer Rating? is that what i'm gathering?

Now can we compare supporting casts?

That's short sighted. You HAD to play the run against Seattle, you didn't have to against this team. It was a MAJOR focus of that Seattle team which opened up the passing game. Defenses played that team way different than they would this Bills team. Again, it's all in fun speculation. Again, we'll never know but I don't think many QBs did more with less than Josh this year.

Thank you, that's all this thread was trying to suggest.

It's not when all things considered man. Drops, O-Line, RB, etc. I'm not sure if there are stats out there from 2013 about the drops of all teams but I would bet RW didn't have nearly the drops JA did.

Wait, my comparison is not suggesting that he WILL. It's suggesting that he CAN. It's refreshing to know we have a guy on an upward trajectory with similar stats in year two to a top 3-5 QB... that's all.

?

Baldwin and Tate 1000% start over Brown and Bease. They’ll have their time on the field but those two would probably be 1 and 2. I think ultimately brown and Baldwin would split #2 reps in terms of throwing style. The point is trajectory. Was RW throwing with that much anticipation etc in his second year? Again, he is also 2 years older than Josh in his second year. I posted this because it’s refreshing to know that if we’re patient and let this guy learn and get him some weapons, he can be a stud. they aren’t similar running styles, obviously. They both scramble and make plays off of that... it’s a huge part of both of their games. There is a lot of similarities in how they’re successful. if JA had Marshawn and that line, what could he have done? Obviously we’ll never know but it’s fun to speculate. I think Josh has very very good numbers with an improved line and RB next year.

Luke is trying to take care of his chickens and his bread and his mentals.

Thanks, I was going to ignore that.

I honestly don't think league rankings here mean anything.... leaders vary from year to year as does the field. I'm saying in pure stats, they aren't far off...... that's literally all i'm saying. And RW had quite a bit more help. literally not even close.... there's a full season of stats that are very comparable, not someones ability to jump in shorts.

Russel Wilson MAY have got help from a great offensive line, better weapons, one of the best defenses of our generation and ....... Marshawn Lynch? Maybe that's a reach, though?

Ummmm because we have a QB that has similar if not identical stats to a QB that is currently a top 3 NFL QB and people think Josh isn't the guy. Developmentally we have a QB that seems to be on track for the first time in a decade plus. SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH stop it.

I think i'm trying to prove that they are literally comparable in their style of play... especially at that point in their career.

I do not disagree in the slightest. I'm doing this to further prove that I believe we have our guy. I don't think many people do(or could have done) more with less than Josh did.

The Tannehil one is debatable .. I think DH led that team to the play offs. But no, I get it. I agree, I think next year will be a big year for Josh.

Yeah I mean, Golden Tate is a GREAT football player and Doug Baldwin was a very solid NFL receiver for years. I think this is very telling on how well Josh actually played this year with the limitations of his surrounding cast. Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin would be #1 and 2 on this team. Zach Miller would be our starting TE. 8 in the box would make throwing easier, which is my point. Teams stacked the box and put 8 in the box and played man against us (the good defenses that could) because our receivers couldn't get a step on the DBs

So Russel's 12 fumbles pass the eye test but Josh's 14 are worrisome? Russel was throwing to a much more well rounded group of receivers as well. As great as Smoke was this year, it's still his 3rd team in 3 years (or 4). The drops of our receivers sky rocket Josh's completion percentage too. I did the math and it came out that even if our receivers caught half of the drops, he's at 61% completion percentage.

I don't disagree, first Patriots game and Ravens game were both W's if he hits 2 of his over throws

I saw a thread that compared Josh to all second round QB's in the last 15 years or so but I wanted to focus on Russel Wilson because I think they have some similarities and I think Russel Wilson is a gamer and an elite QB. Both are considered mobile passers. Both had great defenses. I think this bodes well for us because Josh is also 2 years younger than RW was in his second year. What's interesting: They both had a ton of fumbles. Almost identical # of total TD's, yards, INTs, and both relied on the defense quite a bit. Josh took less sacks but had ~5% lower completion percentage. Josh in year 2: Passing: Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV 2019 23 BUF QB 17 16 16 10-6-0 271 461 58.8 3089 20 4.3 9 2.0 146 53 6.7 6.7 11.4 193.1 85.3 45.8 38 237 5.72 5.71 7.6 4 5 11 Rushing: Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD 1D Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD 1D Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 2019 23 BUF QB 17 16 16 109 510 9 42 36 4.7 31.9 6.8 109 4.7 510 9 14 RW year 2: Passing: Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV 2013* 25 SEA QB 3 16 16 13-3-0 257 407 63.1 3357 26 6.4 9 2.2 157 80 8.2 8.5 13.1 209.8 101.2 66.8 44 272 6.84 7.10 9.8 3 4 16 Rushing: Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD 1D Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD 1D Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 2013* 25 SEA QB 3 16 16 96 539 1 31 27 5.6 33.7 6.0 96 5.6 539 1 12 That year, Russel Wilson went to the Pro Bowl. The national narrative is Josh is not a good QB. He had the second most drops in the NFL, he had a rookie TE and RB, and an underwhelming receiving core (although, I do love what Smoke brings). Russel WIlson has Golden Tate, Marshawn Lynch, Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kerse (eh), and Zach Miller. --I think this can shed some positive light on Josh's future potential. It excites me to know he's in good company and I'm excited to see what he can do with some more weapons!

I 100% agree with this. This was because of Daboll's love for running Frank Gore with a fullback and 3 TE's on 2nd and 8

I think this is as under the radar as it will get with national media and Bills fans. Josh was great on 3rd an 9+ this year. In terms of the jet sweep, I wonder if they ran that more just because of our personnel options and being a speedy WR corp or if it's something Daboll just really believes should be ran.

I hope Dawson Knox turns into that. Freak athlete, tall, can block (got better as season went on). If he can clean up his routes and become reliable catching easy passes, he'll be a phenomenal player for us. He's show he can make the great/ acrobatic catches we just need to him to catch passes for 8 yards in his chest with the game on the line.