IgotBILLStopay

Thanks for replying. Can always dip into the injured / reserve for a mill or so. Also, we have so much cap space in 2019 - we dont have worry about the contracts in 2019. That said team has potential out after 2018 for both Thomas and Sanders. So they will only be a one year commitment (no 2019). http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/demaryius-thomas-6531/ http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/emmanuel-sanders-6590/

Where are you getting your numbers? http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/ This is what I see (it reflects Eric Wood's injury / retirement (so it should be the latest). It shows Bills have about 16 mill. I dont know if Josh Allen is included in the calculations. If he is not, we have 16 million. If he is not in the top 51, we should still have 16 mill - 3.9 mill +0.6 mill, which is about 12.7 mill. Even keeping aside 4 mill for injuries etc., we can sign an 8-9 mill player. And we do not really have top worry about the next year. What am I missing?

The real mistake was not picking up the Watkins option. We coulda had him this season at 1 year 11 mill when the market value for him was 3 yr 48 mill. BTW, I dont really have a problem with the trade to the Rams - I think we got a fair return (Gaines + second rounder) - though the linked trade with the Eagles for Matthews (for Darby + 3rd rounder) ) was, in retrospect, not so great.

FWIW, Corey Coleman of the Browns is the other trade candidate. I think he was handicapped by the Browns QBs and they drafted Anthony Callaway.

Have been thinking about the Bills' WR situation. AMong free agents, Dez Bryant is a pipe dream and Maclin and Decker are washed up. So, I was looking at release trade candidates. Denver is in serious cap trouble and needs to shed some salary. With two of the top three salary cap hits (Keenum is the third player in the group), Thomas and Sanders are the two candidates most likely to be released. / traded. Denver also drafted Courtland Sutton and Desean Hamilton in rounds 2 and 4 - so these two are serious candidates to be let go.

Now any chance, the appeals process drags on and he misses week 8?

I agree. IMO, Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, Smith and Edmunds were the cant miss non-QBs in the draft. And getting Edmunds at 16 is likely the biggest steal since the others all went top 8.

Umm it was more like Mahomes + last years #44 + Tyrod Taylor (which became #65 this year) for Tre White, Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds (edit), but I am still OK with what we got - given we also got a top 5 QB and a promising backup with starter potential at QB for cheap.

You are likely a lot younger than me

Several - but just sticking to this regime - I guess not picking up Sammy Watkins option. He signed a 3 yr 48 mill contract this offseason and we could have had him at 11.2 million. I am at peace with everything else that was done with Sammy Watkins post not picking up the option - the trade to the Rams etc. I just feel that if the option had been picked up - we could have gotten more compensation from Rams. I am also a bit pissed at the compensation we got from KC for Ragland. Notwithstanding the above, I think very highly of what McBeane have done.

Little Tre (like Little John from Robin Hood)

Notwithstanding my Buffalo rimmed glasses, it is not clear hue Jackson is a good enough coach in my mind to pick the Browns here. McD, on the other hand made the playoffs with a lot less last year.

Now you missed #22. LOL. It is really White for #22, #56, #65 and #96 with the assumption that the Bills go for Phillips at #53 instead of a later pick. Sorry couldnt resist making that correction.

Great job thinking through each pick possibility. Much as I like Tre that would have been the dream draft to beat every other dream draft. You right Wynn in round 1 makes more sense than CB at 22 given how the draft played out.

Alrighty then let's agree to disagree for now and hope that Tre makes the next 10 pro bowls and leads us to a SB win.

So I said rookie deals use less cap in early years and more cap in later years. You disagree with me but How is it different from what I said? I was only trying to point out that your estimate of 4.8 million per year is likely 3.2 million this year. Next year on we have so much cap space that 3-5 million will not be an issue. Not to mention you will save another 10+ million in year 4 on the rookie CB relative to White. Also getting Kirk with a second round salary will be way cheaper than Dez Bryant, no? Bottomline - the whole rookie scale is the best value for money deal in the NFL. if you are arguing draft capital is more expensive cap wise relative to keeping players - that just wont cut it. The difference in salary between picks 4 and 7 and 12 and 14 and even assuming we get Philips at 53 instead of 96 are far smaller relative to the long term cap savings. If cap savings are your argument, the suggested trade which nets more draft capital is way way more cap friendly than not doing the trade. Even conceding that in the alternate scenario Bills will take Phillips at 53 instead of 96, which is by no means a given - see previous post about BIlls interest in Kirk - What happened to #56? Dont we get that too under the suggested plan?

Thank you for taking the time to respond. But there are some problems with that analysis. I am sure the Bills were high on several players other than Phillips who went between 53 and 96. And you forgot #96 in your comparison of scenarios. The correct comparison is to keep Philips at 96 and leave 53, 56 and 65 open. Your cap calculations are not right. Cap in early years on rookie deals is less than later years. Also the replacement first round quarterback will have an extra year on the rookie deal which itself is worth at least 10 mill. That itself will dwarf any cap ramifications regarding rookie deals. Everyone knows first round rookie deals are the best value for money in the NFL. Are you really arguing that Tre (and I love having him) is worth more than a first round CB replacement with an extra year plus #53 plus #56 plus #65? If so, great. Regardless, I do hope Tre goes to every Pro Bowl in the next 10 years and leads to the promised land. But at this point, as an armchair GM, which side of the trade do you see value? The more I analyze, the more surprising Dorsey's pick of a CB at 4 is. My only point is that the trade I suggested is not really as bad a trade from the Bills point of view as you made it sound, no?

Summarized perfectly

Thanks for making my point. There are at least 10 posters in this thread who have argued that Tre >>>Ward. So if even some part of the Cleveland brass agrees with them they should be willing to consider Tre In exchange for the 4th pick which was Ward. And as you pointed out, we make out like bandits in terms of draft capital. And yet a majority of the posters say they would not make the trade from a Bills point of view. It is another way of saying Dorsey's pick at 4 was such a gigantic reach. I was just trying to take advantage of that reach from the Bills side.

No no. I saw from your summary that you got it. I just appreciated you taking the time to go back and reading it.

Thanks for taking the time to re-read that thread. I appreciate it.

Sigh. I saw that people are mis-characterizing what I posted in this thread. I also understand we all love Tre. The trade, despite my inability to explain it well actually has a bunch of nuances and more well thought out than a cursory reading would indicate. For the last time, I am not suggesting a Ward for Tre swap. It was an attempt as an armchair GM to take advantage of the Browns unexpectedly reaching for a CB at #4. If we give them an upgrade at CB (yes White is an upgrade over Ward) and gotten #4, we would have guaranteed Allen. Remember the Bills wanted Allen enough to offer way more to Denver for the #5 pick. Do you think Tre, as much as we like him, is worth #12, #22, #56 and change - which is what Beane agreed to with Denver? And with the way the draft unfolded, there was a good chance, we would have still gotten Edmunds and a first round talent at corner, not to mention two additional second rounders in the deepest draft we have had in years. Not to mention, since Beane knew Denver wanted him - maybe even pry a third rounder from Denver to let them select Chubb and we get Allen at #5. That said, I understand why Beane did not even attempt the trade. Dorsey was so secretive about his picks that everyone was surprised when he went CB. I have no doubt that if we knew Browns were going CB, Beane would have attempted this trade - just see what he was willing to give up for #5 and see if Tre (yes we all love him) is worth all that draft capital.

Thanks for this find Yolo.

Pls read that post and thread again. I didnt say trade Tre for Ward straight up. There are many more nuances there. I request you to take a minute to work out what I am suggesting. I was only trying to take advantage of the Browns reaching for a CB at #4 to save our two second rounders. Even with the nuances - I never said I preferred the trade. I was only asking if such a trade would be worth it?

Several of you are saying no bcos White is better than Ward. That is not in question at all. Question is - is White better than first round replacement ( Ward Minkah or Jaire) and Washington (WR) and Parker (OT) who we could have drafted with our second rounders.