SoCal Deek
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Posts posted by SoCal Deek
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I find this discussion interesting, but only to a point. Unless Beane has another card up his sleeve it appears we’re all about to find out if this strategy works. The Bills jettisoned their top two WRs in favor of cheaper, less experienced alternatives. Does having a franchise quarterback make up for the loss? Again, we’re going to know in just a few months. Somebody please remember to resurrect this thread in October.
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16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:
Sorry. I absolutely agree with that. And I know you didn't say crisis. But I thought it wasn't unfair to make that reach after you suggested that I seem to be suggesting that the Brit was making the squad. You knew I didn't say or mean that, and I knew that you didn't say or mean crisis.
On to football!
The Brit comment was obviously a joke. (Sarcasm is pretty tough on a message board.) I am however thinking that the Bills will take a step back this year…and I don’t think that’s the worst thing that could happen in the long run. I want to win, not just be forecasted for, a Super Bowl. I’m glad they’ve been forced to complete some much needed roster turnover.
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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:
I'm not praying that they can. Well, I'm really hoping Bishop can play. But other than that, I don't think the Bills' 2024 results depend on any of the other rookies. If Bishop is playing significant snaps by October, the Bills will be fine. If more the rookies can play, the Bills will be better off, but they aren't necessary.
They lost both starting receivers by design - neither was contributing enough to be significant losses to the team. They have a satisfactory replacement for their lost center. They may even be all set at safety without Bishop, but I'd rather see Bishop there.
There's an important point that I think people are missing. I think MVS said it when asked whether the Bills need him to be a leader, or something like that. He said something to the effect that neither this receiver room nor any other one needs to be rescued by anyone, because the talent in every receiver room is amazing. He said every team has real dogs, fighting everything. The difference is coaching, preparation, luck, etc. And QB.
I think it's true for multiple positions, not just receiver. The Bills have good players on the offensive line, and they will be successful whether or not VPG plays of not. The difference in quality of play between Morse and McGovern just isn't that significant. The difference in quality of play between Poyer and Hyde (2023 versions) and Edwards and Rapp just isn't that significant.
People don't want to believe it, but it's true. Yes, you'd rather have the better player at every position, but you can't have that. What you need are good NFL players at every position, and you build from there. The Bills are in that position, so they aren't dependent on all their rookies playing immediately.
All I've said is that I think that the Bills drafted a lot of guys who look like they could player sooner. That's a good thing, but it doesn't mean the Bills have a crisis if they don't.
I think you misunderstood. I never said there was a crisis Shaw. I only said that without seeing any of the rookies play a single down of professional football it’s impossible to know how they’ll fair. That’s it.
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15 minutes ago, Doc said:
The guys who are gone weren't enough to get us over the hump. And it's not a reboot, it's a reload. The Bills are the class of the AFC East until proven otherwise.
That’s exactly what I said. They weren’t enough to get us there. Now whether you wanna call it a reload or a reboot is essentially semantics. Notice that neither of us used the word rebuild.
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55 minutes ago, Doc said:
Fair enough. I just don't believe that they are relying on any rookies, with the possible exception of Coleman, but do believe that probably 2 will start.
Are they ‘relying’ on them. No. But this was a draft of need, not luxury. And I’m betting next year will be the same. As I’ve said many times they swung for the fences and missed. Now they need a reboot to get us over the hump and back to the promised land. It’s a process. 😉
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1 hour ago, NewEra said:
People here. Many are hating on our WRs
Hating them? No. Questioning the overall quality, absolutely…and rightly so.
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1 hour ago, Doc said:
They cut Morse and traded Bates before the draft so that tells me they feel that McGovern is ready to step in at C and Edwards is ready to step in at LG. If VPG can win the starting job and put McGovern back at LG and Edwards as a backup, so much the better. I just want a true competition for the LG and C spots.
As for the safeties, Hyde and Poyer were getting long in the tooth and their best days are behind them. The Bills know DBs so I'm not overly concerned. Again if Bishop wins a starting job, so much the better.
Now at WR there's some concern. I like Samuel replacing Davis but replacing Diggs will be tough. Although it seems like they'll be going with the philosophy of spreading the ball around.
Not sure where this discussion is going Doc. I simply reacted to Shaw’s post that the Front Office drafted guys who can play right now. My comment was that they didn’t have a choice. The Bills are in the position of turning over their roster due to age and salary cap. It don’t see how that makes the Front Office geniuses nor do I have any idea how anyone can say that our rookies are ready to go. We all hope they are but we definitely do not know that they are.
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20 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:
looks to be $10M/4
A bargain then! 👍
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So what will the Bills pay Coleman?
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Can the Bills 2024 passing game perform up to recent seasons levels? Sure….i guess so. But looking at the list in the opening take, I only see a second year TE as having much of a track record. Do we want to see Shakir step up? Sure! Do we pray Knox will become more of a receiving threat? Sure! Do we hope Cook has learned how to catch the damn ball? Yep! Do we have our fingers crossed that Coleman is indeed the diamond in the rough that the Bills appear to think he is? Again….we sure do! But to look down the current list of available weapons and suggest that the Bills are locked and loaded is ridiculous.
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17 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:
Right about one thing, it was a snarky post but the rest of it is ridiculous. You appear to have this agenda that the Bills have lost so many players they have little left.
No the "English guy" was not drafted because they need players to "play NOW".
If we drafted him to "play NOW" we would not have drafted a guy that has never played football. He doesn't count against the 53 man roster and we can carry him "risk free" for a while as he learns the game/
I thought it was an excellent risk adjusted gamble with very little downside but he is huge, fast and seems excited to play football.
Just trying to counteract the seemingly ‘Mc Beane can do no wrong’ take that permeates Shaw’s homerism. Did the Bills draft a bunch of players? Yep! Do they have the luxury of drafting purely for depth right now? Nope! Is the current cupboard completely bear at every position? Nope….but when you’ve lost BOTH your starting WRs, BOTH your starting Safeties, and your starting Center all in one offseason, we all better pray that at least a few of these rookies can indeed play…and right now. Is there an alternative? Nope!
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It’d be interesting to see what would happen if the Coach could trade a timeout for a penalty (outside of the final two minutes of a half).
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As a USC alum I watched a lot of him over the last two years. He can be extremely reckless with the football. That simply isn’t going to cut it in the NFL. He’s a human highlight reel but sometimes for the OTHER team.
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13 hours ago, Shaw66 said:
My point was that they all are guys who've given good indication that they could play early. I won't be surprised if any of them is starting by mid-season, because they've all demonstrated some important characteristics. As someone said, VPG is a two-time all SEC guy, two-time national champion - I'm not going to be surprised if he starts. But he won't start out desperation on the Bills part - they will be fine with McGregor. Bishop is a highly rated guy, exactly in the mold of McDermott safeties, so I won't be surprised. But the Bills have two NFL veteran safeties, and Bishop won't start unless he's good enough. And Coleman, also highly rated, with a pretty interesting skill set. I won't be surprised. But no one will hand him the starting job. He has to beat out three or four credibly NFL veterans - Shakir, Samuel, MVS, and Claypool.
So, no, I'm not saying they're locks. I'm saying they have something about them, each of them, that suggests they could play early.
Even the English guy that’s never played football? Come on Shaw. Not trying to be snarky here but do teams often draft players that can’t play? Answer….no they don’t. But the difference is that right now the Bills need these players to be able to play NOW. As I said, we’re all going to find out together if these young guys can actually play at this level. We all hope they can.
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Three priceless memories:
1. Taking a photo for Jim Kelly and his family in front of Buckingham Palace.
2. Bumping into Dennis Shaw who had devolved into a recreation director at a local community center I was designing.
3. Learning that our daughter had met her future husband because he was wearing a Bills shirt while walking across their California college campus.
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3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:
Yes, that's correct. Coleman is a replacement, Bishop is a replacement, Van Pran-Granger is a replacement.
But the interesting thing about is that the replacements look like they can play now, not spend three years working their way into the league. If Coleman starts, it will be because he can do the job, not because there was no one else. Bishop too. And VPG. They each have to take the job from veteran players who have real NFL starting experience, but what's interesting is that they no one will be surprised to if they win the jobs.
For example, the Bills are not going to start VPG just because they project him as the center of the future. He'll start if he can do the job, and absent injury, only if he can do the job. McGregor won't be a failure at center - he might not be great, but he won't fail.
As I said, what's amazing about this draft is how many rookies can legitimately win significant playing time.
And, by the way, the fact that they have a fifth-rounder who may start on a Super Bowl contender is one of the core concepts McDermott explained when he first got here. He said the roster would improve every year, and he said he would build a culture where the veterans bring the young players up to speed quickly, so that you can get help out of the draft quickly. It's easier to put VPG into the starting lineup with Torrence and McGregor next to him than with whoever the guards were five years ago. If he has talent, the veterans will see it quickly, and they will work to integrate him. Same with Coleman, and Bishop (man, I wish they'd get Micah back on the field as a player or a coach, just to talk to Bishop every day). This is a championship caliber team, and young talent fits in more quickly than on a team that's perennially .500 or worse.
I have no idea how you get any of that before seeing any of these kids play a single down of professional football….but we of course all hope you’re right. My point is that the Bills don’t really have a choice right now. They’ve evolved into a new phase and we’re pretty much forced to get younger and cheaper….fast! They no longer have the luxury of signing strictly for depth like they’ve been doing in recent years. Will these young kids work out? Who knows? We’re all going to find out together. Because as it’s often said ‘necessity is the mother of invention’.
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2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:
Well, I haven't watched film or studied him, and I wouldn't know what to make of it if I did watch film, but I've been optimistic about him, too, since the day the Bills took him. All of what you say is what I've thought, especially the stuff about his college pedigree. There's little question that guys with good experience in elite programs like Alabama and Georgia can play, and play early, in the NFL. It was true to a lesser extent during Clemson's run, too.
On the other hand, as an abstract matter, no one thinks a fifth round rookie interior lineman to be a day one starter. If the only reason he fell to day three is that he has no position flexibility, well, then I'd say some GMs aren't thinking about their team well enough. Of course Beane, who needed an interior lineman, took a rotational DT in the third round instead of VPG, so he must have some questions about VPG, too.
It continues to amaze me that with almost every pick Beane got a player who has a seriously good chance of playing more than token snaps in his rookie season.
Isn’t that to be expected for the next couple of drafts while the Team digs itself out of the current cap challenge?
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Does it require a whole lot of practice to run out eight yards and turn around?
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4 minutes ago, Strethor said:
The chains don't spot the ball, if the technology would be used to help accurately spot this would be a huge deal
Or how about technology that actually projects the line to gain on the field so that the players can see it? Now that’d be cool!
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9 minutes ago, prissythecat said:
Isnt this the same guy who was showing off his bank account balance of 20 odd million just a few years back. How does one burn through 20 million that fast
Have you not been to a grocery store lately?
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Why would we want to improve on 7-9? It was our happy place. And remember, regardless of the QB, “it’s really hard to win in the NFL”! 😉
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As others have said, he’s literally who you think of when they describe an Offensive Center.
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I’m in the camp of let Josh work with these guys and we might just find out we have a much better WR room than any of us think. Over the last two seasons the Bills have taken a WR and a TE with their first picks. That’s hardly ‘ignoring’ the receiver position. In short….relax!
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No matter what stadium I visit we always try and sit in the lowest row possible of the upper deck, or as a second choice, the highest row in the lower deck.
THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Receivers are a Dime a Dozen
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
As I said, we’re all gonna see if it works.