HoofHearted

You can run outside zone from under center, in gun, or in pistol. The stretch path is taught when running it from under center or out of pistol. When in gun the back is even to slightly in front of the QB with his alignment and can hit it running horizontally immediately. Not sure what expert you were listening to, but maybe you misunderstood or they're misunderstood?

There's nothing to this. Both schemes can be equally effective out of gun or under center. Like I said I'll start working on breaking down our run game using the All-22 stuff here in a few weeks and make a post about it.

A lot of questions to work through here so bear with me in regards to the wall of text: 1. There are no formation limitations to running zone vs gap scheme run concepts - both can be run out of any personnel grouping you could possibly imagine. 2. Neither run scheme is tied to a QB being under center. 3. Every team in the NFL runs inside zone. If you want to be any good at running the football you have to be able to incorporate both zone scheme and gap scheme run concepts. Likewise you can't just run wide zone/pin and pull and have no interior run concepts in your playbook - it makes you too one dimensional. 4. I'd have to go back and re-watch the gap to see if the Chiefs made adjustments for the pin and pull stuff in the second half. Can't tell you off-hand if they did anything different. @Big Turk 5. Inside Zone is run best with a bunch of bruisers up front. We don't have those guys. The majority of our line is 310lbs. or under and are decent athletes for big men. Think of a college team like Oklahoma when Cody Ford played for them. They had a bunch of BIG dudes like him that could work on 45 degree angle tracks in unison and get push up front. Oklahoma also coupled their inside zone stuff with heavy doses of true GT (Guard/Tackle) Counter. Keeping defenses off-balance is the big thing and it doesn't feel like we have enough variation with our interior run schemes for defenses to respect anything other than inside zone (Once my season is over I plan on going to the All-22 and doing a full year assessment of our run schemes and do a write-up about it). Inside zone is not a complex concept as far as rules are concerned, but everyone has to be on the same page when defenses start moving up front. The beauty of the concept is that it creates natural cut-back lanes for backs and essentially has three different paths a back could end up taking based on what the defense does. Whereas if you run GT Counter you're back knows you're aiming point pre-snap is playside A gap and it won't change regardless of what the defense does. The flexibility of the scheme to make a defense "wrong" no matter what they do is what makes inside zone so dangerous and why so many teams try to base out of it. 6. Pin & pull has been around for forever. It's not a new concept. Go back and look at all the wing-t stuff that was run way back when and you'll see pin & pull as a staple of those offenses. 7. RPOs are, by design, created to have run action go one way and pass action go the opposite of the run action. That's why they work and why they are so hard to defend. It's very similar in concept to the zone read run scheme where you're basically forcing a defender to be wrong regardless of what he does. 8. The 5 yard outs to Diggs aren't actually RPO's - they're called "gift" routes. It's a pre-snap read where if you're given cushion pre-snap your route converts to whatever your "gift" concept is that week and it's thrown regardless of the called concept. You'll see this a lot on the backside of 3x1 (to the single receiver side).

This is 100% incorrect. People run RPO's all the time off of Power/Counter looks. Shoot we've run em this year.

It's still technically Wide Zone - just a different way of blocking it by blocking down to get the edge set and wrapping guys around to lead.

No, there's definitely other mobile QBs who teams actively try to contain within the pocket. The low box technique is what stands out most with how teams are playing Allen specifically. Teams are so afraid to give up easy rush lanes to him that they are essentially just maintaining the pocket and waiting for Allen to make a decision before they work pass rush moves. It worked really well for KC. Baltimore tried to do the same type of thing from what I recall when they were only rushing four as well.

Defenses are making a concerted effort this year more than I've seen in years past of ensuring they establish the box. You saw this time and time again this past week with KC, but it's been happening all year long. The contain players (outside rusher) have been purposefully setting a really high box as to not allow Allen the opportunity to escape outside the pocket. These rushers have been rushing more of a contain path (more vertical upfield) than a true pass rush angle would put you in to collapse the pocket. Because of this most teams are making their Low Box players (any interior rusher) an automatic low gear player. Essentially telling those guys to try and push to collapse the interior of the pocket, but not working true pass rush moves until Allen steps up within the pocket. With these interior rushers essentially being read players at this point there are able to have clear line of sight to Allen and put themselves in a more advantageous position to allow them to get hands on low trajectory balls. There were multiple times in the KC game Allen wanted to get outside the pocket, but because the high box player did such a good job of setting the box Allen could only step back up into the pocket, and was forced to deliver a ball from within it.

What makes you say that?

Is he though? He's our least refined corner right now out of Dane, Benford, and him imo.

Problem is we don't see a ton of man coverage - that's where you'll see the most adjustment from a defense vs the jet. NFL backers are too good to be fooled by the eye candy of McKenzie.

They ran out of hungover college kids to do their manual labor for them so they've out-sourced it to India for a while now.

PFF graders don't understand football. Those positions are out-sourced.

A defensive line that actually commands double teams which is allowing our linebackers to fly around.

This is what bugs me about fans. If it had scored a touchdown I assume everyone would be raving about what a great call it was.

It is though. You see it all game long.

Yes, that's the whole point of a Spy. Play low hole coverage until the QB leaves contain or steps up in the pocket then you're an add-on. Mahomes did neither.

Yeah, thought you were talking about the last play to Kelce. The play you're talking about there wasn't much else Milano could do, Mahomes stayed in the pocket so he was just in no man's land waiting for Mahomes to escape.

The reason it didn't work is because of the pre-snap motion. It was initially double coverage between Rousseau and Milano, but the motion out the backfield pulled Milano off the coverage on Kelce and put it on the back. Edmunds was then tasked with picking up the man coverage on Kelce while coming from across the field. Well designed scheme from KC against our man coverage. Allowed them to throw the hot. I'm with you though - they need to line up whoever their edge rusher is on that side of the field and run through Kelce's face at the LoS to at least throw off some timing.

Milano wasn't spying at the end of the first half - he was playing man coverage.

This is exactly what they did.

They did double him. With Tremaine and what looks like Rousseau.

Credit KC for a good scheme against our man coverage knowing we'd have to bump defenders with their motion to allow the hot to be thrown to Kelce.

Bad angle by Taron on the first play to McKinnon. Should have been tackled at the 37ish with about 7 seconds left.

It's just called an add-on. 🤷‍♂️ Don't know what else to tell ya here.

Depends on what the back does. If Singletary had released to his side he would have manned him.