HoofHearted

Buffalo brought Quarters coverage to the NFL - before it was a "college" coverage that'd never work in the NFL... oops. Now it's a staple of every defense in the league. This schtick is getting old...

The other obvious one was the second touchdown to Hurst when Poyer drove the fast screen to Chase and Hurst ran the stalk and go on him. There were multiple instances of us carrying a player too far vertically and allowing the easy catch and run underneath, or us not switching off routes in a timely manner in our Quarters looks. It was a bad day at the office all around.

Multiple coverage busts from the Safety position against the Bengals in addition to the very obvious lack of scheme knowledge that our depth safeties possessed cost our defense huge this year.

LOL. You need to actually watch the games, smart. Whatever "Jonny Page" is calling a 3-3-5 is really a four man front with a stand-up defensive end. Look at the alignments - the majority of the time they're in a 5-3-1-5 across the defensive line. By the way we run 4-2-5 personnel, not "4-3 Nickel" (I don't even know wtf this is). Additionally, I have no idea what you're trying to convey with your comments about Bad QBs vs. Good QBs and there being no keys but then all of sudden there are keys if you're good? If you'd like me to explain basic defensive principles to you I'd be more than happy to. Sounds like you're the one who needs to be educated, not me.

I’m sure Cover 1 did a good job; they usually do. It doesn’t change the fact that there isn’t a scheme in the world that will overcome getting physically dominated at the point of attack all game long. The bolded part made me laugh. Unfortunately, I feel like this is common thinking around here. Football has rules regardless of the scheme you’re in. This idea that players can just go out and “free-lance” is amusing to me.

Exactly my point. We won't be transitioning our personnel to fit another scheme under this regime.

I think there's value in the rotation. I'd like to see a better job as far as the management of it throughout games, but there's definitely value to doing it.

It doesnt change the problems. The problem is our rotational back-ups aren't very good. Those problems still exist - they are just less noticeable when there's actual competent players mixed into the rotation.

If those guys are all healthy we hold up better vs the run and force Cinci into more situations where they have to push the ball further down the field which in-turn gives our pass rush more time to get home. Unequivocally, yes. It would have been different. How much? Who’s to say.

We spend money in general on the DL. It’s not specific to the 1 tech. DaQuon being out certainly made a difference. Anyone playing hurt certainly makes a difference. My point was the 1 tech isn’t any more important to this scheme than any other defensive line position. The scheme in general is at its best (as are all defensive schemes) when you can generate pressure with 4. So DL in general is the cog that makes this thing go.

The 1 techn isn't a big cog in what makes this thing go. Miami and Cinci got push up front. It's as simple as that. We got out-physicalled.

I'm not in the building - I don't know specifically where the disconnect is. I know there's guys who are schematically being put in position to make plays and they aren't executing. Some of it can be traced back to technique issues, but some of it comes down to lack of size/strength/athleticism at times as well. Find me the scheme that works without defensive linemen though. I'd be all ears for that one!

I won't lol. Bills fans are frustrated with another early exit in the post-season and want to see heads roll. I get it. It's a lot easier to point fingers and blame than it is to admit we just got beat by a better more physical team on Sunday.

This scheme relies on penetrators up front. McDermott/Frazier want to create disruption/havoc by having guys get upfield as quickly as possible on the snap of the ball in order to reset the line of scrimmage. Ironically, for as much as gets talked about us playing soft and not aggressive, this is a very aggressive philosophy to have. However, it can be very boom or bust because of the different levels you are creating (unless the entire DL wins - then you're just blowing the entire thing up). The thought process behind it is that even if one guy wins and gets into the backfield, it'll cause confusion for the ball carrier and could disrupt the blocking scheme. However, it could also create wider gaps depending on who wins and what concept the offense is running. The penetration is suppose to draw double teams in order for the backers to remain clean, but if your penetrators aren't winning then teams will just chip and work up to the second level (this is what we say a lot of in years past and why DaQuon has been the best thing for Edmunds). Now with the 1 tech position you're referring to you absolutely need a bigger bodied guy because he will be doubled every single play, but in an ideal world they are still looking for a big athlete (Jordan Phillips) who is quick off the ball and get penetrate. That position isn't a huge cog in what makes the thing go though. As far as the motions - the four man front is a lot easier to manipulate with motions than the 3 man front because of the lack of balance. This is why you see Taron travel with motions so often even when we're in zone coverage because we're trying to avoid making him a box fitter in the run game (ideally he'd always be a C gap fitter - but this obviously isn't realistic). So yeah, we saw motions and movement, but nothing outside of what we've seen all season from opponents.

I never said it wasn't possible to turn things around in a season. I said HE couldn't. It would be a wholistic change in defensive philosophy/personnel. That takes a year or two just to get the right personnel in the building. I'm not even taking into account the time it takes to truly learn and feel comfortable in a new scheme.

I don't think a lot of people recognize how contingent that is on who you have in at those Safety positions. Losing Hyde hurt - there was considerable drop off with Jaquon Johnson in there - Demar started coming into his own when he took it over and you saw improvements in what we could call and how we could disguise looks each week but then he went out. If you're not a starter you're hardly getting any reps - it forces your hand to play more vanilla when you are having to start guys who don't regularly get reps throughout the week.

I don't agree with this. You can see the adjustments that were made throughout the game. We started off playing a lot of zone coverage and relying on our front 4 to get home. After those first two series we switched up to playing more Cover 1 and bringing an extra rusher. Started playing some 2 Man in obvious passing situations. Then switched to playing true 0 and bringing the house in key situations. None of it worked because we couldn't win up front. Adjustments are being made in every game - it's hard to recognize if you don't know what you're looking for - but they're definitely being made.

Our offensive line has been an issue all year long that has been masked somewhat by what Josh Allen can ad-lib. Our defensive line, for the most part are penetrators (smaller/agile/quicker), who do not hold up at the point of attack if they get engaged. Jordan Phillips, for example, has this persona on here of being a plugger - he's not - he's just a 340lb. penetrating defensive linemen who gets too tall often and gets moved because of it. Our guys admitted to it after the Packers game - they all have a pass rush mentality. Working pass rush moves vs the run gets you beat.

You are correct, there's been lots of money and draft capital spent on the DL over the years, and the issues haven't been resolved. That's where the gripes on this board should be. As far as the run defense during that span - those teams were all running a bunch of gap scheme against us and having a ton of success because our defensive line wasn't playing gap sound. They'd either get reached or run themselves out of the play by getting washed, but DaQuon was about the only one who consistently commanded a double team and was able to hold it. This was compounded by a bunch of young guys on the backend either not triggering fast enough or miss-fitting the run - mostly Bernard/Jaquan Johnson. I posted about a lot of the issues during that stretch. The rotation is a McDermott philosophical thing which I get in principle, but it seems like too many times in key situations our "dudes" aren't the ones out on the field.

I never said you needed all-elite defensive line. You do need to be able to hold up against the run and be able to rush the passer. When Daquon is not in we get gashed in the run game because we have guys who just penetrate and create lanes instead of holding gap integrity. When Von went out our pass rush disappeared. This isn't something earth shattering - we haven't been good in either category since Schwartz was the DC - but that's not a scheme issue it's a personnel issue. One simple thing - we got punched in the mouth and just took it. We lost the game in the trenches. There was zero push by either offensive or defensively line in the run game and we allowed the Bengals to affect our QB more than we affected theirs. This game isn't complicated. If you can't win in the trenches you can't win the game.

Which is exactly what we do now, but out of a four man front. Run a bunch of stunts/games up front and disguise (when we have our guys who have been in the system healthy) coverages on the back end. When those vets go out it limits what we can do as far as pre-snap alignments to disguise looks. Our defensive line is built around creating penetration, not holding gaps like Fangio's system requires. It would need to be a wholesale change in that room in order for his scheme to work.

That's every scheme my guy. If you don't win in the trenches you don't win period.

Again, the Eagles aren't having any problems running the same defensive scheme. The difference is they have DUDES across their defensive line and we don't.

1. We play way more 3 and Quarters than we do true Cover 2. 2. The Eagles aren't having any issues stopping good offenses running the exact same scheme. I get it, fans over-react and want to point blame at someone. We got beat in the trenches on both sides of the ball. You can't overcome that regardless of the scheme.

Good luck with that lol. You wanna talk about seeing fans pulling their hair out. 😂