[Dolphins @ Bills Postgame thread]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's literally a one read offense. That's the definition of gimmicky.

 

Take away the first read it's over for tua 

It's not, but if that's what helps you sleep at night... sure.

[Dolphins @ Bills Postgame thread]

5 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Their offense is gimmicky.

 

Disrupt the timing, no answers 

It's not a gimmicky offense at all and saying so kind of down plays how well we were able to play it. Everything the Dolphins do is designed to get defensive players eyes in the wrong spots and create numerical advantages through movement. This much motion is the future of offensive football.

[Elam a healthy scratch part deux (now part TRES) (now part QUATRO)]

19 minutes ago, BBFL said:

I get that. Which came to fruition. Was simply talking about being the backup boundary corner. Which Dane is right now; leading to the scratches. 

Dane's not a backup boundary corner though. That's my point. When Tre got hurt Benford came in for that Boundary spot, most likely out of necessity, but he's really a field corner as well.

[Frazier and/or his System hurt player development]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Feel free to merge this with the other Frazier thread but the more I watch this defense, and this team in general, has an edge to it. 
 

It’s pretty clear through 4 games that Frazier wasn’t running McDermotts defense and McDermott determined that his DC was holding some players back. 
 

The difference in play and aggressiveness from Ed Oliver, Greg Rousseau have been night and day. 
 

The development of AJ Epenesa who has been really good early this year, Terrell Bernard, Christian Benford look like pro bowl type players now. 
 

just a huge night and day difference with some of these guys from last year. 

Incorrect, it's the same system. McDermott is just a more aggressive play caller than Frazier. Same system, same concepts, different signal caller is all the difference.

1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

with McDermott there are adjustments and a diff game plan week to week  I swear with Frazier it was the same exact thing every week regardless of the opponent

Silly statement...

[Dolphins @ Bills - 1st Half Game Thread]

Dirty play design right there boys! Dorsey dialing it up!

[Elam a healthy scratch part deux (now part TRES) (now part QUATRO)]

5 minutes ago, BBFL said:

Let’s say this is a common occurrence for the remainder of the season, do we move on from Kaiir or hold onto him for insurance in the event we don’t resign Dane in 2024?

He's insurance for Tre, not Dane.

[10/01/23 Week #4 GAMEDAY Bills vs Miami Pregame Thread]

Just now, k2mountain said:

I'm praying for Terrel Bernard to have a exceptional day as QB of the defense. That will be pivotal.

Gonna be more on the secondary, specifically Hyde, to get us in the correct coverage checks vs all the motion today.

[Elam a healthy scratch part deux (now part TRES) (now part QUATRO)]

I'm at a total loss for why people thought this would be his week. Equally at a loss as to why people can't grasp that he is a boundary corner who doesn't play special teams. It's a numbers thing with him.

[NFL Head Coaching Candidates 2024 & Beyond~SI]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

I’m “okay” with Dorsey, but…, 

 

   He does call some head scratcher plays at times, it’s as if he isn’t seeing what everyone else is seeing type of thing, for lack of a better way of saying it.
 

    I see stuff like Joshes 30 yard pass to digs, that cover 1 highlighted, why is Gabe running a route that is effectively five yard from Diggs when Diggs makes the catch on the same play?  I’ve seen this same type of thing with our WRs on different parts of the field in games from last season as well, it seems odd to compact an catch spot with two receivers and the opponents that are covering them, why is this an actual play route for two guys to hit catch points next to each other? That and the screen pass to Diggs for a loss of yards…, odd play calling to me, oh well,

 

GO BILLS!!!

This is why most fan takes on Dorsey are garbage (this is a general statement, not an attack on you). Understanding the game is crucial. It's scramble drill my guy - it's not designed to do that. By design if the QB leaves the pocket receivers are taught to 1) abandon their route and work to the side of the field the QB escaped to and 2) if running something short - take it deep | if running something deep - come back to the ball. It was just lack of field awareness on Gabe's part - not an indictment on Dorsey.

[Excluding JA, predict your impact player - Dolphins at Bills (includes preview of the game)]

Micah Hyde

[Film Breakdown on Terrel Bernard - Also, Keep an Eye on the Rest of the Defense as Well.]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:11 PM, McBean said:

Been said, but super impressed at 18:44 in this video.

 

This guy is getting better every week.

 

I loved him coming out, just glad he’s now showing it. 
 

Him and Milano are beasts.

What makes it super impressive to you? I’m just curious.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The defense morphed a lot with Frasier over 6 years.. after teams adjusted to how they played them

 

It started as a heavy cover 3 with pattern matching

 

That it morphed to a combo coverages 

 

Then it turned into a deep tempa 2.. with cover one on third down

 

There was like a 6 year morph based on how offenses played us ... By the end cover one on third down was the team's favorite

Sure. I've specifically been comparing last year to this year with the Edmunds/Bernard comparisons.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Leslie Frazier used tons of pattern matching also

 

Probably top in the league The last 5 years

When they ran quarters, sure. They played far more 2/Tampa than anything else though.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

Just now, Einstein said:

Again, I believe you are wrong. Cover 1 does as well.

Cover 1 does a good job of regurgitating football terms - not sure how much football they actually know though. 😉

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

The stalemated point is definitely what happened, he just stayed on the LoS with his hands on the back. There was no attempt to compress the back into the QB. Once he found there was a player in his way his sprint came to a full stop. Like I said, I was surprised because when I saw the RB step up I fully expected Tremaine to truck him, push him back, toss him aside, something! I didn’t expect an “oh well, I tried but he’s in the way” sort of give up. Luckily Ed Oliver (IIRC) got the sack on the play otherwise it would’ve incensed me even more 😂

His height was his biggest disadvantage in those situations. Those backs won the leverage battle more often than not because he had no bend and consistently played high.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

That’s fair, but with a guy his size and speed you would expect/hope he’d toss that smaller player aside and at least affect the QB. I’ve seen numerous LBs go head up with a RB and the RB gets bowled over. I had never seen one sprinting to the LoS just to get stoned by a RB and then “that’s it.” No fight or hustle through the block, just acceptance that the back was there. It was wild to me.

You're taught to compress the back into the QB, if you get stalemated you're taught to be a low box player and essentially maintain the LoS so that if the QB steps up into the pocket you can work an escape to compress it at that point.

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I disagree. The Commanders motioned into Shotgun split on multiple plays. Bernard was able to recognize this particular direction due to Milano being the Mike.
 

Again, everything to do with the motion and where the bubble was.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Did you ever once think that Edmunds was the best player on the field for either team?  I know I never did even when he played well.  I had that feeling with Bernard last week and I don't think 2nd place was particularly close.

Again it's like comparing apples to oranges. Edmunds did a lot of really good things vs the run that go unnoticed. Basically every big run was blamed on him by people who don't know what they're looking at. As far as pass game is concerned, he was never asked to be as active as Bernard is being asked to be because it wasn't his skill set, but his impact in coverage was definitely felt. It just didn't put him in positions to make those impact plays as often.

 

Tremaine wasn't a dud like many here think he was, but certainly isn't worth the contract he got.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

7 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Has nothing to do with them calling out Milano as the Mike and everything to do with the motion and recognizing where the bubble is. Still impressive - shows he's locked in on film study and tendencies based on formations.

Tremaine wasn't good at it. The vast majority of times Edmunds blitzed was because we were in man coverage and the back stayed in the protection which adds him into the rush. Additionally, it forces his rush path to be through the back (to protect vs screens) which made it look like he was just running into blockers to people who didn't understand the situation.

@JayBaller10 read this regarding Edmunds taking on backs in his blitz path.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

27 minutes ago, Einstein said:

This is really impressive work by Bernard. Miami called out Milano as the MLB and Bernard instantly recognized the play.
 

 

Has nothing to do with them calling out Milano as the Mike and everything to do with the motion and recognizing where the bubble is. Still impressive - shows he's locked in on film study and tendencies based on formations.

29 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I agree. Just for example was Tremaine not asked to blitz because they always wanted him in coverage or because he just wasn't very good at it? TB seems to have the skill set to do that. McD is not a blitz happy defensive coach but he can be effective calling them selectively. 

Tremaine wasn't good at it. The vast majority of times Edmunds blitzed was because we were in man coverage and the back stayed in the protection which adds him into the rush. Additionally, it forces his rush path to be through the back (to protect vs screens) which made it look like he was just running into blockers to people who didn't understand the situation.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

All great points. I just can’t get on board with the sentiment that Bernard has these stats and Edmunds didn’t simply because Edmunds wasn’t being used in the same way Bernard is being used. That would imply Edmunds was misused and that the Bills defensive scheme was at fault for his lack of big time plays, not the player himself. How many times have we said “almost” about a play Tremaine could have made but didn’t? 

I don't think it implies Edmunds was misused. The two players are not the same. They each have different skill sets. Neither would have much success in the others roles because they lack the ability to be great at that specific scheme. If anything I think it speaks volumes of our defensive scheme and coaching staff to recognize what their players can and can't do well and put them in positions to be successful.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

3 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

This is what surprises me - Bills are playing more man principles but the Elam still not getting more snaps.  I guess they are mixing man with zone and trading off with this concept hard for him to get ingrained into his instincts.  That and his habit of not keeping his hands to himself.

Elam is a boundary corner who doesn't play special teams - our current boundary corner? Tre White. I think it's more a numbers deal than anything else at this point.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

1 minute ago, JayBaller10 said:

Do you think those differences lend credence to why Bernard has made more impact plays? Or is it the players themselves?

Partly, yes. They are two completely different players. For as athletic as everyone touts Edmunds to be - he wasn't very twitchy and couldn't play man coverage. He was big and fast running in a straight line and they used him that way. He was essentially a MoF Safety when we played 2 and played everything underneath top/down. Bernard is more in line with Milano as far as twitch and bend - being able to get around blocks without having to engage and still being able to re-stack the gap - and being able to play man coverage or man principles in zone match coverages. Its comparing apples to oranges really.

[Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week]

29 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Whats funny is that I see Bills fans, not here but elsewhere, saying Bernard plays in a different defense than Tremaine. Saying Edmunds should’ve been used the way Bernard is used. And people wonder why the Edmunds threads won’t die, it’s constant conversation. 

I mean they are being used differently. We played a way more 2 under Frazier where Edmunds was a true zone Tampa 2 dropper. This year under McDermott we're primarily playing 1 and 3 with a little 6 rolled in and we're pattern matching more than we ever have in the past (playing more man principles out of our zone coverages).

[Defensive coverage schemes]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

this was something i brought up and i think it was hoof hearted had asked about. a cover 2 will leave us exposed to have our slow CB's attacking across the field and uphill to the running back.

 

a cover3 or 4 could press what seems like man coverage against the the outside WR.

I still don't know what you mean by this. Corners won't chase crossers in 2.

 

I assume we'll likely Cloud whichever side Tyreek is on and play Quarters to the other when we want to sit in coverage. If they get into 3x1 sets with Tyreek at 2 or 3 we'll likely lock our Corner on #1 and play Cloud to the interior two receivers. This guarantees we always have help over the top on him. If we want to bring 5 man pressures we'll roll 3. I don't see us playing much man outside of the redzone unless we're in 2 Man.

[Defensive coverage schemes]

8 hours ago, BillsIsrael said:

Thanks for all the replies - basically I got 2 a basic answers
1. It's done all the time - where man-to man is mixed with zone  - part of the files is man-to-man and part of the field is zone etc...
2. It's not really done - since it would leave the zone with only 6 men and more exploitable 
My thoughts were maybe using this concept to slow down Hill on Sunday by having him man-to -man all day long with a second defender always in the area as part of the zone to help

Speaking to your specific scenario of running something similar to the box and 1 concept - it's not something that can be done all game long.

 

Generally speaking in regards to football coverages there are multiple ways to be able to man a receiver out of zone coverages that don't involve pulling a player out of the front. Hope that clears things up for you.