Shaw66

If the leak nhave ended why were there WEEKS of rumors about Dareus being traded?

It is a good article. As someone said, a bit harsh. Maybe better, it's prematurely harsh. Let's see what the next few weeks bring. After all, even his article speculates about Bills going 8-8, so how can he say the Bills are bad? 8-8 isn't bad. When he scrambles Taylor l o KS down field every bit as much as Wilson and Brees and Rodgers. So he's wrong about that. But it may be that's he's right about Taylor screwing up the offensive scheme. I don't know how he knowsnthat, but it sounds credible. We will see. Actually it's really quite good. Similar to the things I said in that much of what the author says about the team really I don't supported by the evidence. As I said, I like the conclusions about Taylor being done and not the right guy and Peterman probably not the right guy either, but I think a lot of statements about the Bills don't reflect what the Bills actually have been.

I agree that decision making is the most critical factor. And speed of release is probably second. But when those are equal in 2 qbs, arm strength limits the guy with the weaker arm. And speed of release is affected by arm strength. The guy with the weak arm needs more of a wind up to zip the ball, and the wind up takes time. From what we've seen it looks like Peterman is excellent on the decision making end and that's what's encouraging. Don't you see that if the defense knows you can't and won't make certain throws the defense has an advantage that they don't have against better qbs?

I was talking about things like the bolded language, not how the WCO works in the ideal. And it isn't only when you're improvising. There are plenty of plays designed for the qb to throw when he recognizes something. Like an out pattern. Two qbs, different arm strength, the guy with the weaker arm has to release the ball earlier than the other in order to get the ball there on time. That means he has to recognize his key earlier than the other guy, which means he has less time to look at what's happening before deciding. That's a disadvantage, because the longer you have to look at the play develop, the better your decision making will be.

I agree. I hate the national coverage. But it isn't going to change. If you're a small market city, they're only going to talk about you if you win consistently. The Colts got lots of coverage when Peyton had them in the Super Bowl hunt, but not now. The amazing thing is that they don't know anything that's going on with the team BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO. Most of the fans around the country don't know anything about the team, either, and since they aren't going to talk about the team much, the little bit they say is always the same old stuff that most of the ignorant fans know, so it sounds right. They're not in the busines of having good information. They're in the business of getting ratings. They get ratings by playing to the big cities and the masses. The masses don't care about Buffalo, so the media don't talk about the Bills. The truth hurts.

That's exactly the point. The guys with strong arms (meaning mechanics that allow them to throw with greater velocity) don't wind up. Quick thinking without a strong arm doesn't get you much in most cases. Fitzy was quick thinking, weak arm. Taylor looks like slow thinking, strong arm. Peterman, we hope, is quick thinking with a good enough arm to get the job done. We'll see.

I agree. Some of that is athleticism, but as you say, he has practiced. He's learned to throw the ball from all kinds of positions. Watch the replays when he makes those throws. He always finds a way to get his body, particularly his upper body, into the throw. It's often just a quick twitch, but it gives him to deliver the ball on a line instead of throwing a wounded duck. Everybody says this, but I don't think there are plenty. Or even a few. If I have a strong arm and I think quickly, I'm better than your guy who thinks quickly with a weak arm. Can you say FItzpatrick?

Yeah, I agree that if you can't make that throw, you're not the guy. But arm strength also allows the best QBs to make throws when their bodies aren't in position to have perfect mechanics. It allows them to throw deep more accurately. Those things are also nice to have. But you're right that the throw you're talking about is essential to high end quarterbacking.

I think it often can be increased with coaching and training. My son is a good athlete. In Little League he couldn't throw. I started watching kids throw and studied a little. Then I showed him the proper hip and shoulder turn, he practiced it a while, and he became one of the best throwers in the league. Watch some of the best throwers - shortstops and second basemen, Rodgers, Newton. Those guys throw with velocity even when their hips are out of position to get good hip rotation. They do it with a quick should er turn, which you get from strength through you midsection. They have a powerful quick little upper body rotation and the ball zips out. For a very few athletes, it comes naturally. But for plenty of good athletes, it can be learned. Well, it's a little more than that, but yes.

Yeah, I can't argue with that. From the very little bit I've seen of Nate, I'd say he throws a ball much like Romo. And if that's true, that's good enough. It was a limitation for Romo, but not so limiting that he didn't succeed in the league. I'd take a young healthy Romo any day. We have to wait and see. Or I have to wait and see. Some people already have made up their minds.

I think Fitz and Peterman are similar in the arm strength category. Again, maybe Peterman will improve. But I think FItz's inaccuracy was a function of his arm strength in the same way I commented on the video of Peterman throwing to Benjamin. When you don't have the ability to flick the ball on a line with a quick arm motion, you have to drive with your legs and hip and shoulder turn. The bigger the motion, the more variables you have in the throw, and that's what impacts accuracy. Fitz had a good sense of how quickly he had to get the ball there on some of his throws, and he put his body into the throw. That's when he got inaccurate. People misunderstand me. I haven't seen enough of Peterman (none of us has) to know how well he delivers the ball in live NFL action. I just found some data that is consistent with the scouting reports and I thought it would be interesting to discuss. I was correct. I don't think anyone knows yet whether he has enough arm. And although everyone keeps saying there are great QBs without great arms, Montana is the only one anyone can name. Still, I agree completely with your main point, which is that arm strength is one of many attributes, and all things considered you'd rather have it than not.

I thin there had to be something wrong with the Watson number. Good point about Flacco, Sanchez and Dalton. That makes you wonder about the numbers.

Great stuff. I'd never seen the OODA loop stuff before. Of course, none of us can measure OODA times, so we don't really know, but the complaint about Tyrod has always been effectively this. The point about arm strength, as with other factors, is it's a factor, not the whole story. The guy with a slow OODA loop can overcome it a bit with arm strength. The guy with a great OODA loop can get away with having a weaker arm. Tyrod has good arm strength and probably a slow OODA loop, and the arm strength isn't good enough to overcome the weakness. Montana didn't have arm strength, but he had a good OODA loop. Thanks.

Yeah, Montana was an exception. He was a pure west coast offense qb. He was throwing short balls a lot. And he had Jerry Rice to throw to. No one is telling us that Peterman is Montana. You can't argue with the truth so you're left with this? The only good qb whom didn't have a strong arm that anyone has named is Montana, and he played in a different era and had the best receiver in the world. And who are these qbs? There aren't many and they are the exceptions.

Hips and shoulders. You're correct - it isn't so much about making arm muscles stronger - it's hips and midsection. And technique. That's why guys can improve their velocity.

Maybe you should get in touch with Isaac Newton and let him know that his laws of physics are wrong.

I think Fitz had both problems. Sometimes he was a wreckless thrower. To his credit, he did that only late in the game when the Bills needed a score, but it's still better to take the incompletion than to throw the INT trying to make something happen. The incompletion gives you another shot. Sometimes his INTS were that his arm couldn't deliver what his eyes saw. He could see the opening, and he knew that a good throw would get there, but he didn't have the arm strength to make the throw.

Then I guess arm strength doesn't matter. Thanks for the insight.

Nice collection of videos with brief but useful comments. Nice job.

Post deserves some love, indeed. It made me laugh. Scratch my head first, then laugh.

Denver would have won that Super Bowl with YOU at quarterback. Peyton had nothing to do with winning that Super Bowl.

This is the interesting point, I think. As some others have said, you get to the pros and you're getting some really sophisticated training. If his arm strength is a problem, his diet, weight lifting and off-season work on his mechanics will all be designed to reduce his deficit. (Unless he throws 17 interceptions in the next 7 games, in which case they'll tell him to go sit in the corner while they work on the rookie they drafted!)

But don't you see that "adjusting the timing" means you have to throw earlier than the guy who throws with greater velocity? If you hae to throw earlier you have to decide earlier, and deciding earlier means you're going to make the wrong decision sometimes, because you couldn't wait the extra split second.

This is nonsense. There are no star QBs who don't have strong arms. Why do you think people describe good QBs as guys who "can make all the throws"? What do you think it means? It means he can throw short, throw deep, throw on a line, throw with touch, complete the 15-yard sideline pattern without hanging the ball in the air for the corner to pluck it. You can't "make all the throws" if you don't have a strong arm.

I agree. They'll draft a guy who's dumb as a rock if he has a big arm, but they hem and haw about a guy who shows brains, decision making and leadership because he's too small.