corta765

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October when things aren't insanely intense yet so I can be upset if we lose whereas late in the year when we are out of the race I won't care and probably cheer for the Pack.

Haha they are not good but it wouldn't be historically bad which they were pacing at.

Agreed. Mahomes has played exactly one game and looked like a rookie. Some good some bad literally nothing more you could gather without seeing a full season. The Bills in general don't draft enough QB's forget the 1st round round. The 2011 draft I sat there stunned when the Bills who desperately needed a QB wouldn't even take a shot at Dalton or Kapernick both 2nd round guys. We are notorious for settling and committing too quickly rather then bringing more competition.

Agreed I really liked Reilly and think with time he could be a solid WR3

Agreed and makes the WR corp not as bad now. Figure something like Benjamin, Jones, Kerley, Holmes, Streater, & Reilly. If they can draft a WR in the 2nd or 3rd the QB may have something to throw to haha.

Agreed. I want to meet the person who had this team with even 7 wins heading into last season. The first game of the fans and media a like wondered for the Jets and Bills if that would be their sole win. I think both understood the goal of QB in 2018 draft at all costs but I don't think they expected the Jets to pass them truthfully or more that IND would not take two 1sts instead. Regardless of what happens I am far more encouraged with this group because at least they have identified QB as the target and to try and do what it takes to get there. One thing that aggravated me about past administrations is their lack of aggressiveness towards QB. If Buddy Nix were GM Tyrod would still be QB.

Nope drum line people are far cooler

No but it is well known Buffalo has wanted to get into the top 5 draft one of Rosen, Mayfield, Allen, or Darnold. Jackson and Rudolph are not in the top 5. Your right that long term no one knows and the best 1983 QBs were drafted 1st Elway, 12th Kelly, & 28th Marino with Todd Blackledge flaming at out 7th , Tony Eason doing OK for NE at 15th, and the Jets getting a moderate starter with Ken O'Brien at 24th. That said with everything known about the NFL draft and QBs especially, your best odds are in the Top 10 and in the case of this draft Top 5. The Bills not reaching the Top 5 would be a failure based on what we know now. Your right that we could hit on a guy late but I am looking at just the present.

The problem here is if the Bills come out and say they are thrilled they got either and that was the plan it's BS. The problem for the Bills is you can't come out and say will we failed and had to take one of these two. It's a giant lose lose either way.

This is why when the Jets traded up to 3 I got a pit in my stomach. You knew the Colts would be willing to move by the Giants are far more expensive and that is IF they would even want to move. Your scenario above which is very plausible would be ground zero for the Bills and effectively force them to either draft then BPA pushing the QB decision to 2019 or settle with a concession QB like Rudolph/Jackson (FYI not saying they can't workout its a gamble with any QB but they were not the goal). My hope is they somehow can swing into 2 or 4 and grab one of Rosen Darnold or Mayfield, I want nothing to do with Allen.

The problem with this is that there is a good portion of fans that only view a franchise QB as someone who has HOF career putting up great numbers or solid numbers but tons of playoff success. There are a lot of QB's who may not be HOF caliber but were/are good to at points great from Jim McMahon, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Donovan McNabb etc.. who you could still say were/are franchise guys. Another poster made a great point about Tony Romo being a good definition of a franchise QB. He may not be a HOF QB but he was really good, the team had some decent success, the team received some decent national attention, and it stabilized the spot for a decade plus. You mention Drew Brees as your guy looking like that but he is arguably one of the top 5-7 QBs ever in the league. If your expectation is that you will constantly be disappointed and be waiting a long time for that guy. The post was directed at the expectations that come with a QB being deemed franchise and how we as fans view success at the position. Based off your response your in the group that is HOF caliber or bust.

You misread what the conversation entailed. The poster said currently as in 2018 Joe Flacco may not be thee guy anymore which I agreed with which happens on the back end of all players. He is 33 his team has missed the post-season the previous 3 season and he has not been the same since he tore that knee. But no one said he wasn't a franchise guy, my entire point was using him as one of many in terms of expectations. Every Bills fan would sign up for drafting a guy like him in a heart beat if we could get his career and success both regular season and post. I think that is a really fair outlook. That is why I said if I drafted a guy to be my franchise QB my expectations for that person would be give me 10-12 years where I can build with that player and they pass for a good amount of TDs/Yards etc.. Agreed. I have always kind of thought of Drew Bledsoe as the perfect time (when in NE not BUF). Team was successful, went to a SB, 4x pro bowler, and had a good amount of success/national attention. I think any team drafting a QB would sign up for the baseline of Romo/Bledsoe if that is what they got.

Right but my point is if your drafting a QB you want at least 10 years out of the guy. Flacco has given 10+ years the Ravens were successful and won a SB partially because of him. So I would say they succeeded in drafting a franchise guy even if he ended up being more Alex Smith in the end then Aaron Rodgers if you catch my point. But I do agree they have to start thinking new QB soon that knee injury has made him never look the same.

Exactly and that's why I bring up a guy like Flacco who may be more above average then anything else BUT he has SB, playoff appearances, and has beaten Brady.

On behalf of Buffalo Bills Mafia buh bye

I have wanted to post this for weeks but I needed to think of how to correctly approach this so here we go. It is more then likely the Bills will draft a QB at some point in the 1st round with the expectation he is going to be the franchise QB long term. My question that I have been thinking of is what defines success then if he becomes a franchise guy? Are we talking wins, amazing stats, playoff success, or just general stability at the position for a decade with a mix of these? This is not a necessarily a comparison of who I think is better, rather how these QBs have done in their careers. For my criteria this pertains to 1st round QBs only, I am only going as recent as 2012 otherwise its a bit too hard to judge the newer guys, and the player had to have some level of success in one of these categories: QB's who win: These QB's may not have the most fantastic regular seasons stat wise, but they have a track record of consistently putting up solid seasons that result usually in playoff appearances and 10 win seasons at least. Aikman is the pinnacle of this group and Alex Smith is basically the floor with McNabb being your middle. These are all solid passers Troy Aikman 89' Alex Smith 2005' Donovan McNabb 99' Stat QB's: These QBs are guys who in terms of passing the ball have incredible numbers but their success in the regular season and post season is lacking. Sometimes with guys like Marino, Rivers, and Stafford they lacked a roster around them to get their fair chance at a SB, some like Palmer & Pennington saw injuries derail promising careers and the numbers hint at what could've been, and for some like Cutler & O'Brien they can throw but they lacked the leadership skills to take it to the bank. Andrew Luck 2012' Matt Stafford 2009' Jay Cutler 2006' Phillip Rivers 2004' Carson Palmer 2003' Chad Pennington 2000' Dan Marino 83' Ken O'Brien 83' Playoff darlings: During the regular season these guys at points will make you want to pull your hair out..and then the post season comes and they both have performances that make you want to say they are great. Joe Flacco 2008' Eli Manning 2004' Success in multiple avenues from regular season, playoffs, stats etc...: These are guys who have put up MVP caliber seasons, had playoff success, and had multiple years worth of regular season success for their team. For all of these players the idea of putting them in the HOF either has happened or is a pretty valid thought in some way. Cam Newton 2011' Matt Ryan 2008' Aaron Rodgers 2005' Ben Rothlisberger 2004' Michael Vick 2001' Peyton Manning 98' Steve McNair 95' Drew Bledsoe 93' John Elway 83' Jim Kelly 83' Looking at this I just find more questions. Was Troy Aikman a better QB then a guy like Philip Rivers because of his winning SB's? Steve McNair had one of the best season a QB had in total and his career frankly looks better then Eli Manning who has two Super Bowl rings so wouldn't he be more of a preferred franchise guy to have your QB model? Matt Stafford managed to take an 0-16 team that has been perennially bad and managed to make them playoff contenders most years; is that more impressive then Cam Newton's career who has been great but also had vastly more help across the board? Donovan McNabb had a better level of success team wise in the NFL and even beat Michael Vick's Falcons in the NFC title, yet Vick was a transcendent talent who changed the QB position and without the dog fighting was on pace for a historically unique career so who really would you take? Truthfully none of these questions require an answer nor am I looking for one. What it does show is how we can view success in variety of different ways and at the same point failure. The quarterback position of any in football is hardest to judge in terms of success because I think we all value things so differently and as fans we live in a world where everything now is championship or bust. If Darrelle Revis never won a SB would that be held against his HOF resume compared to other HOF caliber CBs? If the Bills drafted one of these quarterbacks and his career were to arch like Matt Stafford isn't that still a success to insulate the position and get playoffs appearances? Or would you rather a Joe Flacco type who benefited from a better team but is a lesser passer? In the end I arrived at this for my expectations for a franchise passer. I want someone who can give me at least 10-12 years where the QB position is not an issue and they have a career throwing for some real solid yardage. In the end that QB cannot control the roster that may be put around him which to a degree will shape the success possible for that QB. Of all the things I despise about Patriot fans it is how they don't appreciate they had a true franchise QB with Bledsoe and literally tripped into the greatest QB ever in my humble .02 opinion. It is so hard to get that position right and they are going nearly 30 years of having that hole filled. I am very excited to see how the draft plays out and curious how you frame your expectations for a QB.

I saw this and nearly screamed. I won't know what to do with myself if they don't draft a QB day one.

At some point they have to pay someone and assuming KB has a good season I would expect Buffalo to. He is a solid typically consistent performer and seems to be a culture guy like McD would like. Personally I think they wanted Woods and had the capspace had been like 2019 is shaping to be he would've still been here.

Agreed that is why I said if you have red flags with him as an actual player the injuries and his commitment to the game are real. I think he can be a leader, but I think the concern that at 29-30 years old he decides to quit and move into something with his degree are valid. When teams draft QB's they literally stake everything to them and if all goes well you hope that guy can play until 36-38 years old filling your QB void for 12-15 years. The last thing you want is that guy pulling the parachute barely 8 years in and if your a GM your job and your staffs job depends on him being the guy.

I love when people say he "does not fit our towns culture" yet our best QB ever was as arrogant as hell until his son born who cheated on his wife and called out his own teammates to the media (#80sBickeringBills). Anyone who has met Rosen the past 2-3 years have commented on how good a teammate he has been including a current Bill who played with him and that he relates very well to his players because he is so open minded. Please exactly find a statement by a teammate ripping Rosen because otherwise your white noise. If you referring to Jim Mora's comment well he just got fired so not sure what else you expect from a guy who had boat loads of talent for years and couldn't put it together. UCLA does not have captains for their team but he was in their leadership committee and for coin tosses he selected regularly by his team to be one of the leaders sooo...yea Now if you are concerned with Rosen the player I would at least agree that his injury issues and commitment to the game are red flags potentially. But just about every major draft analyst has said Rosen is the best pure passer in the draft and most NFL ready. Doesn't mean he would end up being better then Darnold but he certainly has the potential to be quite good.

Good post. I think they are two directions they are heading based off what they can or cannot do in the draft. Either way they want to create a roster that can be a contender year in year out it just comes down to one of these two things: 1. They can trade up to #2 so they can grab Rosen who it seems is their eye (I could be wrong). From there I think they are willing to take their lumps because like you said they made the playoffs so the pressure is back. They have upwards of 90 million in cap space in 2019 so let the rookie get through a year and build like hell around him with that cap space. From there 2019 hopefully is the big year where you are going for the division crown and hopefully just maybe one of Brady and BB might be gone. This is my preferred scenario because once you have the QB you have the plan set and the cap space to be aggressive in the correct way long term. 2. They cannot move up in the draft due to unwillingness of teams to move out so they build the roster instead and grab perhaps a guy like Mason Rudolph, Kyle Lualetta, Mike White etc.. by moving back into the first or early 2nd round. This is similar to what Minnesota did where they added a ton of talent all over and drafted a guy like Teddy B late and just hoped he didn't wreck the ship without much pressure. For example adding 1st rnd: LB Tremaine Edwards VA Tech, C James Daniel Iowa, QB Mason Rudolph (trade up) 2nd Rnd: WR James Washington 3rd: RB Nick Chubb UGA, & OL Orlando Brown OKL (for example I used a mock draft engine not saying this is who I want either) would be the potential of 2-3 starters plus good depth guys for this season. The team potentially could compete better then the one above with Rosen given the holes filled for the upcoming season but the QB would be a far greater question mark then with Rosen who you know would be your lock long term for better or worse.

I don't believe in him either, but here is the case I would make about why he could be successful based off those who have countered me: -Excellent tools and good leader which helps commanding an NFL offense. If you can get his completion percentage even to just 62% your looking at a real stud for QB -Matt Stafford has a similarly low completion percentage and rounded out quite nicely -The way Tyrod could use his legs to create a great play Allen's arm is so talented that he can make throws literally most QBs can't solely off of that which create plays that otherwise wouldn't exist. There are clips of this available. -A team like Buffalo has a talented running game that would take a lot of pressure off of him having to carry the team for the first year or two. Plus Dabol is regarded as an OC that makes the most with the talent he has, he doesn't try to force a scheme like Dennison -His supporting cast was far worse in his final year at college with a lot of drops and players who couldn't get open enough to make the catch. With a better supporting cast he would see an uptick in all stats though that may include INTs. -Played in a pro style offense so would have a faster transition to NFL -Projecting QB's is an impossible art. His size and talent compares to players like Farve & Wentz, but it also compares to players like Jake Locker & EJ Manuel. Even with his flaws your truthfully don't know and Buffalo does offer an offense that has a decent enough line and running game that would take the pressure off early regardless of fan expectations. Remember Tyrod and the Bills were 31st in passing, even if we move up to just 23rd in passing would the team be worse or better? I think it would be a better personally. Overall to me its boom or bust. He could be Carson Wentz, big tall passer with loads of talent that develops into a stud or EJ Manuel who has the same physique but never could get the accuracy or mental sign in check to be a true QB. Personally I'd take Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield any day over Allen.

No he was drafted as a 5th round pick with limits to his arm strength and 99% of 5th round QBs turn into nothing. In his only true start he threw 5 INTs. Saints and Colts were some good some bad. So in his limited work he had the worst half by a QB ever, people don't forget that stuff. If he is something then he will prove so come training camp, pre season, etc..

Ummm..... OK