Crusher

It's about how large a part he was directly accountable for when measured against his peers. Nobody is removing the QB from the equation...we are determining how much he factored into the equation. It turns out not nearly as much as most others. Disregard it if you so choose...I'm simply putting forth the info because I think it helps give everyone another piece of the puzzle when discussing this subject.

And you are the guy complaining about others and their behavior?

This doesn't account for the systems they ran and the reponsibilities they had within their offensive system. Taylor was clearly in a simplistic system with little responsibility and very little freelancing, making reads, and attempting more difficult throws. Those things absolutely mean something, and without accounting for that, I can't glean much from some of these stats.

This doesn't change the fact that he was less responsible for his team's production than most other QB's. Tyrod has proven to be efficient, not productive.

Sure thing. Yeah...I did the legwork on the now extinct board, and posters lost their minds. The MODS quickly worked to delete it with no further explanation. I was not happy about it at all.

I've been through this with you countless times. His rush yards that you drool over are factored in, and he still comes in near the very bottom for total yards and total TD's When compared to the percentage his peers had for their respective team's.

I don't think it's accurate to go around and tout Taylor as being the leader of a upper half of the league offense when he was alot less responsible in terms of percentage of the team's total offensive production than nearly all other QB's. It should at least be made note of. No...his rushing numbers are included. Just like all the other QB's. They accumulated rush numbers also.

Look at the team's total TD's and the QB's and calculate the percentage. Same thing with yards. I figured he would rank low, but he was almost dead last. This is only a measure of how much of the offense the QB is directly responsible for to be clear, but I found it worth noting when talking about the offenses production and how much credit you want to assign to Taylor.

I wasn't directly responding to you. It was more of a general response to those that always want to tout the offense (Tyrod more specifically), and put the failures of the season on the defense. They had their bad moments, but they also had a large part in all our wins, and they made some plays to give the offense a chance in a few others. And the offense has been better the last two years to answer your question. How much of that is a direct result of Taylor though when measured against his peers? I looked up what percentage of the team's offense the QB was responsible for on the other board, and it turned out that Taylor was only better than Osweiler in terms of total yards and total TD's. This basically shows that most other QB's had a bigger hand in their team's offensive production than Tyrod.

Tyrod has had issues before Roman and after Roman. Blaming Roman seems like a desperation move to me. When a poster can clearly school me on the game, I'll gladly admit it. Until then, you are just another pretender trying to question what I see without anything substantial to disprove it. Just a lame comment about me not knowing football...

It's easy to make the defense the scapegoat. These posters can't come to terms with the fact that Taylor is just not very good when it comes to passing. They can't escape the fact that he came up short when it mattered most in nearly all situations, however.

I live in Philly and have seen plenty of Wentz. He is light years beyond Tyrod. He is constantly making calls and adjustments at the line from what he sees in the defense. Again, the systems and what is asked of the QB plays a big part here. He was also a rookie, and he didn't have a complete cupcake schedule like Tyrod either. You go do your evaluation. It should be fun to see if you can actually form an opinion that doesn't paint Tyrod as a good QB since you seem determined to do so. All the stats in the world mean squat to me when you run a simplistic offense with little to no responsibility when nearly all other QB's are responsible for much more within their offense. One of the weakest pass offenses being propped up by safe and easy throws that produce some good metrics when viewed through the narrow rose colored lens that some choose to look through here.

This is what I call not being able to hang in the discussion, so we give a weak reply like the one you see here. It's ok, because I don't really know who you are or what you bring to the discussion anyway. From what I have gathered from this post, nobody is missing much of anything.

So it's ok to be the over the top Tyrod worshipper, but someone who thinks the opposite is downright scary? Ridiculous is right. So is the fact that you seem to place yourself above the fray when you are as guilty of being on a high horse and insulting posters as anyone. Matter of fact...you had the nerve to tell me to stop posting. Every time you post about me, I feel like the exact same can be said for yourself. If it wasn't for you and these silly Tyrod is good threads, this place would be much more sane.

Another thing they seem to forget is that alot of those points came in decisive wins. Wins where the defense was stellar. 14 PPG in the team's seven wins. The defense struggled against some of the better offenses, no doubt. They still made plays in nearly every one of those games to give the offense a chance, only to have Taylor come up short.

On the other hand...Roman got the best out of Colin Kaepernick, who is a very similar player to TT. And they both had a strong run game to support the QB.

Sorry you feel that way. Nothing else I can do if you don't take me at my word. The best course of action for you now would be to simply ignore me if that's truly how you feel. Best of luck to you

There's no need, because I know what I do. I discuss the topic at hand. I back up my position with detailed responses. I treat posters respectfully until they stop doing so. I can't help if you feel a certain way, but I'm telling you the truth. Do what you wish with it.

I don't criticize other's opinions...I simply state why I don't agree if that's the way I feel. Where you got the notion that I don't respect other's POV, I don't know. Some of The most respected posters here and from the previous board have great discussion with me without any issues, and we have disagreed plenty. The difference is they don't get emotional over it, and they can keep it within the lines. Others have shown they can't. They are too emotionally invested in their position. I am not. I have reasons for my positions on topics, and I stick to that. Posters have only received extra from me when they have crossed the line first. At that point...it's either ignore them or play on their level. I try to choose the high road, but I can't always let some of the insults or lies be out there without responding in kind.

There's alot here. I'll try to respond as best I can. I believe GoBills808 hit the nail on the head with passer rating. It doesn't account for the systems these guys run. Now normally, it hasn't been manipulated the way it has started to be. QB's played in a passing system that was at least somewhat complex, and they either sank or swam. Now we are seeing guys like Kaepernick and Taylor...guys that have great physical talent, but not much in terms of actual passing or mental abilities in regards to the mental aspect of the position...which is the most important. Just like you say coaching is number one in terms of what's most important to winning, the guy behind center needs to be a reflection of that coach...smart, calculating, able to put guys in a position to win. Players like Taylor are being given the keys to the car, but they can't push it to it's limits. They run simplistic offenses that protect them from making mistakes and directing the offense by what he sees once the team's line up. I believe that this hinders the pass game, and which is why we have seen the struggles late in games when passing is paramount to winning. Limiting mistakes is good, but only at certain times. Other times you need to challenge the defense, make team's respect your ability to beat them with the pass, or just to possibly draw a penalty on guys when you need to keep the chains moving. What's happening in these crucial moments is a direct reflection from the reluctance of the QB to demonstrate the ability to make tough throws and really challenge the defense in that area. I've always said Taylor's stats are misleading, and the way the coaches have kept the kid gloves on him and have had to keep the pass game simple for him only confirms this to me. And since we are speaking of coaching...I'll agree that it is huge. I'll entertain the idea that this staff could get more out of Taylor. How much more is debateable. I guess it depends on if you think the previous staff simply held Taylor back because they had a certain idea of what they wanted to do and refused to deviate from that plan, or if they just saw the flaws and weaknesses of the QB, and they relied more on the strength, which is the run game. The fact that Anthony Lynn came out after Roman was fired and talked about simplifying the calls for Taylor and limiting how much thinking he had to do makes me think it's more the players limitations than the coaching when it came to the QB. This staff will probably get the most out of Taylor, but if he can't master the basics, he's likely near his ceiling. And lastly...I can't agree on the contract comments. I suppose one could look at it the way you have and see it as a win. I think most would see it as a huge gamble and a not very smart decision if both contracts were on the table. Injuries and uncertainty is far to commonplace in the NFL. If you have security and guaranteed money for years to come, you generally take it. A few guys gamble every now and then, but I haven't seen it pay off very much. I can't imagine many agents advise this approach either. Also, for Tyrod to be able to believe he's going to improve and do better on the market when he has only shown to regress, while also having to deal with injuries and a new coaching staff is a real stretch IMO. The one thing I can always count on with you is discussion without you getting bent out of shape and behaving poorly, so I appreciate the post and as always welcome further discussion.

I suggest you take things here alot less seriously.

The problem here is that you're misguided about his production. Even in 2015, his production was not high. It was better, but not to the level you seem to place Taylor at. You are placing a premium on passer rating, a stat that is easily manipulated by a system that emphasizes low risk, high percentage throws. You were already exposed by GoBills808, who gave you the facts that you then pretty much blew off because you didn't fully understand them in regards to passed rating. You can say and believe what you'd like. What you see from Taylor on the field isn't anywhere close to what you and a few others seem to believe he's at when talking about where he ranks in certain categories. It also appears that the Bills also do not agree since they took money and his job security away from him. He's going to have to learn to master the basics that he hasn't been able to for now six years going into seven in the pro's to be the guy beyond this season. The likelihood of that happening doesn't seem to be really high if you look at the guys who have suddenly figured it out after being in the league that long.

Another poster that never came close to bringing legit discussion to any Bills board crying about someone that will say whatever it is that he believes, and does so while maintaining a level of respect and proper conduct. Can't say the same for you, though, Mr. word edit. I can't shed a tear for you. Oh, contrare. I'm actually a huge Bills fan. Dare I say that I'm quite possibly a bigger fan than you since I refuse to accept failure and want more for this team and our fans than the crap we've had for what seems to be forever now. This board allows posters to criticize the Bills...this is something you and others have a real hard time dealing with. If you want a happy place where no poster can be critical of this team or it's players, you may need to go somewhere else. And yes...I will continue to enjoy the pain my posting causes posters such as yourself because you simply haven't shown the ability to just stick to discussion and respect someone else's POV. Instead, you and others have chosen to attack, criticize, lie and complain. It's really tough to be sympathetic to folks like that.

Warned? Sorry...I have received absolutely no warnings for anything here. You must have me mistaken for the posters that can't control themselves when discussing certain topics with me...JM2009 has been warned here for his conduct, though. You chastised me for giving someone back the treatment they gave me...funny how that goes. It's ok because that poster agrees with you on Taylor. It's fine to disagree and have discussion. I've always maintained a level of respect here until someone decides to respond inappropriately. These posters that hate me and have an issue with my take on Taylor have demonstrated time and time again that they are the ones that can't behave and have discussion. Again...I have not received, nor do I deserve any type of warnings here. My take has simply been that Taylor is not good enough. I have been fine with him as the stopgap for this season, as the pickings were slim, and McDermott didn't want to have this team starting from square one. My issue was the money he was due, and the fact that his play didn't warrant that previous deal. He also doesn't deserve the job security. The Bills agreed with me and took both away from him. Now it's do or die for Taylor as a Bill, and I'm fine with sorting that out in a throw away year for this staff. I'm certainly not always negative. There are a number of things I'm positive about with this team. Taylor, however is not one of them. Carry on with whatever it is you like to do here, but please don't portray me as a deviant here on this board. It's actually completely untrue, and it's stuff like that that gets posters in trouble. Consider this a friendly reminder, friend.

You should do yourself a favor and stop embarrassing yourself by taking up for a guy who's not very good. At least I can take solace in the fact that I'm not defending some medioocre at best player to the death. If anyone should stop posting, it's you. Countless threads over and over on who? On nobody, because that's what Taylor is in terms of QB's in the NFL.