Straight Hucklebuck

Project or No? AFC East 1. Brady - Not a project. Immediately outworked everyone in the building. *2. Tannehill - Project, converted college WR. He's been so-so in the NFL and probably not trending to be a winner. 3. Darnold - Blue Chip talent, not a project *4. Allen - Project. Drafted because he reminded our GM of Cam Newton AFC North 1. Roethlisberger - Not a project, dominated the MAC 2. Flacco - Project pick from Delaware. Has been steady in the NFL and has one great Playoff run. 3. Dalton - Not a project, great college career 4. Mayfield - #1 Pick in the Draft, not a project AFC West 1. Rivers - Not a project, #4 overall 2. Mahomes - Huge college numbers and strong arm, not a project *3. Keenum - Career journeyman, project 4. Carr - Huge college numbers and family pedigree, not a project AFC South 1. Luck - #1 overall, Blue Chip talent, not a project 2. Watson - National Champion in college and almost beat Alabama in another NCG 3. Mariota - #2 Overall and great college player *4. Bortles - Label him a project, reach at #3 NFC East *1. Wentz - Maybe a project, was a D2 player, but huge physical tools. *2. Prescott - Project probably, I remember him more as a runner at MSU 3. Smith - #1 Overall, disappointing early career, but not a project 4. Manning - #1 Overall, family lineage, not a project NFC North *1. Rodgers - Some of our fans label him as a project because he sat behind Favre and Packers built his mechanics supposedly. 2. Stafford - #1 Overall, not a project *3. Turbisky - One year wonder in college, project 4. Cousins - Played for a major program and has put up some nice numbers in this league - not a project NFC South 1. Winston - #1 Overall and National Champion, not a project 2. Cam - #1 Overall and National Champion. Not a project. 3. Brees - 32nd pick in draft, small, but not a Project 4. Ryan - #3 Overall, not a project NFC West *1. Wilson - Project. Small and 31 teams didn't believe in him. Including super smart Buddy Nix. 2. Goff - #1 Overall, not a project 3. Rosen - Polished college passer, not a project *4. Garrapolo - Project. Small school project, sat behind Brady and still not convinced he is going to work out That's 10 Projects right now in the league if our fans want to count Rodgers. The Grading HOFers - Rodgers, Wilson Worked Hands Down - Flacco, Wentz Not Working - Tannehill, Keenum, Bortles, Garrapolo (hurt all the time) Too Early - Prescott, Turbisky Ridiculously Early - Allen

Goodwin has been in the league for 6 years and has 1,800 yards total receiving and 9 TDs. The bar is so low here we trip over it.

Its worth noting for sure. He's a mid-round pick that was trusted to throw 54 times last week for 349 yards. That's 3-4 weeks worth of production for Allen at the pace he's on. Pretty eye opening.

I think Peterman represents the type of player McDermott wants. He's not flashy, has no personality, studies hard, shows up to meetings on time, is an underdog story, wears his wedding ring when he plays, is a Christian. He's the Chris Kelsay of the Nix era. He gets opportunities because of the example he sets, not the results.

McDermott has some Doug Marrone in him. He's got that, I've been there, done that, seen it all, this is how you do it, earning the right to win everyday mentality. He's seen it all, he's thought of everything. But his team has been bashed in 3 out of 6 games, and the guy he picked as starting QB has thrown up on himself 4 of the 5 times he's seen the field (Chargers, Jaguars, Ravens, Texans).

(1) Fitzpatrick really cared about this team and this area. Tyrod Taylor was a consummate professional. (2) Size, Arm - The main reason he was drafted. (3) Okay, pumping up the crowd. (3) Okay (4) Does Josh Allen's work ethic tangibly set him apart from any other starting QB, or top tier QB's in the league? (5) Alright, runs in a manner that reminds you of Steve Young. (5) Yes, the Minnesota leap was hyper-athletic from a QB. (6) Okay drops of 11% of 25ish throws a game, means 2 more completions a game, nudging him. That's 85/139 instead of 75/139, 61% verses 54%. (7) Hope mixed with not enough Coordinator/Coach help. This reminds me of 2013 EJ Manuel - Marrone was a rookie HC with Nate Hackett was a rookie OC, doubling as the QB Coach, EJ had to compete against UDRFA Jeff Tuel and Practice Squad journeyman Thad Lewis after Cardinals burnout Kevin Kolb slipped on a wet mat. For me the early returns are exactly what the Scouting Reports said he would be. I want him to keep playing. If its 82 yards, just keep playing. With EJ, had the Bills seen enough at the end of 2013 to know he wasn't the answer, they could have drafted Derek Carr or Bridgewater and been on their way. Instead another wasted year in 2014 with the Bills trading up for Watkins to help Manuel and that experiment lasted all of four games. The last thing I want to see is Allen getting pulled, putting in Anderson to eat games, then putting Allen in for 2019 after spending FA money and draft picks, just to get 5 games in and he can't play, gets pulled again.

What has Allen done that makes you like him?

Watching tape and throws he'd like to have back. THANKS SEAN !!

Didn't forget anything, the post you are quoting references "clutching and grabbing". We get it - more physical in 1985 than 2018. But the athletes are even better now because its Year Around training aided by science. Julio Jones is good in 1984. If Mark Bavarro was solid 1988, then Gronk at 6'6" 270 would be too. Just because you got hit more back then, doesn't mean today's players "couldn't take it". Phillip Rivers would take the punishment and get up just like Boomer Esiason did after a Bruce Smith sack. I agree his numbers would be lower, but I don't think Steve Young was tougher than Andrew Luck just because he played in 1993 as opposed to 2014.

Six (6) games in and Bills are averaging 12.7 ppg. Last two games right at 13 points. Overreaction? Or just the realization that Culture is not overcoming the talent gap?

He threw for 350 and 3 TDs. Sure.

I'm not missing anything. I've 20x in this thread that of course, clutching, grabbing and no flags would bring down the statistics. But I also argue that Russell Wilson doesn't go from 3,900 yards, 64% completion, 25 TDs, 9 Ints and 99 Rating to 2,700 yards, 54% completion, 16 TDs, 18 Ints and a 72 rating just because he is getting hit more and his WRs are getting grabbed more. Yes, it's not video game numbers back then, but today's top QBs could slice and dice old defenses too. What intrinsically made Dan Marino much tougher than Phillip Rivers? Randall Cunningham is just tougher than Joe Flacco? Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have won with the 1989 49ers because he would have been hurt Game 1? Kahlil Mack wouldn't have been able to handle Anthony Munoz because he's used too a soft NFL. Rob Gronkowski would be useless against Ronnie Lott.

Allen. Starting Anderson is a waste of time like starting Kyle Orton and Kelly Holcomb was. The guy was on a family vacation when the Bills called.

I know you've been watching football since Jim Thorpe and Red Grange, but I think my comments have more depth than your one opinion about how the game was harder then than it is now. Nobody disputes that it was more violent for QBs back in the day, but I also don't think the skill level of those QBs was too high for the best of today. No way was there only one set of men tough enough to play under those rules and now Brees, Brady, Roethlisberger, Cam, Wilson, Ryan etc, would be utterly ineffective in 1982. I've acknowledged the rules differences make a tangible difference bro. Kelly did play is a much more physical era. But Wilson has also played in an era where tape is instantaneous, where analytics break down tendencies, where he has come in and started 16 games every season and won a Super Bowl in his 2nd year. Wilson's numbers would assuredly drop back in 1990. Of course, agree. But he doesn't go from 64% Completion, 25 TDs, 9 Ints to out of the league in 1990 either.

Yeah and Russell Wilson is a better athlete all around. Brady has started for 18 straight years. In an era where Coaches have instantaneous film to dissect, computers to analyze statistics and trends, in an era with money to fund larger scouting departments and Front Offices. Ridiculous to say he's the GOAT? No doubt Marino would be awesome nowadays. No doubt. But Tom Brady has led how many comebacks? Has what TD to Interception ratio? Has been elite for how long? And all of that is swept away with a flick of the wrist because its was more physical back then. Okay.

And you can't tell me that Earl Thomas or Richard Sherman couldn't play in 1986 because it was "too physical". Or that Julio Jones couldn't get open because he was being pressed or held at the line.

I think you've got the nostalgia rose colored glasses on. It was always better in the past. While I can't stand the rules of today, I disagree that the best in today's game could not compete with the best of 1980. No way do I believe that. No way does Richard Sherman struggle in 1985, or Zeke Elliott get too beat up, or Antonio Brown not able to get open, or Drew Brees struggle to complete passes.

6'3" runs a 4.39, dominated college football and has dominated the NFL. Calvin Johnson at 6'5" and 4.35 would have struggled against 5'10" 185 pound press corners from the 1980's. What a joke. No you're right, only guys like Chris Carter and Andre Reed were tough enough.

The great ones can play in any era. The 2015 Seattle Seahawks could go toe to toe with the 1991 Buffalo Bills. The 2017 Patriots could go toe to toe with the 1989 49ers.

Yeah and methinks you don't understand the skill level of the league is constantly rising. You don't think Julio Jones makes it in an era where grabbing is allowed? You don't think JJ Watt could hack it in Reggie White's day, you don't think Patrick Mahomes could ball in 1987? The level of athlete today is good enough to play in any era.

Its hard to win this way though. The 2000 Tennessee Titans gave up 11.5 ppg to the Ravens 10.3 ppg. They were historically great. But they got beat in the Playoffs. The 49ers of a few years ago were neck and neck with the Seahawks. But in the end, nobody remembers those guys. If the Bills aren't the best defense by ALOT then they won't be able to win games against good teams in the Playoffs this way. Seattle led the league in scoring defense for 4-5 years in a row.

That would be the most Billsy thing yet.

You time machine Wilson to 1988 and he'd do fine. He's a heck of an athlete, durable, and has been good from Day One in the NFL.

Kelly in 4 years with Bills leading to his 29th Birthday: 59.2% Completion Percentage, 82.9% Rating, 81 TDs, 15.75 Ints/Season, 2 TDs Rushing. Wilson in 4 years leading up to 29th Birthday: 64.3% Completion Percentage, 98.3% Rating, 109 TDs, 9.25 Ints/Season, 11 TDs Rushing. Okay, different eras, grabbing WRs etc. But its not laughable at all. Wilson after next season will be on Kelly's career TD's and will be closing in on 30,000 yards passing with no HOF WRs or RBs.

Well, right now, this defense has to give up 12 points or less for the Bills to have a shot to win the game. It's hard to realistically win this way. 3-3 feels better than 2-4, but the L doesn't really alter the path we're on this season.