Straight Hucklebuck

For sure more proven than Trent Murphy.

Stay. He’s like Jordan Mills. Sure he isn’t the best, but he’s started for you 3 out of 4 years and the Bils have yet to find an upgrade, so losing him just equals another hole.

Very slow. Hopefully that would not be the final move at Tight End.

Thank you for the analysis and facts. The Bills offense definitively got better when Allen came back from his injury. A large difference between the two is Rosen gives you nothing on the ground. The pressure is on Beane to deliver better offensive personnel. Allen and this offense have to score more points to really raise the quality of wins. I don't expect this defense to hold opponents to McDermott's stated goal of 17 points a game given the depth on that unit.

Let's be honest, we're happy with his two games against Miami. A dropped pass by Clay and 5 total TDs in the final game is driving this optimism. He was the only QB that could make anything happen on offense for the Bills, I give total credit to Allen for that. It's up to Beane to deliver him playmakers this offseason. But, we're out there trying to beat Brady, Roethlisberger, Luck, Watson, Mahomes, Rivers. Allen beat some non-Playoff teams, but overall this offense struggled before he got hurt (shutout in Green Bay) and after he came back (2 Ints against Jets in Week 13, team scored 12 points against NE Patriots in Week 15). The bar will be raised next year, and Allen, IMO, played exactly like his Scouting Reports said - occasional greatness because of his physical gifts, but erratic.

Exactly right. His passing numbers are poor across the board. Now, its on Beane to improve the offensive personnel this offseason. But 2019 there are no more excuses. Allen is not a rookie, the OC says that he is everything they thought he'd be, they have continuity on the Coaching Staff, they have draft picks, cap space, ownership backing and McDermott has his culture. It's time for the winning to start.

So we all agree then that there are no excuses for Josh Allen next year? We're not going to use the "he's young" excuse next year right? Allen has continuity with the OC, and the OC is saying he is everything they thought he'd be. So we can expect real results now right?

So we're declaring victory on Josh Allen? After 52.8% completion, 10 TDs passing and 12 Ints?

Sean McDermott thinks you do: "We play hard for a city that works hard. There’s a lot of heart on this football team. This win personifies the city of Buffalo. Blue collar and passionate.” https://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/22/sean-mcdermott-bills-home-games-nfl-week-7/ “I love the fire. He personifies Buffalo, right?” McDermott said. “He’s a hard worker, blue-collar kid and loves to compete" https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/11/26/sean-mcdermott-says-josh-allen-personifies-buffalo-bills/ Asked to elaborate, Murphy said: "What coach is looking for here as far as blue-collar guys, a scheme, guys that are passionate, trying to build a culture, kind of that tough, blue-collar mentality, winning, playing together, just competing." https://buffalonews.com/2018/03/15/trent-murphy-looks-talks-the-part-of-a-mcdermott-co-fit/ It's not a bad thing per se that guys work hard and bring their lunch-pail. But when you think that you can out-culture 31 other teams in a Professional Sports league by showing up to meetings on time and studying tape really hard with average talents, that's where I think you have the same limited mindset as Dick Jauron. Where is the top flight talent going to come from? Where is that factored in? Enough Rudy Ruettiger's and Vince Papale's. It's not a coincidence that the last time the Bills were great, was when they had 4 HOF players on the team, with a HOF Coach, led by a brash QB who didn't even want to be here originally.

Buffalo fans and the organizations like blue collar because it's safe. Coaches and GMs can buy time and stay in their jobs longer because they can talk about always building for long term success. Fans can stay in their safe space, dreaming about a parade that Mom and Dad didn't get to see, while muttering about how rigged everything is. There are no expectations or standards. The Sabres GM came out yesterday and said things like "it's hard to win in the second half because teams are trying harder" (in 2019 that's a valid reason is his mind), that leading the league in points for one day in November was an "accomplishment", that he sees "progress" despite 11 total wins since the 10-game win streak, and that patience is key because "we're a young team". Any reason Buffalo organizations can find to lower the bar and act like acquiring Draft Picks is the goal.....

March 2017 signings. Who was the GM?

Yeah you're right, facts never helped add clarity to any debate. I stated that exact same thing in this thread, that a correction factor could be applied to Brown's numbers.

Hyde - Nice Safety, not elite. Whaley signing by the way. Poyer - Same as Hyde Edmunds - Not elite as a rookie. White - Very good. Milano - Not elite, but a quality NFL player. Allen - Pedestrian rookie numbers, not elite McCoy - Well past his prime Eichel - A Top 25 NHL player, but not a Top 5 player. Not as good as McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Matthews, and so on. Skinner - His best season ever, consistent 30 goal scorer. Reinhart - #2 overall Draft Pick, a decent starting NHL player, better than Sam Bennett Mittlestadt - Ready to be the #2 Center at the NHL Level? No. Again, not much ELITE level talent there. And that translates to poor seasons for both teams. I didn't personally insult anyone. I just think the Buffalo fan base adopts the same low standards that the organizations do. They convince themselves that winning is around the corner when there is no evidence to support that. I don't care that Jason Botterill tries really hard, or that Brandon Beane thinks that he has a plan. So far there are no results. So once again, its blindly believe in their 3-year plan.

I'll address all of this. 1. Congratulations to the Bills, who the 1964 and 1965 AFL Championship, with 8 total teams, 54 years ago. 2. Antonio Brown at 30 is a 4-time All Pro, 7x Pro-Bowler, has 837 catches for 11,207 yards and 74 TDs. Andre Reed retired at 36 years old, with 7x Pro Bowls, 951 catches for 13,198 yards and 87 TDs. One more season and Brown is on the door step of Reed's numbers, and one season past that he will pass Andre Reed is every major category. He's not guaranteed, of course he could get hurt. But it's debatable. His peak is better. 3. They are devoid of talent. The Sabres have one-line. The Bills best offensive player is Robert Foster? Outside of Trey White and Jack Eichel, what do you have? Dahlin and who? I liked Kyle Williams too. It's shame he never got a chance to play for a good team so that he could see the Playoffs. It's a credit to him for the loyalty he showed to the Bills, but it most certainly capped his career.

AFL is not the Super Bowl. That's 50+ years ago and nobody cares about that anymore. Andre Reed got into the HOF based on longevity, not peak performance. His numbers are nowhere near Antonio Brown's in terms of pace or high end production. Now we could apply a curve to Brown and say he played in an easier NFL in terms of clutching and grabbing, but his numbers are on pace to annihilate Reed's. Actually I did point out T.White by name when saying the Bills best talent. Outside of him though ........ Congrats Sabres, 4 years in with Eichel and not even a sniff at 8th place in the Eastern Conference. When is he going to score 40 goals by the way? Maybe the real truth is that as good as he is, he is not Connor McDavid, who was the real ace in that Draft. But can't say that.

Here we go again, take more shots at the quality of my life which you know nothing about. I haven't been harassed at all. Outside of Buffalo, the Bills and Sabres are irrelevant, they don't come up in conversation. The NHL is a distant 4th in the United States, and the Bills are one of the least covered teams in the NFL. But locally, its not just me "taking it out on the fans", radio personalities in Buffalo are beginning to openly speak out the weak mantras coming from OBD and Key Bank Center. I think simply that the Bills and Sabres have had long enough. The owners don't speak, there are no results, and there are no standards. The Bills want to out-culture the league, and the Sabres are still looking in the mirror for the answers.

Amen. A top flight NFL talent on the Bills! Yes he may want the ball. Yes will want to be paid. Yes he will be competitive. But he would immediately be the most talented Bills WR in the history of the Franchise, except for TO who historically is Top 5, but was trending down at the time he was on the Bills.

I don't know why anyone listens to the John Murphy Show. It's homer radio. Three hours of Bills propaganda. Except Chris Brown is another paid employee. So it's powder puff stories about Jason Croom's development, or Alexander's great leadership, or a fire-side chat with Kim Pegula about how much she loves WNY. None of it translates to any real understanding of the game.

Why would Allen only be able to get AB the ball 12 times in 3 games? Isn't he supposed to be the Franchise QB? Our GM and Coach and Bills PR are selling him as the Future, so how come the standard is so low? Or have we seen this movie before with Trent Edwards and TO? I'm not angry, and I'm not ranting. But it's clear that with Buffalo sports fan you can't tell the truth. You can't say - this town has low sports self esteem and the organizations have no standards. As a fan, you have to be a bobblehead that agrees with McDermott's premise that "out-culturing" the league is the path the to Promise Land or other fans get upset with you.

"i have a feeling you harm yourself after every bills loss" - How is that not a conduct violation? What kind of statement is that? Did I say anything that vile to you? The OP of this thread was the Bills (and their fans) don't want AB because they buy into the idea that he is a cancer. Since 1999, the Bills and Sabres have largely stopped winning (outside of the Sabres 2006/2007 Eastern Conference Championship appearances). Twenty years of Coaches telling you the virtues of outworking the rest of the league, while most times having few Top 5 type players on their team. Despite that, fans continue to echo the Coaches with the Stay the Course mindset. It's not working. Jeremy White has talked in recent days that the Sabres and Bills have no standards, and I agree with him. The organizations talk about how hard they work, yet, no Playoffs for the Sabres since 2011, one Playoff appearance for the Bills since 1999, a 3-point losing effort in Jacksonville. If working hard is going to be your mantra, then you have to explain to your fans how that meaningful differentiates yourself from the rest of the league. When have the Bills shown recently they can't draft and grow elite talent? Who? Is T.White the best example we have? Their draft history is a litany of busts and average performers. So if the Draft is the key strategy (not unique at all) and showing up on time to meetings, then the Bills have to outsmart the rest of the league, and they have not shown they can do that. What culture is here that he could destroy? A 6-win team? Josh Allen's progress will be stalled throwing to Antonio Brown? He can't handle AB yelling back at him? Or demanding the football? How about our Coach, who loves to tell you that he's seen it all in this league, done it all, been a part of two rebuilds. Why couldn't he handle AB? What about leaders like Alexander to council him?

Both Buffalo teams are devoid of talent. Neither team can score. Antonio Brown would be the best WR to ever put on a Bills uniform, outside of only TO historically. But the thought is dismissed out of hand by some of our fans because he would be too big of a distraction, or "not worth the money". In Buffalo, nobody is worth the money. We haven't won a Playoff game since 1995, but sure, let's continue to out-culture the rest of the league, led by McDermott who has never won anything in his professional life. I'm not saying you trade your draft pick pile for him, or give the Steelers what they want, but take a look at our 2nd and 3rd Round picks over the years, AB is better than all of them, easily. So keep holding onto the precious draft picks. You "disrespect AB and that won't change" - did you mean not respect? Otherwise that makes no sense, unless you are flipping him the bird at games or something. Of course you're happy with the current state of the Bills. There are no real expectations. 7 wins is technically an improvement, and we can ride the continuity excuse train a little longer. McDermott has shown little IMO that he has a grasp of the current NFL. Same with Beane. His head is in Carolina still. In love with Cam Newton and cast off Panther culture guys. Not very much in the way of quality Free Agents so far. I agree with you. This is a big season for the Bills. All the excuses are gone. They have their hand picked QB. They have cash. They have draft picks. They have ownership backing. They have their culture. I don't see why 10 wins is not the expectation next year. The Jets have a new Head Coach, as do the Dolphins. Brady will be 42 years old next season. Shouldn't that be 4-2, 5-1 in-division? Or are we going to get excuses about how hard the schedule is?

You’re not under my skin or teef. The OP was right. A segment of Buffalo sports fans have a loser mindset. They make excuses for mediocre results, tend to highlight average accomplishments as historic and have convinced themselves that talent equals locker room cancer. Players like AB and Beckham are dismissed out of hand as character risks, even though AB is better than any Bills WR to put on a uniform and Odell trails only Reed. Again, I’m the one who’s a B word, but it’s you hurling the personal insults. You know nothing about me, my career, my wife or kids.

Look at ddaryl throwing personal insults, around joined by teef. Another reason I can’t stand our franchises, our fans. The loser mentality is baked into everything they do. Someone gives an opinion to the OP and they are chastised because they don’t palm-palm waive and hopelessly defend these franchises. But this is Buffalo, a place where you simply have to be grateful for a team, and not have any standards. ROTFLMAO!!!! Our teams have sucked for a combined 108 seasons. 0 championships. It’s so funny, lol, giggles ddaryl.

Because both Buffalo franchises are historically bad, and because of that, fans of our teams have low sports self esteem. Buffalo clings to the Rudy Ruettiger, Vince Papale underdog, hope beyond hope stories because they see it as a reflection of themselves. The Seabiscuits of the NFL and NHL. The Little Engine that Could. Our teams build around Chris Kelsay and buy it when the organization spins guys like Steve Johnson as a cancer. The Bills and Sabres have been rebuilding for so long, the Draft is our Super Bowl and so anything that takes away from Draft picks is hated. Because the Draft picks, according to those fans, represent the golden ticket to being good someday. We trade away anyone that has talent for culture reasons - Marshawn Lynch, Jason Peters, Patrick Kane, Ryan O'Reilly, Marcell Dareus, Sammy Watkins, Ronald Darby, letting Pat Williams go because he wanted too much money, trying a one-year stunt for Terrell Owens to sell tickets. Talent is always "not worth it" according to Bills fans. The phrase "he doesn't want to be here" gets thrown around all the time. Coach after coach, we've hired here has an old mentality - Dick Jauron, Doug Marrone, Dan Bylsma, Phil Housley, Sean McDermott specifically have a "we're going to outwork everyone" mindset. They reinforce the notion that talent is a headache, and that culture is the ticket. Our fans are gullible. They believe it. You have fans tripping over themselves on this board to give McDermott and Beane more time. They get free passes for mediocre results. We won't trade for Odell Beckham, we'll watch the Patriots do it and mutter about Brady cheating under our breaths like the losers that we are. Chris Brown will do a puff piece about how Josh Allen had one of the best rookie seasons ever, and how taking OTA reps will catapult him in Year 2.

Lendale White