Straight Hucklebuck

Who would you rather have Joe, Winston or Barkley? Give me a break with this.

Right, which is why Winston would have been an upgrade at backup QB over Barkley and almost assuredly Fromm. But the Bills are not going to do that number one because he’s a real threat to Allen, and of course the money.

Matt Barkley, 10 career TDs passes verses 21 Interceptions Jameis Winston 121 career TDs passes verses 88 interceptions. Call me old fashioned but Matt Barkley flat out sucks.

Because how often is there a situation like the 2020 offseason where a 5,000 yard passer in his prime taken #1 overall is/was available, along with the 2011 #1 overall pick and an MVP winner. Yeah, I would take 30-Int Winston over Barkley, and no I don’t think Allen has proved he is better than Winston. But the Bills have invested the draft capital in Allen, so that means you go with a non-threatening backup.

The Bills need to scour cuts for linebackers. They are T H I N.

Sounds like a lot of the discontent are two things: 1. The Bills took a RB in Round 3, not OL or WR. If that's the case, it fits the growing trend that RB's are interchangeable and there is no need to draft them before Round 4. With that said, Moss seemed to be the last of the elite producers. After him, it did seem as if there was a drop off in college production. 2. The Bills took a QB in the 5th who is a long-shot to make it in the NFL, even as a backup QB. But Beane and McDermott have had a blind spot at QB. Drafting Peterman, starting Peterman 2x, acquiring AJ McCarron who flopped, and talking Derek Anderson out of retirement. In a perfect world you sign Winston, and know you have a capable backup. But we know what that implies, you're spending real money on a backup and it puts Josh on notice. So we don't go that route. Instead, we go with weaker armed, game managers. The Bills have protected their starters (sometimes despite marginal results) for years. What can you do? After the 5th Round, the Kicker pick was meh, unless he becomes the starting Kicker and can hit 50+ yarders.

I think all of this is fair. I liked the Bills logic and path in this draft, because they have adopted full competition everywhere on offensive. They have reversed course from their 2017-2018 skill position debacles. The structure of the Bills draft would have had to change to accommodate an OL. Maybe the Bills could have still gone Epenesa in Round 2 because he was BPA, but certainly to get a quality offensive lineman, the pick in the 3rd Round wouldn't have been Moss. Can we really see a 4th Round OLineman getting the reps that Moss will get? OL in the 3rd shoves RB down to Round 4 or 5, and by that point the WR's were picked over. That's where you're right about Fromm. Mediocre athlete with a weak arm, the Bills are banking on him being a student of the game. He does sound a lot like Barkley, who fell in the 2013 Draft for the same reasons, weak arm, less than ideal size, despite playing at high level D1 School. I think a few more more things: 1. The Bills are too thin at Linebacker for my tastes. You get past Edmunds, Milano and Klein, and its Vosean Joseph and ....... I was surprised they couldn't find a way to get a linebacker in this draft. Carter Coughlin lasted until the 7th. Instead of Fromm, were there any LB's available. Troy Dye fell to the 4th, maybe he would have been that linebacker instead of Davis. 2. I think we have to keep in mind how active the Bills have been in FA the last two years. They lost two defensive lineman, but signed 3, and drafted another in the 2nd Round on top of Oliver last year. They lost Kevin Johnson at corner (who stunk anyways), and signed Gaines and Norman (last year out of camp they only kept 4 corners). They added Diggs at WR, and signed another couple offensive lineman in FA. I think they looked at their roster and tried to pick positions where guys would actually stick. 3. On Kicker, for that pick to "work" he needs to beat out Hauschka this year. This Bills did this a few years ago when they took Dustin Hopkins. They didn't have the stomach to ride out the misses and bailed. Now the Redskins have had a decent kicker for years. But I think the Bills were right to flag anything over 50 yards was off the table last year, a problem that got worse and worse. Will the Bills have the stomach to ride out the misses early so this pick makes sense? If they don't it's a wasted 6th Round pick.

This is a definite blow to the Bills never get any respect card.

It’s a late 6th Round pick, if he’s David Nelson for a year or two than so be it. I think part of the thinking is competition amongst the lower level WRs to see if that portion of the roster can be improved. Let’s throw two guys in there that improved every year of college and had 25 TDs between them. Every week last year it someone new - Isaiah McKenzie jet sweeps then he’d be inactive the next week, when is Foster getting out of the dog house, where is Duke Williams, can Andre Roberts be a real WR. And that WR that fans wanted, Antonio Gables Golden? He was 6’4” too and his first flag was speed, speed, speed. Not too many Moss’s out there.

They’re all there with their little notebooks, pencils and stop watches every year.

I call BS on this. A lot of Coaches and GMs say they don’t take much away from the Combine. But then Henry Ruggs is the first WR taken ahead of a great route runner, why? 4.27. Then Trey Adams isn’t drafted. Why? Because he posted a 5.62 and other ghastly numbers.

I’m happy to discuss pessimism, it’s how we think critically instead of being a pom pom waiver. I think you have to consider how active the Bills have been in Free Agency. When you lose Shaq Lawson and Jordan Phillips, but then bring in Jefferson, Butler and Addison and draft Espenesa, there isn’t much value in drafting an additional lower round lineman. You have three other DEs in Murphy, Hughes and Johnson. Same at Corner. Bills signed Norman and Gaines, lost Johnson. But have Taron Johnson, Levi Wallace, White, and resigned Marlowe. I thought the Bills draft followed a logical path outside of the fact that they didn’t draft a linebacker. Beane said Frank Gore played last year because of his physical nature. So the Bills had success drafting a 22-year old 3rd Rounder last year, so they went ahead with a proven college producer in that physical mold. Huge college production, high broken tackle rate. Instead of over paying old veterans whose best days are behind them like Ivory, Tolbert and Gore, the Bills have moved forward and learned their lesson. Same thing at WR. The Bills have set up a system of competition. Diggs, Brown and Beasley are set. But the Bills are smart to not rely on Foster one game and Duke Williams in another and Isaiah McKenzie in another. They now have Foster, Williams, Roberts, McKenzie, Davis and Hodgins competing for three spots. It will heat up Training Camp. Mims would have been redundant. One of the blind spots for McDermott and Beane has been backup QB. Peterman, McCarron, Anderson and even Barkley to a degree are poor options. So try again with an SEC QB with three years of starting experience. The Bills could have brought Winston in, but they would face the prospect of Allen facing real pressure. Again the Bills could have tried a 5th Round Guard, but how likely were they to crack the 8-man OLine. That’s one aspect of the Draft I liked. The Bills got guys with huge college production. Both WRs improved their numbers every season, Espensa was a double digit sack guy, Moss had over 4,000 yards rushing. And in all cases they’re young, 21 or 22. Not 23, 24 with missionary visits. And kicker, well if Bass can put 50-yarders back on the map it helps this offense. But most times kickers have to get cut and bounce around some before sticking. I think the Bills should have worked in a linebacker. It’s one of the few positions we’re still thin.

The Browns are really solid on offense though. Conklin and Wills added at OT, Beckham and Landry at WR, Hooper and Njoku at Tight End and Chubb/Hunt in the backfield. And we’re really so sure that Josh Allen has left Baker Mayfield in the dust? Because I’m not just yet.

It's also unpopular, by Whaley was the GM for Hyde and Poyer. I get it, the Bills have made the Playoffs twice with McDermott, so we like McDermott, so he gets the credit. But I don't think it was McDermott completing the tape study to where his notes overrode the scouts. Of course Whaley was being phased out, but it was his group that did the bulk of the 2017 offseason work.

But McDermott didn’t complete all 2017 Draft Scouting for the Bills in 4 months. Whaley had a college staff and a pro personnel staff. The owner of the team said it didn’t make sense to relieve Whaley until after the draft because of the scouting effort.

I like Diggs and all, but aren’t we inflating his abilities a bit? He’s been in the league 5 years now and has two 1,000 yard seasons. He is among the several #1 type WR’s in the league, but is not a Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones HOF presence. I doubt NFL Defensive Coordinators are dumb-founded with things that they can try to slow down Allen, Diggs, Brown and Beasley. It’s more of a reflection of how far the Bills have come since trotting out Benjamin, Kerley and Jordan Matthews a few years ago.

We mostly agree. His character is great, work ethic, team player, coach ability all of that. I expect another modest improvement this season, but I don’t see a massive jump. That’s my read. But the Bills FO has done everything they can to improve the talent.

I think you’re selling Mahomes short. Right now his first two seasons are Dan Marino in terms of numbers. He’s way past “really good”. He’s playing at a HOF level. The Bills still largely have to win the same way. They need to get teams into a tight, low scoring game and win 19-16 until proven otherwise. There should be development with Allen and Diggs, but I highly doubt we see an offense around 30 ppg, I don’t think Allen projects as that kind of QB.

Allen improved relative to his rookie self. 2018 was 175 ypg, 1 TD and 1 Int per game. Last year it was 190 yards a game and 1.5 TDs while cutting down the interceptions and keeping his rushing TDs in play. What he needs to do now is improve his play verses the NFL standard. In 2018, the Bills averaged 15 ppg with a laughable talent base, in 2019 it jumped up 19.5 ppg with Brown and Beasley and flushing McCoy out the door. We could see a jump to 24 - 25 ppg this season. But one thing that is true is that Allen has never put up numbers in college or so far in the pros that predict a top flight offense, capable of scoring 28-32 ppg. He has yet to break fully from his Scouting Reports which said elite tools but raw. He still functions as a game manager, not a playmaker.

Hey Bills fans, I know we’re really excited about Diggs and Allen, but Mahomes and their HOF Coach and skill players have put up 76 aerial touchdowns vs 18 interceptions in two years en route to an MVP and Super Bowl Championship. Can we show a little humility and acknowledge real results as opposed to romancing our first round collapse against Houston? Let’s put up back to back winning seasons and get out of the first round before declaring that we could give the Chiefs problems huh?

You can’t be serious. Mahomes is off to the best QB start to a career in NFL history. As good as the Bills defense is, no way are they keeping the Chiefs to under 17 points so that Allen and the offense can muster 19 for the win.

We’ll see on the Bills offensive line. Beane has done a good job getting an influx of players in so that true camp battles can be had. I’m not as sold that the same players brought back will play much better than we’ve seen, with the exception of Ford. Where does Josh Allen have a book of “big time” throws from the pocket? His best two of the year were the Cowboys game with the Beasley throw and the throw out his own end zone. The Ravens have an identity an draft accordingly. Likewise the Bills have an offensive scheme and have Coaching continuity. Listen, we act like Allen offers ceiling that Lamar Jackson doesn’t have, but we’ve yet to see that in actual games. This is all a feeling based on the “tools” section of a scouting report, not actual games.

The Bills went 10-6, scored 314 points. The Ravens went 14-2, scored 531 points. We struggled with the Texans, they smoked the Texans by 34 points. They also crushed New England, a team Brandon Beane acknowledged the Bills couldn’t beat, and they also beat the 49ers. It’s just my opinion, but given their acquisitions in FA, their full compliment of draft picks, we are solidly behind them in the AFC, at minimum until Josh Allen shows a higher gear.

Baltimore has the reigning MVP, multiple rugged backs, one of the best secondaries in the NFL and just upgraded numerous pieces in their Front 7 defensively. They also have an experienced GM, steady ownership and a Super Bowl winning Veteran Coach. The Bills are not in their league yet.

I think a few things. 1. I liked the Bills strategy in this draft. I agree with you that finally the Bills have a team with quality depth (outside of Linebacker), so it’s not the old days of Nate Clements walks, so now there is a hole at cornerback, or Jason Peters is traded and so now we have Demetress Bell playing LT. The old Bills would have taken cornerbacks you’ve never heard of in the second round, taken Centers and tried to convert them into Guards, take large Safeties and put them at Linebacker. 2. So competition now defines the offense. We have Diggs, Beasley, Brown, Foster, Williams, McKenzie, Roberts, Davis and Hodgins all fighting for their place in the pecking order. Can Knox take a stranglehold on the Tight End room? I’m glad we did not do what the Saints did and give up 3-4 picks for a decent Tight End. The Bills kept Gore on the field last year because they wanted his physical style, now they have a 22 year old that plays that way, not Chris Ivory, Mike Tolbert or 97 year old Frank Gore. We’ve got a million lineman now that can compete for 8 jobs. Barkley isn’t going to handed the backup job. So far the Beane/McDermott regime has fumbled the backup QB position with guys like McCarron, Peterman, Anderson. And Barkley stunk last year when forced to play. Fromm can come in and see if he can displace Barkley. A guy from a big college, 3 years, some nice wins. Peterman didn’t work, talking guys out of retirement doesn’t work (Orton, Anderson), taking other teams backups and making them compete doesn’t work (Kolb, Holcomb), resurrecting careers doesn’t work (Brohm). 3. Speaking of which, the Bills did two things I liked. All their picks Rounds 2, 3, 4, 5 and Hodgins in the 6th produced big numbers in college. So they stopped with the projecting and just got players who dominated on tape. Also, they didn’t draft 23 and 24 year olds. They got a few guys who are 21, the rest 22 and have not played their best football yet. They weren’t dipping for Special Teams only guys in the 3rd and 4th Round. 4. don’t think we have to anoint Allen. He needs to improve by NFL standards now, not just improvement compared to himself. I don’t think we can kick our feet up and think the QB position is solved. Yes Allen improved, and willed the Bills to some gutsy victories. But he had a defense that held opponents to 16.2 ppg and the schedule and QBs on that schedule were weak. The Bills finally have invested heavily in the offense. No more pop gun football hoping to wait for a mistake by the other team and win 17-13. Allen needs to make a jump, otherwise he is the piece holding the team back. Nice guy, great competitor, but I don’t think he’s done enough with the fumbling and high stakes games to close the door. And that’s a protective mechanism from the old days. We want to feel good about what’s going on so we call the search for a franchise QB over too quickly, our old GM called Fitz a franchise QB, fans sided with Marrone when Steve Johnson was traded for running irregular touts, some fans made post after post about Tyrod being the guy. We’ll know if Allen gets there when the Bills get out of the teens in scoring and Allen starts putting up more than an occasional dominant performance. The Bills FO has upgraded the talent significantly, without making the offense too old.