Straight Hucklebuck

Moss will be an upgrade over Gore. No quasi about it. Every carry given to Gore was a wasted play.

Another artificial situation added to the game. So like overtime, instead of just playing football, it’s now the game isn’t over if you kick a field goal first. Take a knee, get 25% of the field handed to you instead of 20%. Take out kicking the onsides and just hand the ball to the offense.

It’s how you view the world. I just never needed my hosts to sweet talk and spin every Bills story positively. I didn’t need Chris Brown to trumpet the arrival of Doug Marrone after the 5-day “no stone unturned” Coaching search, or explain how big WRs with a large catch radius would help their young QBs, or how Trent Edwards gave the Bills a chance in every game because he didn’t turn the ball over. Chris has been with the Bills forever. He loves every move they make, he marginalizes other teams success, and asks the softest questions I have ever heard postgame. He has learned to repeat cliches that our bad Coaches over the years have said. That’s his knowledge of football. I don’t learn anything because he is a common fan with a microphone. He doesn’t “know” football, just like Sal doesn’t “know” football. They listen to the same Coaches press conferences as we do, and tell you what they say. There is no Jay Glazer/Adam Schefter type inside information. Just keep bringing Greg Cosell on so we can get accurate, film based opinions on the Bills. That part they got right.

And you thought John Murphy was homer radio. Chris Brown? The guy who asks the most powderpuff, pillow fight questions after games. I never listen to OBL because I don’t learn anything new, and with Chris Brown leading the show now I have even less interest in hearing him repeat the general platitudes and cliches that he has learned to repeat over the years from the all the Coaches he has outlived over the years. Chris loves everyone, every Coach, every QB, every system. The Bills are always on the verge of winning according to Chris.

Whatever mental hoops you want to jump through to elevate Allen, you go right ahead.

They had a PFF guest on WGR 550 this afternoon with Schopp and Bulldog. As a rookie 26.7% of Allen’s passes were inaccurate/uncatchable. That number was 26.0% last year. Highest in the league. And of all his plays, 20% were graded negatively, down with Mitchell Trubisky. So whether you completely dismiss the analysis of PFF or just go off the conventional statistics, it’s clear Allen is a bottom 1/3rd NFL QB right now.

The Rams has a bunch of high end talent. As soon as that talent was paid (Goff, Cooks, Gurley, Donald) they plateaued. Also they have been very loose with spending with draft picks (two first rounders spent on Ramsey). The Bills should keep looking to improve the offensive line and linebacker play, but really this comes down to how good Allen is.

1. On whether McDermott has plateaued or not? I don't think so. When he came to Buffalo it was all about establishing a physical run game, leading with defense, the same lines we heard from Jauron, Marrone and Rex. Last year McDermott showed a willingness to go for it on 4th-Down, and to pass the ball more often. The Bills investment in WR further establishes a willingness to get out of the 60/40 to 50/50 run split and go more modern. Frank Gore being flushed is a good sign. 2. The Patriots dominated for 20-years. I don't think any franchise, Bills included, are going to replicate what they did in the near future. It's unprecedented. 3. I am thankful the Pegula's kept the Bills in Buffalo. I think McDermott is steady, I think Beane is savvy with a better mix of aggressiveness than Whaley had. But when you say its all come together now, I don't see it yet. The Bills went 10-6 with an easy schedule last year. To see the Bills whip Dallas on Thanksgiving was as proud of the Bills as I have been in 15 years. But the Playoff game left me with a familiar feeling - trying to salvage a moral victory from a loss that should have been a win. The only thing that matters is ending the 1995 Playoff win drought. 4. Fully believe "Allen will be a Hall of Fame quarterback" - See I don't think that at all. Statistics say that is going to be a rare outcome. Out of all the players ever in the NFL, all the Quarterbacks, 26 are in the HoF. Allen is a longshot to make it. 5. I can see the Bills having some level of success in the coming years. Being a steady Playoff team. But I can't expect Super Bowl appearances and AFC East Titles. We've never seen that outside of 1988 - 1993. If Allen is a Top 10 QB and MVP type player, we'll get there. But that is a statistical longshot. Allen doing that is an outlier to the entire scouting process. A low-production, high tool player from a small D1 school. It'd be rare.

I agree, and never made the case that he will not get any better from Year 2 Allen. I just question if he can reliably crack Top 10.

Nobody is denying Allen is a part of the excitement, or that finally there are legitimate expectations for the team. The only thing I opined was that I am not sure Allen will improve enough to be Top 10. We have never seen that from him at Wyoming or in the NFL. That's it.

Agree again. He did improve greatly from Year One to Year Two on his performance. And I’ll say again, I throw out 2018 because he was a rookie and his supporting skill players and offensive line was horrendous. The key now will be the improvement towards the NFL standard, not just a comparison to the 2018/2019 Allen.

This is 100% accurate. He's 6'5", 230 with a rocket arm and good mobility, with limited college production. I think he reminded Beane and McDermott of Cam Newton, because Beane works Cam's name into a lot of interviews when discussing Allen unprompted.

I don't care FireChans, because you have a big bag of nothing to present that he is on an arc towards Top 10. The reality says its more likely he becomes an average starter. And that's okay, he isn't a bust or anything if that's where he lands, just means the Bills will have to support like they've done roster wise and stability wise.

Did I call it a surprise? No, I said it was delusional based on what we've seen that its 83% likely that Allen becomes a Top 10 QB. I think its more reasonable, based on what we've seen that he becomes an average starter. So, that is not the same as saying he stinks, or whatever embellishment you can come up with. With all that said, I feel that we should know 90% of who Allen will become after this season. I don't think in Year 4, 5, 6, 7 he suddenly gets much better. Feel free to disagree, but once again, who goes on the attack? And who has stayed factual. You get emotionally hurt and lash out because you are attached to the team. I want the Bills to win, but I don't twist the results to fit the narrative. Maybe Allen blows everyone away this year, me included. He becomes great, 4,000 yards, scoring plays. I will be the first one to claim I was wrong. Didn't see it coming. It's not that big of a deal.

This is the classic line I was waiting for. Yup, that's me, lived 20 minutes from the stadium for 24 years of my life, but yes I want pain and suffering on all WNY, just so that I can stand on the glorious Mountain Top of TBD and yell out, I was right on Josh Allen. Yes, that's my end goal, you're right, not attending a Super Bowl parade Downtown. Rather, bypass all that so I can yell out how right I was on Josh Allen...

The poll is on twobillsdrive, inside this thread, where Bills fans reside. That's 83% that I'm referring to. Thanks. Furthermore, you don't have a factual leg to stand on. He wasn't an elite passer in college, and hasn't been so far. Now, I've said in other threads that I throw out 2018 because he was a rookie, with deplorable skill position players and a bad offensive line. But other than banking on his work ethic to correct mistakes, I'm not convinced of a can't-miss trajectory towards Top 10. Can he get to middle of the road? Yes, I can see that.

Stafford was the 1st overall pick out of the SEC. In Stafford's third year in the league he threw for 5,000 yards and 41 TDs. A lot of QBs could have led the Bills last year. Sorry, that's the truth. The defense allowed 16.2 ppg. The schedule was soft. Allen isn't a tire fire. But you'd have to be projecting to say he is on a path to being a top flight NFL passer based on his college career and first two seasons. And I think 90% of Allen will be baked in at the end of this year. You'll know, and I'm in support of the Bills giving him all the starts, all the reps, all the time he needs to improve, no issues there. Do it. Surround him with talent, go for it.

Given Allen's first two years, his Scouting Reports coming out of College, I think its delusional that 83% of fans think he will be a Top 10 QB for the Bills. Have we seen any consistency that indicates this? His running? What are we looking at here? He is a bottom 1/3rd NFL QB right now, and has to jump at least 12 more QBs to crack the Top 10. I understand being hopeful, I understand the argument that he can improve and has improvement left, but 83% confident he becomes a Top 10 QB in the league? That's not based on facts, that's just hope.

Cam won a Heisman, won a National Championship, was drafted #1 overall, threw for 4,000 yards right away in the NFL, won an MVP. Josh was never an elite player in lower level college, was drafted on his skill set not his production on the field, and thus far has not shown to be a consistent NFL passer. I think in Buffalo we overrate the work ethic, the blue collar, the swell guy, and underrate winning and production. Like Buffalo is the only team out there studying their playbooks and working hard. We also love to declare war on "me-first" guys. Cam was the face of the Panthers for 8-9 seasons.

The raw designation starts to lose its luster if he gets through 16 games this season. He does that and its 44 games played, 43 started. I am trying to decide between the first two options. Do I see the Bills not renewing his contract, not sure, Beane and McDermott love him. Do I see a big extension, hard to see that either. I think I'm going with an Andy Dalton type career, can get a team to the Playoffs if the talent is great around him, but not a lot of Playoff success. Gets a middle of the road of second contract.

Allen threw for 193 ypg (take out the last game and he cracks 200 ypg), 30th in the league. His completion percentage was 32nd. He was tied for 21st in TD passes. He was 24th in Rating. His offense scored 19.6 ppg. He is not an average NFL passer yet.

I don't think Allen ever becomes a Top 10 QB. I think a lot of starting Quarterbacks around the league could have done what Allen did last year with that schedule and that defense. It would be new data point for him to become a top flight passer. At the end of this season, I think we will have seen 90% of his potential maximum, so I don't think he is on some linear or exponential climb in Year 4, 5, 6, and so on. We'll see the bulk of the improvement he has left, this season.

I was a fan of Watkins being shipped, I was not sure on Dareus, but that was proven right and I’ve learned that DTs on massive salaries aren’t usually not worth it. I did not like the Darby trade, and supported the Ragland trade, I also didn’t mind Corey Glenn leaving. But I wasn’t referring to those moves blowing up in their faces. I was referring to the Bills first rounds of fill in’s - the Matthews, Webb, Ivory, Tolbert, Kerley, talking Anderson out of retirement, K. Clay, Benjamin, Lee Smith. Those guys maybe hard workers/physical, but they’re fringe NFL players. I think Beane learned his lesson when he saw the neutered Bills offense in 2018, and has got it mostly right since by trying to get players in their prime to surround Allen. The Gore signing and Greg Olsen attempt are things I can live without, but now the offense can have open competition because there is a clear order and the bottom of the group is full of veterans and young draft picks. The Bills were a tear down project, because their roster was maxed out when McDermott arrived. No franchise QB, the players that were here were not young enough to win Playoff games. Whaley had squandered too many drafts so the team had no depth anywhere.

Shaw, the other thing I think when I read what you write about Beane and McDermott is: you act like because they have a plan, built partially on elite culture, that it is some guarantee to work. McDermott could think a number of different things about football philosophy. Doesn't mean its going to work. You say it like its a certainty. He has this plan, you display a misunderstanding. He's 0-2 in the Playoffs here. And his offense has cost him both wins. How did the Bengals improve enough to make the Playoffs 5 straight years? The strung 3 good drafts in a row together (Dunlap, Atkins, Green, Dalton, Jones, Sanu) and built an elite secondary via the draft/free agency (Nelson, Joseph, Jones). How did the Seahawks improve? They got Okung, Chancellor, Thomas, Wagner, Wilson, Wright, Sherman all in about 2-3 drafts in a row. Carroll was 7-9 before that. Did Marvin Lewis suddenly learn how to Coach from 2011 to 2015 and then decided to not work hard?

Cam isn't here because he is a legitimate threat to Josh. Same reason the Bills had no interest in Winston.