Rochesterfan

So the options are call it a non-game and go to winning percentage - which you don’t like or force the Bills and Bengals to play a game alone sometime after week 18 and before the playoffs that puts both teams at a huge competitive disadvantage and most likely still gives KC home field advantage. Which do you want - people need to pick their poison here. Is it find a way in the next to weeks for the Bills and Bengals to play 3 games? Call it a no contest and basis the playoffs on winning percentage? There are no rules to make up a fake tie, award both teams wins, flip a coin to decide - so none of those are options. There are only 2 and both suck, but calling it a no game keeps all the teams involved in the playoff and has minor negative impact. Trying to find a way to shoehorn in an extra game between Sunday and next weekends playoff is completely ludicrous and if they push the playoffs back and force a single Buffalo/Cincinnati game can you imagine how much bad press that will generate as the Bills have to return to the scene and every other playoff teams get byes to get ready and KC has to sit for 2 weeks. The easiest answer is what the Bills have already said they expect - the game will not be made up - moving the seeding to win% as discussed during Covid and keeping all of the schedules the same. Every choice has positive and negative impacts - that choice limits it as much as possible. Not really fair as it gives all of the wild card teams a week off and time to gameplan and prepare and the Bills and Bengals get screwed having to play with no rest for the 2 mentally scarred teams. My guess is if that becomes the proposal- the Bills go to the NFLPA and refuse and it gets scrapped and the Bills take the loss. The Bills do not want to screw Cincinnati and that plan more than any other screws Cincinnati for being right their and supporting the Bills.

They do - people are just complaining because the plan involves winning percentage and therefore KC becomes the #1 seed. I am not sure why you do not think they have a plan. I believe it was ESPN earlier that posted the specific rules stating that it lies with the commissioner in any game either started or prior to that is cancelled or postponed to review and see if it can be played and if it can not be played - it is a non game for the purposes of records. They will look at options - they will decide it has little bearing and they will call it a non contest and then similar to the Covid plan last year - if there are an uneven number of games it will go to win %. People are jumping through trying to creat rules - like the NFL will award both teams a win, or a tie, or a coin toss and no of those are in the rules and will not be used. The NFL will follow exactly as it is laid out and when the Bills and Bengals say they can’t play and need to focus on the playoffs - they will rule it a non-event and they will only have 16 games. It will have no impact on who makes the playoffs and will have minor impact of seeding, but they will get the right teams in without screwing up the schedule.

Agreed - especially since it impacts not just the Bills and NE, but potentially the Jets, Miami, and Pittsburgh and who plays when and who plays whom.

Except if they push the Bills/NE game and the Cincinnati/Baltimore game back to even Monday - logistically that means none of the AFC playoff schedules could be done until Monday evening and by then it is a short week if an AFC team is expected to play Sat and doesn’t find out an opponent or venue until late Monday. Seems like a very bad idea.

Agreed - I could see pad makers looking to make changes - especially if they can get the impact data from the sensors on everyone’s pads, but I see no changes to the rules for this.

If they didn’t have Rooms for Monday night to stay over what are the chances today or tomorrow they can book 100s of rooms to come back. Logistically they make these reservations as the schedule is being shared not at the last minute. If they end up trying to force the game to be played - Which I believe the NFLPA will nix do to player mental state - it will require Buffalo to fly in and out the same day and I can not imagine the mental state the Bills would be in having to quickly flip around like that and return to the field the incident happened on. Leadership on the team wouldn’t allow it - so the NFL will be forced to review other options and work with the teams and my guess is they will agree that canceling is best and that if it means KC has the #1 seed - the teams will deal with that.

Yes, but in the event Cincinnati won last night - if the Chiefs won versus LV then they would have still been the #1 seed and still lost to both teams. Yes it sucks, but I do not see any way the Bills/Cincinnati play a game Wednesday or Thursday and then turn around and play later next week because their games against NE and Baltimore impact seeding and therefore it would impact the entire 1st round of games and prep time and who is in. They also are not going to get traction to skip back a week and have 1 game Bills/Cincinnati to finish while every other team has a bye and then expect either one or both to turn around with a massive disadvantage. The easiest and most logical thing is to call it a no game and then go by win%. Does it maybe help KC and maybe hurt Baltimore a bit - yep, but it keeps everything on track and allows the team time to recover. Additionally, the Bills already won in Arrowhead and Cincinnati did it last year - so yes it is a small advantage, but either Buffalo or Cincinnati were already going to have to go through KC and there was still a chance that both would of needed to. Win % has the smallest impact without forcing the Bills to immediately jump on a plane and re-live the experience before they have emotionally dealt with it. The league will be working with the teams to discuss options and based upon how honorable Cincinnati handled it so far - I think they would be accepting of a no contest outcome even if it made them a 3 seed.

So you believe while this was going on - Buck and Aikman called and spoke to NFL league officials in NY and were told by Vincent and Goodell that a five minute warmup and restarting the game was the plan. Or was the League - a person on the sideline providing them with what the Standard SOP is with limited knowledge of what other discussions may be occurring.

Yes - I think the league was quite busy dealing with other things associated with the events. At no time did they state the NFL told them it would be a five minute warmup. They did say they heard from the people on the field - so was the NFL decision makers on the field. I am sure the sideline reporter talked to the head of officiating who quoted standard SOP - a five minute warmup and then the game resumes and that is what Buck and Aikman quoted. That is also where Van Pelt got his info from the broadcast. I do not for a second believe anyone at ESPN was in contact with high up league officials during that break.

Again was Joe Buck getting his info directly from the NFL? More likely Buck and Aikman were getting info from the Referee assigned to them who stated the standard SOP is a five minute warm up and play resumes. People quoting Buck or Van Pelt as the NFL directed teams that the game would resume with a five minute break is stupid. They were not in contact with the league. Who was in contact with the league - it appears the Refs and the HC of each team and after their discussion the players were sent to the locker room. Following additional discussion - the game was suspended pending further discussion. I am not saying the NFL is 100% clear, but the decision to suspend a game needed league, both team, and NFLPA input and was not something that was decided in the time Hamlin was injured. Hence getting the players off and having time to discuss the entirety of the situation. Again - in the end the correct decision was made and the five minute thing was announced by people covering the game with no input or discussion with the league. It was based entirely on normal SOP for an abnormal situation. Edit: Honestly I believe Aikman and Buck had really no idea what to say and the 5 minute warmup was really them filling time as they couldn’t really talk about what was happening.

Scott Van Pelt asked about that several times, but never got an answer. He was assuming as that is what the broadcast stated. The sidelined reporters said the Bills huddled up and Diggs gave a speech, but the coaches and the Refs were still in discussion. Then word came to clear the field. The timing suggests the players and the on field Refs discussed a restart with the coaches - the coaches talked and made sure the league was aware the players were not ready. They cleared the field to allow time for the coaches to better get a feel and then the coaches and the league talked and came to a proper decision. There should be no blame - The league got it right - they consulted with the coaches who said it was a no go and they suspended the game. The league should make that decision in consultation with the teams and did just that. The five minute thing was just standard post big injury timing. Yes the league could have announced the suspension sooner, but it was obvious the Bills and Bengal players knew well before the announcement.

Exactly Correct - wish I could like this x 1000. Real time the NFL doesn’t have all the facts - the standard after this is to give the players 5 minutes and the coaches and Referees realized that was not going to happen. The game was officially called at 10:01, but they showed stuff at 9:30 to 9:45 that players were changing at that point they knew the game was done well before it was announced. You can be ticked at the NFL, but they worked with the team as they should and they made the correct call. People want to lay blame, but the truth is they got it right and the coaches and teams directed the decision as they should.

Yes they do. Even the NFLPA agreed that protocols were followed in the Bills game. He stumbled - they tested him for a concussion and he passed - they used an additional loophole to get him back on the field and have since closed that loophole. If they show no signs the independent team should not be responsible for pulling the player. If they show no signs on the field it becomes important for the player, his teammates, and the coaching and training staff to help identify a situation. Again - even in the GB game the NFLPA found nothing wrong and they have the most to gain. Things happen and symptoms develop sometimes 2 or 4 or even 24 hours later - how teams handle it at that point when presented is the key.

If we beat Cincinnati- there is no decision on how to play week 18 - you go all out and eliminate NE and secure the #1 seed. Their motivation is irrelevant- the Bills win in Cincinnati they have to beat NE and let everything fall into place.

Yes, but you don’t think Campbell and Detroit wouldn’t be itching to know GB out of the Playoffs. I actually don’t think it impacts that game very much - I think Detroit - even if eliminated- would want to do everything to eliminate GB and may actually be more aggressive since they have nothing to lose.

The original thread started out talking about how much better Mayfield looked with a competent HC and I just do not see a difference overall between Baker in LA and Baker at each of his other stops. Yes - it has been 100% a tough spot for him coming in mid season, but for most of the Raider game he looked unimpressive until the last drive and then got tons of credit for leading an impressive last drive on 4 days practice. Game 2 he was bad and again it was he is still learning. Game 3 versus Denver - he looked like an MVP candidate (significantly better than Mahomes) against a good defensive team, but Denver appeared to give up on that game early. Game 4 versus the Chargers he once again looked like a below average QB against a team that had something to play for. I guess in my mind - I would be very hesitant to assume with better coaching you are getting a better Mayfield. Depending on the injury to Stafford - Mayfield to me is a major step down from 2021 and before Stafford and is on par with injured 2022 Stafford. I also think you have built the Rams with WR talent that Stafford uses, but Baker is more a TE thrower - which was a big part of why OBJ had issues in Cleveland. I think sticking with Mayfield drives OBJ away from the Rams and back towards an east coast team. We will see how it goes and I am sure they would love to keep Mayfield, but I am not sure that a prove it deal gets it done there and I am not sure he is a great fit for the McVay offense long term.

So last week we had the Baker Mayfield “up” game and this week he was back “down”. I don’t know where he will end up or if he stays in LA, but my god is the man inconsistent. Barely over 100 yards in the SOFI “dome” and barely over 50% completions. He is the same player in LA - he was in Cleveland and Carolina - fine when ahead and below average when the game is on his shoulders.

Maybe - Ogbah could net them almost 10 million in a conversion, but with limited term left - it makes it nearly impossible to cut him. Byron Jones is a 14+ million cap hit. They could save 3 million+ cutting him, but then have to replace him. They can certainly find a bit of money to do what they need, but being that far over the cap without paying a QB makes things harder.

Howard doesn’t save them much for next year as his base is only 1.5 million. Hill can get them around 10 million converting base to a bonus and spreading that out the remains 4 years, but his signing bonus is enormous and makes it harder to get out as he ages.

This is just wrong for the protocol. The “whiplash” and hitting of the head has no impact on the observer deciding if they enter protocol or not. It doesn’t matter if it is his first and he has no documented concussions or if it is Tua or Morse with documented history - the hit to the head is irrelevant- they must show some signs/symptoms for the observer to pull him. Therefore; your whole premise that “IF THEIR OBSERVATION PEOPLE WERE PROPERLY TRAINED” is totally wrong. The observers are properly trained and per the NFL and more importantly the NFLPA - the observers followed protocol correctly and there was no issue with the play. Again - when Mitch Morse got his last concussion - he was not pulled by observers - he felt symptoms and self reported during the game. There is no reason that Tua couldn’t do the same. As the NFLPA stated - the protocol was followed and there was nothing done wrong. The NFLPA has also stated they are 100% against stratification of players to identify concussions because it will impact contracts as those players are more likely to be pulled for no reason mid-game.

How many players have had concussions in the NFL? How do you decide who to pull based on a routine play? The NFLPA made it clear they did not want players to be targeted because it could potentially cost them money and contract length if players with previous concussions could be pulled every time they hit their head. They specifically wanted the spotters looking for signs. If there are no signs - don’t pull him and the teams and players are responsible for identifying issues afterwards.

Again hitting is head is not a reason to pull the player. The NFLPA was specific in what the independent team is looking for and just hitting you head would pull a ton of players out every game. They have to show signs - motor impairment, stumbling, looking dazed, going toward 5he wrong sideline or huddle, not looking stable, ataxia, etc. and Tua showed none of that. After that it is the team and the players that have to help and protect each other. That play does not show anything about if the NFL cared or not - it was a routine play in this league and was handled correctly.

Is the NFL supposed to make up symptoms for the players or identify concussions when there are no signs or symptoms present? Why blame the NFL for any of this? Tua was tackled by a normal/routine tackle - got up with no signs of an issue. He meet with teammates and coaches after the play - no one said or did anything to suggest he had a concussion. The next day he presented with symptoms and the team put him in protocol. It sounds to me like the team and the league handled it correctly. Now if Tua had symptoms during the game and did not say something - that is 100% on him. If he did say something and the team ignored it - that is on them. Finally, if his teammates thought there was an issue and they did not do anything - well then shame on them for not being there for their teammate and shame on the Dolphins for their culture. Unfortunately- at this time all sign directly point to everyone handled it correctly and delayed symptoms showed up post game.

Well - if he did it for the Money - why didn’t he stay in GB. Pat was talking about that on his show - how GB offered Adams more money, but what Adams wanted and was looking for (along with the money) was playing with a stable QB that they could build something around. Adams talked about being sick of Rodgers and the yearly retirement and FA talk and decided to leave to go play with his college teammates that just signed a long term contract. They even talked on the show about whether he was going to come back or try to work his way out of LV to go play where Carr lands. So I guess I do not believe Money was the only reason and I think the Raiders screwed him by making this move. I think he legitimately wanted to play with Carr and wanted them to be a team for several years. Adams also worked to get a head of the questions with the reporters and he certainly did not look like what he was saying was PR related - he was legitimately hurt that Carr was benched and sent home - he looked angry and frustrated with the situation.

All of this is 100% true, but it still does not change the fact that Willis not playing was more a result of them resting all of their staters than a true Carr style benching. If this was a game the Titans had to win to stay alive - I do not believe for a second the team starts Dobbs over Willlis in this game. Now what this game did was give them a chance to see what Dobbs could do with a near full week of prep and see if he gives them a better shot of beating Jacksonville than Willis (and it certainly seems like he might). I just do not believe Willis not playing this week is a massive indictment against him - now that changes if and when they decide to play Dobbs over Willis next week in Jacksonville. It also highlights how bad Willis is, but it was not an Apples to Apples comparisons as without Henry the Titans offered little in the run game and therefore had to pass more as an offense in general, but Dobbs was at least competent in doing that last evening.