Rochesterfan

I think the joke was to insinuate that guy is a fan. I want to throw the ball to the fans - no go over there and we will play catch - ala’ you are my fan and we are going to play catch - catch with the fans. It was a quick witted, but dumb joke that the guy never got any of the times. 😂 I believe they would need to go through the approval process - typically takes about 2 years. They went red as part of color rush, but that had to be red on red as part of that. I think if they want Red on White - they would just need to submit that as an alternate choice, but currently that is not the alternate they use.

Totally disagree about Oakland. They had already moved to LA and came back when that failed. Their fan base was not even close to ours. They did have a better economy, but needed a new stadium and Oakland was not giving them that after the regional money spent on SF football and baseball stadiums and Oakland’s new Baseball stadium. The Raiders were supposed to be fine getting the older stadium for themselves, but got offered better accommodations with an owner that desperately needed the money. I don’t think there is any way they move mostly because the area is at a point that a new stadium is needed - the city, county, and state will find the money - just like they did for the Sabres years ago.

Yolo at least got a nice piece of news into the thread. Unfortunately we need to be patient.

The guys on NFL radio were talking about this earlier today. The Saints didn’t forget. It sounds like Thomas went Radio Silence on them. Would not return calls nor show up to camps. They made it sound like there was a disagreement and Thomas didn’t follow up because he didn’t want the surgery. He was going the wait it out route and therefore rather than admit several months ago it was not getting better - he waited as long as possible. He felt the Saints released the news to make him look bad and apparently it worked because the fans are riding him hard for delaying the surgery and now costing the team time in the season. Sounds to me like 2 parties getting ready for a bitter divorce.

Heard the guys on NFL radio talking about this - just crazy. It sounded mostly like a lack of communication and then both the Saints and Thomas trying to CYA. Depending on the version there was talk of Thomas having a surgery and it not working and there being conflicting data, but basically being told to get the surgery redone and he wanted to wait to see if things would work before the second surgery. Then the delay pushed recovery into the season, but Thomas was not providing updates to the team - some reports basically said he stopped taking their calls all together - so there was anger and frustration on both parts. Then the story broke and Thomas felt it was a hatchet job on his reputation and was purposely dropped by the team. It certainly made Saints fan turn on him 100%.

Ok - I totally agree with that assessment. I think with the things they can control - like contracts - they are ok, but there are things like the cap that could change, but the NFL/NFLPA put in a guideline for the GMs for next year and once TV contracts go into effect - that is outside most of this business, but yes there may be unforeseen issues.

I am not sure what this means. We have as much control as possible with a fantastic team and loads of flexibility to open more cap space as needed.

Yeah - I heard. It is hot in the stands, but even hotter on the field and in the tunnel there waiting.

I have heard the Bills trainers talk about this before - to actually be effective in hydrating for a game in Miami - they need to start 5 days before the game at minimum. Trying to do it the night before can actually cause more problems because your body will eliminate most of the excess water and create a potential net loss. They give the guys individual plans - on how much to drink and to spread it out so that they maintain fluid levels as much as possible - even with that - they still get guys going down with cramps and needing IVs. The worse thing is to plan or practice at one temp and then get these super hot/humid days sort of by surprise and they have not got the added hydration plan in place - I think that was what today was - Hot following their Saturday practice in the stadium - where the turf makes it worse.

The more I read and the more details we get - I just love the way this contract was written and how well Beane set it up to help the Bills in the future and still pay Josh. It is brilliant. 👍👍 What I really noticed with the way this is set up is the flexibility built in. They have the initial bonus for 5 years starting now (2021-2025). They have the option bonus next year running (2022-2026). They have the big salary jump for 2023, but the extra years means if they convert the 2023 salary to a signing bonus (ala’ Mahomes and Tre’ White) - they can free up about 10 million in 2023 and spread that out (2023-2027). They can repeat that in 2024 by changing the base salary to bonus and save about 5-7 million for 2024 and spread that out (2024-2028). Then they switch tactics to signing bonuses starting in 2025 and hopefully by that time the salary cap will be balanced out from COVID and more importantly- the new TV money is in place and we see huge jumps in salary cap from 2023 to 2024 and especially in 2025 - allowing this contract to be below new market value as the market skyrockets.

I know that they get this stuff wrong, but they are just there to provide good feelings to fans. They do not typically have good info or intel - unless the Bills want them to have something. What I really noticed with the way this is set up is the flexibility built in. They have the initial bonus for 5 years starting now (2021-2025). They have the option bonus next year running (2022-2026). They have the big salary jump for 2023, but the extra years means if they convert the 2023 salary to a signing bonus (ala’ Mahomes and Tre’ White) - they can free up about 10 million in 2023 and spread that out (2023-2027). They can repeat that in 2024 by changing the base salary to bonus and save about 5-7 million for 2024 and spread that out (2024-2028). Then they switch tactics to signing bonuses starting in 2025 and hopefully by that time the salary cap will be balanced out from COVID and more importantly- the new TV money is in place and we see huge jumps in salary cap from 2023 to 2024 and especially in 2025 - allowing this contract to be below new market value as the market skyrockets.

Honestly - the way they monitor these guys - the players may not have been as bothered as some data they were monitoring gave a warning and the trainers had them sit out. The week prior to the Miami game - I remember the staff talking about extra hydration all week to get them hydrated. It was a week of getting them ready for the temps and the humidity and then still having to give a few guys IVs to replenish the fluids. During training camp - they are hydrating, but losing fluids everyday - so they never build up the excess. My guess is that is what you were seeing today. Hot and humid - taking breaks and getting off the field for protection. Hope everyone is alright! Contrast this back to High School ball with 2 or 3 a days in this heat and few water breaks - I can’t believe more of us didn’t collapse.

Yep - my future wife and I had been gifted tickets from a pastor that was friends with my mother in law. She was a season ticket holder with seats near the 50 yard line on the visitors side a few rows up on the upper deck. This was the first game we went to together - she was going to UB and I was up visiting. What a crazy day and a crazy scene. I had attend several games, but that was her first live game and it hooked her. We got season tickets for the 2 years we were both in Buffalo all because of this game.

I totally agree it would rock for those Bills weekends - even being generous with playoffs and we hit 11 or 12 weekends - it is great - I just don’t think it would be sustainable M-Thursday and the other 40 weekends a year. Any kind of sports gambling and etc would also be available (and already is available now with the downtown casino) wherever the stadium was built. I have no issue with this thinking - just Niagara Falls NY is not what it used to be, but it would be better than OP for helping out.

I think this is really interesting. If it was me - I don’t want them to play much at all. Week 1 - starters 0 snaps - give a huge amount of rotation between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th teamers - mixing guys around to see if you can get full comparisons. Like letting AW get some early snaps at RB along with Matt and Devin. And have Matt and/or Devin run some later in a series against the same competition as AW. Week 2 - 1-2 series just a warm-up to get them ready for the feeling on the road and with a crowd. Week 3 - A couple of series - maybe the full first quarter. I would also look to take starters out mid drive to simulate an injury and getting someone ready and in place on short notice. Maybe start with replacing JA and Diggs after a first down and go from there. I wonder if McD will want to have them perform a 2 minute drill and have them come out after halftime to practice those scenarios? I hope not, but he is so detail oriented that I know ideally with no injuries he would like to cover those scenarios.

I agree there is no way they are moving, but that doesn’t mean they are making the best choices of what to do for themselves and the area. It sounds to me like they are offering the cheapest deal and therefore are asking for the most public support. My guess is their “studies” and “questionnaires” have shown then the current fan base doesn’t want PSLs and wants the stadium in OP and is willing to spend a little more, but not like NE or NYC. Therefore if the Pegula’s understand the market - and maintain as current some minimal PSLs, and hike seat prices some - even doubling them - how do they pay off the investment on the stadium. The analysis says if the average ticket price in the new stadium was $50 higher per seat and it was at a 65,000 capacity - it would take over 41 years to pay off the initial 1 billion cost. During that 41 years - if you have some games with down years and/or you need to remodel/renovate - then you fall further behind. The final breakdown will be a compromise of county, state, and federal public funds - along with a small private contribution from the Pegula’s. Their big compromise will be keeping it in OP - helping to keep costs down, but preventing them from changing the clientele and cost point at the game. It moves it away from their investments and limits to some degree the corporate sponsorship. They are not moving the team, but they are also not getting what would be best for the future - a downtown multi-use venue that could support the area and drive change - like better metro trains from the outlying suburbs to central hubs downtown. Like additional hotels and restaurants that could be used for hockey, baseball, and other events. A stadium will never “pay” for itself, but it can help provide needed infrastructure and businesses that when combined with other venues in the area can help grow snd support each other.

Nope a hotel attached and restaurants do very little for 350 days a year. At least downtown those hotels and restaurants can cater to the working people that are there everyday - plus you hit hockey, baseball, festivals, just a ton of potential dates, but in OP - there is nothing to feed it. You would need to build a stadium, a fan experience, a hall of fame with gift shop, hotel, restaurants, an office complex to help support the restaurants during the off season, some shopping and movie spots to bring customers to the area. Basically you are building the galleria mall around the stadium and hoping it can bring enough people that it doesn’t collapse on itself with the cost. You are also doing this at a time that destination shopping and restaurants are starting to go under as people order items from Amazon, Grub Hub, Door Dash, etc. those exact type of things are going under all over the country.

Mike from SPOTRAC was on WGR at one point and mentioned this. The projection is 13 million with the current signing. Mike suggested Edmunds needed to be signed next because he thought Darius was going to break 20 million (this was prior to that signing being announced) and it would reset the off ball LB market higher with Edmunds closer to 15-17 million AAV.

The SPOTRAC guy I heard the earlier this summer basically stated the Warner deal has a 2024 out with additional voidable years - setting his true base salary at around 15.1 million. That was the top contract and most will agree that Edmunds was not quite as good as Warner - therefore the SPOTRAC team slotted Edmunds at around 13 million. Mike from SPOTRAC then stated that Beane has typically beat their projects by about 1 - 1.5 million with re-signs - so the expected was 12-13 million AAV. Whether he was worth it or not - is a totally different debate - that was the SPOTRAC projection. Now with Darius signing at close to 20 million AAV - just like when any new QB signs or when Tre’ got paid at CB - it resets the negotiation points. Edmunds is not as good as Darius - so his agents will be trying to slot him someplace under Darius - the new salary setter. The belief is the Edmunds team will use Warner as their new floor rather than the ceiling and try to slot in right around Warner’s numbers now that their is a higher point. It is exactly like what happened in Dallas with Dak. They had a shot at a 30+ million AAV several years ago and couldn’t get it done. The next year it went to over 35 million AAV and then finally they got the deal done at 40 million AAV. Dallas waited 2 years at come to an agreement and it cost them about 10 million in AAV and cost them the added bonus of the last year of his rookie deal to spread a hit over - making his a truly 40 million AAV - where as even with Josh signing for more his 2 additional years (5th year option and last year of rookie deal) push his true AAV down to 36 + million. Dak wasn’t the 2nd best QB - just like Edmunds isn’t the second best off ball LB, but the timing makes or breaks these guys and it made Dak a ton of money and my feeling is it knocked Edmunds out of the Bills future plans.

I will say 2 things: 1) NBA comparison is crazy because they don’t have a true cap. You can basically spend whatever you want and just pay more into the pool. So where does 50 million come from - owners willing to overspend to make their team relevant. A team like Brooklyn with Durant is not staying under the CAP - they are basically willing to go way beyond the cap for a few years to try and win. 2.) We know in the NFL based upon the agreement that the Cap next year is only going to rise a few million and that is assuming all games go off and all fans are back. I am not convinced that will be the case come the fall. Then the 2023 CAP will be based upon the 2022 money - meaning the 2023 CAP is not skyrocketing - it will be 2024 when the CAP see the biggest jump. They can slot him in, but it just became harder and much less likely. The numbers for off ball LBs were going up - that was clear and everyone knew Darius was going to set a new standard - the fear was how high does it push the lesser players and that contract probably pushes guys like Edmunds - not Elite, but top 5-10 with multiple ProBowls - up 5 - 6 million on AAV over the next couple of seasons. For me - If it could of been done first - I would have done it at 12-13 and it would seem a bargain. Now I am waiting - not to see how he plays, but you need to get other players to slot into 13-14 AAV to get him back down to that range. Isn’t 4 yr 80 million actually higher that 5 yr 99.95 million. I think you need to adjust you take slightly. I was thinking before this deal 4 year 48 - 50 million would have been my target. Sorry saw @NoSaint beat me to it.

Nope - and this was why in the Who’s next thread - I said he needed to be next - before this contract came out. Mike from SPOTRAC mentioned that before Darius signs - you have a shot at Edmunds at 12-13 million AAV, but if Darius gets 20+ million as he thought - Edmunds immediately jumps to 17-18 million AAV and probably out of the prices range they can slot in.

I totally agree and think you can take it a step further. He has not just improved season over season - if you break down the seasons into two 8 game stretches - he has improved each stretch within a season. Year 1 before the injury - he made some plays, but was wildly inconsistent - which is exactly what you expect for a super raw rookie on a crap team. Year 1 after the injury - suddenly he comes back and looks different - things slowed down for him - he was still inconsistent, but now he was more calculated in his approach and where he was going. He improved because he suddenly started to understand and translate film and concepts into game play. Year 2 early season - he worked hard in the off season and came back and was better than down the stretch year 1 - more consistent plays - hitting guys all over the field - making throws before breaks - anticipation throws. The talent was much better and he had grown into a more polished passer. Year 2 late season - you saw what 2020 became the last 8 games of 2019 - he started having answers. He was making reads quickly and making good decisions and he was letting the talent make plays. He still got amped at times, but he started making touch throws, and weird arm angle throws - just anything he needed to keep moving and his accuracy was climbing as he adjusted. Year 3 early - you could see the change starting game 1 with a 300 yard performance and complete control and it rolled week after week. There were still a few mistakes with the ball - like the Rams game, but his control was better. Year 3 late - you saw a guy in complete control - he had guys open and knew what read and where to go. After Arizona - he literally put this team up and made the offense unstoppable. He was - to me - the best QB in the NFL in the second half of the season. Now you see him in practice - nothing went away and he has added more off angle throws to his arsenal - there is no reason to think he will regress - he hasn’t yet and although I can’t expect significant improvement on his numbers - I think he will continue to become a better QB this season.

No problem - after your next response to me - that made sense. I know we don’t agree much, but I do respect what you bring to the board. That was why the response made no sense to me.

Not a negative - I am trying to understand. This is a thread about Allen and his contract and was it worth it. Your statement was if he played the way he played in the AFCCG then the contact is a debacle. No where do you mention Edmunds - so are you talking Edmunds or are you talking about Allen? The guy asks you about the AFCCG and there you dance around and say something about Edmunds- so my question is are you talking about an unknown Edmunds contract or are you talking about the Allen contract being a debacle? I am guessing based upon your response you are talking about an Edmunds contract - which is not what was being talked about here and since your original post does not mention a name - we would all assume you are saying the Allen signing will be a debacle if he plays the way he did in the AFCCG. You are literally quoting a guy that quoted you talking about Josh’s contract. He said it would be a bargain and you literally said “it would be a bargain if he improves”. Then you say if he plays the way he did in the AFCCG it would be a debacle - all relating to Josh’s contract. I think you might have just gotten confused which thread you were in.

I agree - no idea how bad it is. Will be an interesting watch and will be interesting to see the impact on DL battle this has. Does this allow Zimmer and Phillips to make the roster and Butler ends up on IR or something.