Rochesterfan

Yeah and at the end of 2015 - Roman and TT were supposedly clicking as the NYJ game and that passing attack was going to be what we saw in 2017 until TT regressed and Roman was fired. Clay was getting passes deep and down the middle of the field, but it never translated to anything. I think play calling is huge, but the player has to be able to handle that and until TT shows he can do it consistently- I am not ready to believe the passing attack will improve significantly. I would be less surprised to see an improvement in the defense and the offense regressing toward middle of the pact - than seeing the offense actually improve. But that is just my opinion on the issue.

1985/86 season versus the Bears - they were so cocky and arrogant- I was hoping somehow for an upset. For the recent run - not really - I liked Drew Bledsoe as QB, but once Brady took over - I have hoped for utter failure ever since.

Two things: 1). OJ was found Innocent and yet lost the civil case - they are very different and guilty or innocent does not necessarily mean anything in the civil case. 2). I think the lawsuit is about money the Pats owe to Hernandez as much as anything else and this lawsuit gives them grounds to collect money before it gets to the Hernandez estate. I have no issues with this suit, but it depends upon the final interpretation. If OJ had still been under contract - they probably would have to prevent the money going someplace they can not access. Even as it was OJ was found Not Guilty, but still lost the civil suit and was forced to pay a lot of money.

It is a nice article to show what the plan is - we will need to see if it fits TT or not. I think limiting his reads significantly will make some things easier, but I do not think TT excels at short to mid range passing to moving targets and I do not think TT excels at throwing quick timing routes on time and in stride. I will hold my judgement on whether the passing attack makes any strides forward until he proves it or doesn't. There is really nothing in the article that makes me think things will get better and there are a lot of patterns - guys coming across the middle of the field - that we have seen the last 2 years and TT has for the most part refused to pull the trigger. I expect a lot of running out of TT - probably even more than last year as they roll him out and actually a less productive passing attack. I think he will be exactly what we have seen a couple of above average games, a couple of average games, and a few stinkers and if the last 2 years are any indication - the average and bad will come early and when we sit on the brink or are eliminated - he will have his above average games and people will be - look he is getting better - like the Jets game 2 years ago and the Miami game at the end of last season. Those 2 games defined the off season expectations of a lot of fans that then got a dose of reality once the next season started.

Correct - so they would need to make other modifications to the agreement not just up the percentage. I don't see that happening. Even with the change you get the same issue - the salaries for the top tier would go higher, but most would not be affected. If the players union actually represented all the players and not just the stars - they could correct that and make things more balanced so everyone on the players side shared in the wealth, but it does not. The majority of the players and their short careers will be the reason the players fold again in the next CBA. It will go into the season, but with only a 3 year life span for most players - the majority need the paychecks.

I understand what you are saying - I think your numbers are a bit off though. If the current cap is set let's say 48% and is at 167 another 3% is only raising the cap maybe 9-10 million. It is not going from 167 to 212 million per team. That would mean each 1% increase would be around 15 million in salary cap space - so 48 % would be close to a salary cap of 720 million rather than 167 million. Remember the Salary Cap is not based on all revenue only some of it. What the change from 48 to 51 would do in the NFL is exactly what it did in the NBA. 1 or 2 players on each team get the extra money - most likely the QB and DE. Steph Curry and Kevin Durant see huge salary bumps compared to other players on the team.

The Money does go someplace - roughly just under 50% goes to the players for salary. Just over 50% to the owners to cover all of the administrative staff, coaching staff, food, training equipment, upgrades, practice facilities, uniforms, medications, and everything else the players need to be ready. I will not whine for the owners because they make a lot of money as an individual person, but after they cover all of the business costs and salary. The breakdown seems about right as every league with a cap puts the annual average players salary at close to 50% of the leagues revenue. The difference is guaranteed money and that is based on the sport. We do not need to use Fat Albert for the point - go around the league - if the NFL paid guaranteed money and gave a WR a 5 year contract and that guy sucks or is hurt - he would get paid just like Bonilla in you example - that is great for that player, but then every other player will get less because money is tied up in guys that are not playing or producing. The NFL is a production league - you produce - you get paid. Your production drops - you get cut and can lose your big pay day. When that happens - what happens to that money. It is almost immediately spent on other players on the team. TT takes a pay cut and the Bills sign additional players with that money. I have no issues with having more guarantees for the players, but it will come with something they will not like lower salaries because more money will be tied up in non producing players. I know - it is not possible, but even the NBA is seeing issues with teams resting players - do we will see things turn out shortly.

I think you are proving his point not your own. He was given a 100 million contract for what he did in Tennessee when he came to the Redskins, but as soon as he did not live up to that level of play - they were able to get out of the contract and give that money to people that deserved it. Hockey, Baseball, and Basketball- all have it wrong, but can survive because of the games and the players. How many albatross contracts do you hear about in those leagues . Guys that got paid for 1 years work as they hit FA and then fell back. Guys like Koby in LA that basically had a contract destroy the team when he could no longer play to that level. Baseball is the worse - they give out massive contracts to guys mid 30's and then try to figure out how to get rid of them when after 1 or 2 years they start to decline. Football allows teams to get out of contracts and redistribute that money to guys that are more worthy right now. It stinks for the players that want the big payday without the work, but a guy like Brady, JJ Watt, or Von Miller seem to keep getting paid through injuries and age. I think the system works - you just have to keep putting in the effort.

Exactly - I guarantee if Sammy Watkins and the NFL players are willing to play 84 regular season games (or 162 with baseball) and then 30 playoff games - his annual salary would dwarf Steph Currys, but they are balking at adding 17 or 18 - so I have no sympathy.

Re-read what he said. He felt the TOP had some effect on the defense. How good was Miami's defense with the TOP? Overall the Bills were 7-8 going into the last game as a team. The offense, the defense, the special teams, and coaching all shoulder the blame. Each unit throughout the year had games they could of won for the team and games they lost for the team. At the end of the year all three units were part of the failure - the only part that was pretty consistent was the running game. The passing attack, the defense, and the kicking game all needed to be better to win. Was TT the sole reason they did not make the playoffs- of course not, but he is also not Scott free in the reason. He shoulders his own part of the action by leading the 30th rated passing attack and averaging only 1 TD throw a game. The coaches shoulder a lot of the burden for throwing out an ill prepared team the lacked discipline game in and game out. The defense shoulder a fair amount for not getting stops and turnovers when needed. The special teams had terrible play from both kicking units and missed kicks at critical times throughout the year.

I would only agree to this if as a team they are actually ready to play in game one. Rex didn't play the guys last year and game #1 instead of teams not knowing what was going on - they were grossly unprepared to play in game 1. I am guessing McDermott plays the guys more early to build the teamwork and make sure they are ready. He does not seem like an underprepared type of coach.

I think TT is very hard to judge across the board because he is what each person sees in his mind. Unlike someone like Brady or Rodgers or even Big Ben, that you can rank because of their sheer numbers and what they have accomplished - TT is not that way. His numbers are all over the board and the things he has done are all over the place - so therefore he creates a lot of controversy and divided opinions. He doesn't throw ints, but his passing totals are so much lower than everyone else and what he was asked to do was not the same caliber as a true elite QB. It is really all about what you see. Where I see him and where some others see him may be close or may be far apart, but they are only our own opinions. He has time to change all of our opinions and become a Big Ben or even a Flacco or he can become the next Fitzpatrick and just be a 3rd tier starter filling in while we wait for the next guy. Until either of those days come everything else is just opinion.

He was added, but after John had made the quote. You may be right - he was pretty shot his last year and yet won the Super Bowl and beat Brady in the playoffs. Yes he had the best defense, but he still made plays in the playoffs to help them win and I think with a great running attack - he could play action more and make some plays or maybe he would crap the bed. Maybe - I move him to the hesitate a bit group, but I still think I would start him over TT at this point if I could get either one.

Yes to all those questions - if I could get Palmer or Romo or Manning to come here I would start them all over TT. I understand they left or have almost left the game and I still think they are better QBs than 1/2 the league - not for a lot longer, but a for the coming year - I would take them. I think both Prescott and Winston are significantly better NFL QBs than TT - they have fewer years in the league and I would much rather have either one as my QB. Guys like Dalton and Newton are guys not much better than TT, but both have lead their team to the playoffs multiple times - so yes - I would take both of those guys over TT straight up. Those are my opinions - they may not match yours, but my guess is many are close - you may slide some guys up or down, but probably have TT around the middle rather than top 10 like the guy I responded to.

While I agree that there were very few options for the Bills that would have been better than TT this offseason - there are many QB's I would rather see under center for the Bills than TT if I had my choices. For me without a doubt or a second of hesitation I would take: Brees Ryan Brady Rodgers Luck Wilson Roethlisberger Carr Both Manning Brothers Newton Rivers Stafford Guys I would take, but with slight hesitation: Palmer Cousins Flacco Dalton Winston Prescott Mariota Romo Guys on par - I could go either way: Wentz Tannehill Bradford Cutler Garoppolo Lynch Smith Moore Guys I would not even look at - having TT as my QB: McCown Fitzpatrick RGIII Goff Kapernick Siemian Hoyer Kessler Barkley Osweiler Bortles I have TT in a third tier with a group of other QBs right around where most of his rankings come out around 20th in the league. He is starter caliber, but he is not what I view as a long term answer. I hated the idea of Mahomes in the draft, but that was probably the one chance for a potential upgrade this offseason was in the draft. Once that passed by TT is really the only option we have and I will root for him every Sunday he starts just as I have the last 2 years as he has been the best option, but I just do not expect much out of him. He will make some plays and limit mistakes and puts us in the middle of the NFL pack one of 12-15 teams that with the right breaks makes the playoffs and the wrong breaks ends up 6-10.

I agree with this - I also think that if TT performed better in several late game drives and looked better in the fast paced 2 minute offense and we won a few games because of last drive throws the narrative would change also. His best games - Miami and Seattle he did just that - he moved them down the field with chances to win. Seattle he did not make a play at the end - I don't think that was all on him - the Refs gave him no help. Miami he made enough plays and special teams missed the kick. The problem is there were other games that he had that chances against Baltimore, NYJs, Miami, Pittsburgh, heck even Oakland to lead drives to change the game. Yes the defense was an issue, but other playoff teams overcame that. A tighter and better defense helps, but there were still issues that TT needs to improve significantly to change that narrative.

Happy - we will have to disagree about that. If you look at absolute numbers of course being under pressure makes a DVOA go way down. The DVOA is affected by negative plays and it is very hard to take a sack when you are not under pressure. So the biggest negative play with no pressure is an Int and these are professionals the number of Ints should go up with pressure. The number of positive plays should also go down under pressure, but for TT they did not. His TD % per attempt goes up when he is under pressure. He threw more TDs under pressure in fewer attempts than when not under pressure. In addition - as we already knew his athletic nature allowed him to avoid sacks and escape the pocket and scramble for first downs - one of his major positives as a QB. Therefore we know he avoided a number of sacks and his unique athletic ability allowed him to convert first downs that his QB ability would not have converted. If Tyrod is left alone in the pocket and allowed to scan the field his DVOA is higher only because you eliminate the sack. His overall play as how he compares to other QBs in that situation drops from nearly the best to middle of the pack. It is why teams like Baltimore and the Jets talk about keeping him in the pocket and making him beat you as a QB. They are not afraid of how he plays as a QB throwing the ball from the pocket because in those situations he is average and much less likely to make a big play - either a long scramble or a TD pass than he is when you get pressure and he escapes the pocket and throws on the run or takes off with your DBs in man coverage. My main point being that these numbers presented make sense in the context of what we already knew about TT. They do not make me think the offense was better - they confirm what we knew. We knew that under pressure TT does a nice job of escaping pressure and making a positive play - that is one of his best attributes. What we need to see going forward is can he translate that playmaking ability to times he is not under pressure. Can he get his DVOA without pressure above the top 10 while still keeping his under pressure DVOA higher. Over 60% of the time there is not pressure on the QB and getting that DVOA up into the top 10 makes you a better QB and those are the areas he is average and why we as a fan base are split. The takeaway that I have and why I am ready to move on is that if we had to face a TT lead team and he was not on the Bills - that is a game I am thinking I can win. It is the same reason fan bases in places like Miami are split- you can do worse that either of those guys, but neither are the answer. They are the placeholders until you find the answer and maybe they get hot and you make a playoff run, but long term they are not the answer you need to win consistently in this league.

I think it could, but watching more "highlights" and game action - I think similar to Brees he could see enough, but there were times he chose not to throw, but when there was pressure and he reacted - he hit Clay a couple of times between the hashes and down the field late. We will see more this year in a different scheme.

Well thought out and well reasoned- I think I agree for the most part. You read it the same way I did - nothing was unexpected because these articles play into what was already his known strength. It also made me wonder about the rest of his game as he was so much better under pressure and he was under pressure % wise more than any QBs - so his overall QBing the rest of the time was even worse than the average numbers project. We will see how he does in a new offense with a new staff, but he has to get better in the normal aspects of the game and maybe some of that is designed rolls with out a lot of thought - just get rid of the ball. Time and space is his enemy - he needs to be instinctive and just make plays and that is part of the reason his timing was off, he struggled with throws to the middle of the field, and throwing timing routes to moving receivers. I have stated I do not think a lot of that was coaching - I think a lot of that was TT overthinking.

God - I try to stay out, but it just keeps coming back and I am sure like all of the other TT threads - we will have the exact same groups on both sides calling each other names and complaining about being insulted - such fun, but I digress. Thanks Happy - I like the thought, but I am not sure what it really tells us. First - the best part of TT's game is his mobility - so none of the stats "surprise" me. What it tells me is that under pressure - where he can't think and plays on instinct - he plays better. When he has time and an open field to read and absorb - he wants to make the perfect play and therefore is much less effective. What to me is truly scary is his TDs - well over half of his TD throws by this were under pressure - yet he was under pressure about 1/3 of the time. He needs to get much, much better in the flow of a game. Overall the combination of articles tell me 2 things - 1 Tyrod's legs are a huge part of his game and really helps with his play under pressure to escape and both run and throw. 2 - if I am a team playing TT - I look to what Baltimore did and I want to force him to be a QB and force him to read the field and make decisions- I think that is where TT struggles and that is why teams talk about making him be a QB. He is an improviser and his legs are a major part of his game, but the 2/3 of a time that teams did not pressure him and force him to make a play - his play tailed off. We will see what happens next - I will let you get back to insulting each other now.

Nope - none as of right now. I would not put Fred up there - not a starter long enough and was not quite good enough to deserve it. Played with a ton of heart, but he was not an all time great in a Bills uniform. Brian was a top level player at his position for several years and was here long enough to merit consideration, but I do not want to see a punter be placed on the Wall of Fame for an above average career. If he was an all time NFL great then maybe, but not because he was the best from a long run of below average talent. Kyle Williams would also merit consideration as a multi-time Pro-Bowl player and I would not hate seeing him placed on the Wall, but he is still active - let's see if he can help lead the team over the hump. If not - then I would prefer to see fewer guys on the Wall and keep it with the truly All Time Greats. I think you could go back to the 60's - 90's and find guys just as worthy or more so than anyone on this team since around 2000.

Agreed and he fixates on things not related to the posts - in this case Whaley for some awful reason. Someone disagrees and it is suddenly something about either EJ or Whaley - having nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

I think your first paragraph is spot on, but I do not think that leads to paragraph 2. I think based on what we saw in Denver with Dennison - you are looking at flooding zones and really having TT make one or two simply reads. I do not think they will be asking him to read across the field - as much as roll and dump short, medium, or long depending on safety/LB coverage.

I have not been here long and I agree - he really seems to have some good opinions and doesn't automatically go to extremes. I really understand what he and NoSaint are saying - the decision on how to fill those roles should be made by the GM ultimately. My feeling is that McD and Beane have had this discussion during their many runs over the years (not in regards to Buffalo - just in general) and have talked about how they want to fill a FO. I also suspect that McD talked with Beane specifically about Buffalo after McD was interviewed/hired and building a ground up structure from scratch was probably appealing. I in no way believe the task was easy or that some of the guys the Bills had in place were not good, but I think that was one of the things the Pegulas liked about McD - I think he already had a plan and a list of names for many top positions and therefore although the firing came before Beane was officially hired - I believe he had some influence on McD and that was all part of the decision.

The risk is the time needed to make that decision. We have no idea what was asked of the scouts prior to their dismissal or what McDermott looked at prior to this, but my feeling is he already had an idea of what he wanted and the vision and not one of those guys fit the future vision. There was no upside to keeping old staff - the positions can be difficult to fill, but teams do this all the time. Ideally in some business you interview the remaining staff and choose the best, but I think they had targets they wanted and wanted to move fast - people McD discussed weeks and months before this happened to bring his vision to Terry. Do you risk losing a really good guy - yes, but you get the opportunity to have people that you want and are loyal to you only.