Rochesterfan

I think Dorsey is given more range than previous guys - in the end Haslam as owner just needs to stay out of the way and let things happen. I just am not sure Haslam can do that - he already made the decision Hue would be back before anyone else could talk him out of that and if he keeps doing that - I can see Dorsey getting frustrated and looking for an out.

I am not sure the FO believes in Hue - I think if they had their choice Nagy is the HC and the entire staff is gone. Hue is still there because the owner opened his big mouth and said he would be back - neutering the FO from going out and getting their coach. Depending on where their bye falls - I think they make a switch mid year to get their draft pick some time and I think Hue is fired by seasons end. I think what you are seeing is the Browns trying to get as much salary on expiring contracts - so they meet the thresholds set by the NFL/NFLPA and then trying to play this year out hoping to get their Coaching staff next year and get some development out of their “franchise” QB. We will see how it all plays out, but this is a bad match-up division for TT with teams that are familiar and have beaten and held him down over his 3 years. I think they end up better, but overall I do not think TT is a fit - I think he is there mainly because of his contract and the length.

Not a chance - 200 receptions by Landry would require nearly 350 passes from TT just to that 1 player. Landry will be fuming at his 60 catches for 250 yards as the top WR - he is not soft spoken like the guys here - he wants his targets. Depending on how long they start him - I think with Hue on his way out and an OC that is notorious for getting into it with his QB if he is not doing what the OC wants - it is going to be a long and painful year in Cleveland for TT. I think by the end of the year both TT and Landry are gone and the Browns fans are thinking about the draft capital they spent on guys that gave them less than 1 year.

Yes, but those those teams changed Head Coaches to get a new vibe in the room. This is the same HC to take them to 1-31 and has been owned by the division.

I don’t think it matters in the moment, but after this coming season they will look back and be like what did we actually get for that draft capital we had. The Sabres went through something similar- we have tons of picks, prospects, and cap space and then all of a sudden you realize you wasted picks and space to get little return. I believe they have way overspent on players to make a push toward the middle of the pack and with many of these players on expiring contracts they will not recoup what they spent. If they hit on the QB - they won’t really know next year if TT plays and if they end up at 6 wins and change coaches do they set back the top picks from this year with a new system? We will see - they will be interesting to watch - especially as both Baltimore and Cincinnati have done a number on TT over his 3 years in Buffalo keeping his passing stats down and forcing him to play from the pocket.

I think the Browns are giving up a lot of assets for players that won’t be around after this year. I think they they will be better this year than last, but to give up a third for TT and pick up the option - cost them a lot and even if they win some games - he is likely there the one year. Landry is the same way - huge contract and 2 picks for a guy on an expiring contract makes no sense. I think by this time next year the Browns will be looking at these guys and hoping for Comp picks to replace them. I also think after winning 6 or 7 games they are going to be working to figure out the HC situation and that could impact the draft picks from this year if they hire poorly again.

He is still property of the Bills until Wednesday and the agents are not supposed to be getting offers until the legal period opens. My guess is if he signs in TB for these parameters - TB will lose a draft pick over this.

Tampering is allowed during the legal period. They are not supposed to be talking contracts at this point. It it will be interesting to see what the league does. The idea was the legal period opens and you can start talking numbers.

I don’t know - these moves reek of the Sabres trying to rebuild - they had so much cap room and assets that they gave away to much for not enough return. Landry, TT are really one year deals - gave up 3rd and multiple picks for Landry. I think they will will look back in 2 years and ask why did we waste so many picks for guys no longer on the team. I think they are getting eaten alive in these trades. Both the Bills and Dolphins were desperate to get rid of the players and the Browns gave up good assets for them. At least last year they took on the osweiler contract and got the picks - We will see, but this to me has been a bad/bad day from the Browns long term.

We will need to see - with all of the receivers they have - it looks like they would have been better with a quick release passer getting the ball out, but now they have the longest release in the league. Not sure what they will run, but they will most likely not turn it over as much.

The post June 1st savings do not kick in until June 1st though - so essentially you cut him, but his entire Cap hit is on you roster until June first - meaning they save nothing and still need to get under the cap. I believe Landry also signed his tender meaning that they can no longer rescind that to get cap relief. They either need to trade him and they now have lost all leverage or sign a long term extension, but even that hurts the cap this year. They may want to be in on Cousins, but there is almost no way without cutting a ton of other players and then they are not going to be as good so why would Cousins choose them. They are in a no win situation at the moment. Yep - this is exactly what I thought - no relief with a June 1st designation and Landry signing really hurt their flexibility. There is probably one team that could help them out if they really wanted to go after Cousins or to get under the cap and that is Cleveland. Similar to the Osweiler deal last year - they could work out a deal to take these big contracts off the Dolphins hands and get compensation rather than give up something, but the new GM is an NFL guy and not a money baller like the previous 2 years. I do not see any true NFL GMs using this approach, but it was how the Browns utilized a different approach under Sashi last year.

What did they really learn though (and this is the issue)? The player answered however he answered - he then gets asked by the media about dumb questions and this gets pointed out. The question will come out and the player by the sounds of it gave a measured response and laughed it off. Risk versus Reward - you asked a question that gets you very limited info, makes your team look bad, risks potential FA and UDFA from choosing your team, and after multiple times being told that you can’t do this risk penalties to the team. The line of questioning is is dumb and unnecessary - you want to get a rise - there are lots of football related ways to see if you can get a rise, if you are worried about fan or social media - they all have access- most of these guys have been on social media since high school and the NFL fans are not any worse than college fans - especially like with SEC rivalries or ACC.

The only disagreement with this is that in the NFL - winning trumps all. A guy like Belichick is more rigid and stern than Marrone could ever be, but he wins - so it works. If Marrone keeps getting the Jags to the playoffs - it will not matter what his ego is like - the players will play. Belichick has sat players that were late late during a blizzard even when they called to say they were coming. When the area got blanketed this winter - there were articles about guys “opting” to stay at the hotel on site just to make sure they were on time. There was also the fact that he fined and punished players that celebrated scores - I mean how strict and controlling do you want, but he gets away with it. Either style will work - the issue is consistency and preparation. The players will adapt if you are consistent in your style and you prepare them well and you bring about wins. The biggest issue with Rex was a complete lack of preparation- it showed and the players responded negatively.

Agree - this year was huge.

For me you have 1986: 4 Hits, 2 guys drafted in 3rd and 5th rounds that played 60 and 40 games respectively and then a bunch of 7th round or later that were not expected to play. If you only look at the 7 rounds I would say 4 hits, 2 so so players and a miss in the 7th - a bit different than your 7%. 1987: Every pick through the 7th round played a minimum of 35 games and 3 years in the NFL - plus he hit on 2 guys in the 9th and 11 th round that were successful. This was an amazing draft with good players drafted throughout - there were probowl players, depth players, and a fixture or two on the Super Bowl teams. There were only 2 guys drafted that made no real contribution and they were both after the 7th round. 1988: This is probably the worst draft, but they were all late round picks beacuse of the Bennett trade that eliminated many picks. Bennett makes the first round pick a huge success- even though you do not consider him here. Thomas was a great pick. The rest were nothing through 7 rounds, but then he hits on 3 guys after the 7th round and that is amazing. 3 guys that played above 95 games drawn in the 8th round or later tells you what you need to know - they had an eye for small school talent that was unmatched. To Continue: 1989: Another rough draft due to where the selections are - starting late 3rd round as you highest pick. To get any successful picks would be a win and he hits on 2 players that exceeded 100 games - that is pretty good. Beebe not only was good player here - he went on to play in additional Superbowls outside of Buffalo. He also has 2 plays that defined the Bills of that era - so by all accounts he was successful. There were also 2 7th rounders that both played 2 plus seasons and over 35 games - again those are not misses - that is pretty good for that draft position. 1990: 4 draft picks over 100 games played and 3 exceeded 150 games in the NFL. Pretty good once again. Even the first rd with Williams although not a success - was not a miss - he played over 6 seasons and 70 games and although it may not be with the success you want from a first rounder it is far from a bust. The real “misses” were 6th and 7th rounders - again these are not really misses as they are mostly fliers where you are hoping to get anything. 1991: He again hits 3 guys in the draft that played over 100 games in the NFL - not bad. His mid round picks 3rd - 6th were not great, but the Bills were pretty stacked at this point being in the middle of a Super Bowl run. I am not surprised some mid level guys did not stick. Overall - I will not give a percentage because it is objective, but in those 6 drafts he hit on 18 players that played over 100 NFL games in their career and several more that exceeded 60 games and 5 years in the league. He also found a number of diamonds in the rough with picks after the 7th round becoming successful. Finally looking at high picks - he pretty much hit on every first round pick except Williams and Williams did not flame out. 4 successful picks and one so-so pick and no busts to me is pretty good. His second round rate is similar with 4 successful picks and his worst being Roland Mitchell with 89 NFL games on his ledger - I could go successful or so-so, but not one miss in that group either - so you are looking at 8 or 9 major hits out of 10 picks in the first 2 rounds, plus he traded some 1st round picks to get Bennett in here - another Coup for Polian. I think his record and his league awards speak for themselves on how he was viewed as a GM and FO leader.

Then you are doing this wrong - they were drafted as depth/ST players and both exceeded 100 games in the NFL. Not only were both hits - they were wildly successful hits for their draft position. Throughout this process your hits and misses are inconsistent and the vast majority of the players are neither. A 5th round pick that plays 3 years as a back-up with no major plays to his credit is not a hit, but is also not a miss. He did what you would expect at that spot. I appreciate your effort - I just think your numbers for all 3 make no sense - you tried way to hard to make people misses - like Whitner or Pike that had significant careers including special teams and on other teams. Regimes change and guys that are drafted for one coach that is moved out, but the player is still successful after moving on - does not mean that the GM missed on the pick - the GM choose a successful guy - the team changed and that player continued success elsewhere. This is especially true of a guy like Polian that had more rounds and less ability to scout players. His drafting was well above his peers during that time based upon what and where he would draft.

Multiple ways - 1st having a guy that actually plays QB - so the film and practice show how to read and progress - how to take a proper drop. All of those things matters. The coaches teach, but having a guy that does it correctly makes the teaching easier and better. 2nd - TT has been benched each year because of poor play and injuries. Last year it became a race issue with him questioning how a non African American would be treated. This has the potential of splitting the locker room when it becomes time to move on again. You can not risk fracturing the team to continue to play a bridge QB. At some point you need to move on and be able to get some game experience for your rookie and if it is replacing a fresh face then it is easier. I don’t think competition is the issue - it is finding the right fit and the right player. TT does a lot of good things, but he is not a bridge or back-up level QB. The biggest complaint every year preseason has been: well he needs time with the receivers to gel. You do not get that as a back-up - you may need to come in a just start slinging the ball to guys. He also does very little in a standard way - his drops and progressions are not normal and his timing on throws is awful - therefore as a training or film study guy - he provides little for the coaching staff to use a teaching material. I think the band-aid analogy is great - it might hurt a bit short term, but long term it is for the best. Move on - trade him - sign someone else - whatever, but don’t become beholden to the replacement has to be better - the future has to be better - the replacement just needs to get you to the future and help that future grow as much as possible.

Just as a counter point - they also used analytics last year - went for a huge number of 4th downs and were under 50% and lost more games than they won. Analytics may help, but it still depends upon what you do on the field. Last year they did not convert 4th down plays at the same rate as this year. If their 4th down conversions had stayed near 40% this year they would not have won - the difference was not the analytics- it was the play.

I think it goes Minnesota- then Minnesota - followed closely by Minnesota. I do not think NYJ or Cleveland because both of those coaching staffs are ready to be fired with the least bit of struggle. I think Denver falls in that also - although Elway stabilizes the situation. I think if Minnesota decides not to pursue and I can’t see that - the Buffalo is two, Denver is three and the NYJ and Cleveland only because of money, but I think both want to draft QBs and that is stupid if you sign Cousins.

So you have complained throughout and changed your point as WEO has owned you several times and now you say you do not watch the NFL anymore - then how do you know what is going on. There are still good hard hitting defenses - just as in years past. There are good offenses, good teams with running games, teams with good front 7 and teams with good DB play. Has the league changed anger over the years - yes, but not as dramatically as your post wants to make it out. Overall scoring is about the same, but the players are much more athletic all over the field. The fact that scoring has not changed much, but we now have kickers that can make 60+ yard kicks on every team as opposed to a 40 yarder being a crap shoot means defenses are still making plays before offenses can get into scoring range. The addition of the 2 point play also has potential to add to scoring, but overall scoring has not changed. The increase in passing also lengthens the game - so overall the number of plays per game is up, but scoring has remained- which means that overall - defenses today are better than their counterparts from years ago. The rule changes overall have had little effect on the play. What does effect play is the changes the offensive and defensive coaches have made in game planning. Years ago the prolific offenses had deep outside passing games that accounted for lots of yards, but also a higher incompletion rate. The advent of the 49ers West Coast offense with tons of short passes changed the balance as to why QB numbers are up and passing become more prolific. Overall - I loved football in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, and today. Is it different - yes, but if you can not appreciate the greatness of today’s defenses that is on you. If defenses had not evolved and the rules had the impact you stated - then yeah the offense and scoring would be way up, but it is not.

The coaches teach - what do they use to teach? They use practice and game film and game planning sessions and if your #1 QB does not make correct reads and/or requires a unique offense to run or requires an entirely different set-up - that takes away from what you are going to be able to teach him. Everyone complained about the Bills not building an offense around TT, but if he is only a bridge you do not build around the bridge - you choose the scheme you want to run - you draft and acquire players to fit that - and that includes finding the developmental QB you want to grow in that system. If TT was the long term answer then by all means build an offense to fit him. The most important thing a young QB can learn is how to watch film and to understand the progressions and what to look for and the coaches can teach that, but if the game film does not show your starter doing those things - that is a detriment to his growth. Additionally- how awkward is it in the film study to watch TT make plays and the QB coach basically saying you need to key here and throw at this point when TT did something completely different and completed a pass later in the route. You are in a room teaching and ripping apart your stater at the same time. Sal from WGR was talking about this when he was saying why the offensive coaches were so frustrated with TT last year - they needed him to progress and at least attempt to follow the game plan, but when the real bullets fly in the game - he reverts to his old form just winging it, not following the flow of the game. The assumption is not that the QB #1 has to teach QB #2 anything - it is that QB#1 will do enough things correctly that the coaches can actually use the film and the practice time to show the Rookie what to read and why. If your QB #1 is so different and does not follow the basic tenets of the offense - you are now trying to teach without the ability to show things in real situations with your real personnel. It can be done, but it makes it harder and less effective. TT may or may not be back, but if he does come back and the Bills draft a tall in the pocket QB - I think having TT makes the transition harder rather than easier. If you are drafting a pocket passer - I would rather see a McCown type QB as the bridge - even if it is 2 years than see TT as the bridge. If you are drafting a Mayfield or Jackson with a bit more mobility and play making outside the pocket - then by all means keep TT and teach based upon his plays, but that does not seem to be what the GM and Coach say they want out of the position.

I agree 100% - TT would be a terrible bridge QB. To be effective you need to build a specific style and that is not what you want. You also need a bridge QB to help work with the younger QB and in the film room talk about what you are seeing and what you read and TT does not make the reads you want.

So so how do they do this. They have gone through multiple OC and multiple WR groups and TT best year was still near the bottom of the league in passing. Maybe they do not care if TT succeeds because he is not part of the long term vision and it would be nearly impossible to find a replacement that fits in with what TT does well.

I think the Eagles and Foles talk and together decide what they want to do. Obviously the Eagles think very highly of Foles and my guess is if he has a desire to try and start again - they will work out a trade. If Foles says he loves his role and wants to be in Philly for his teammates- they keep him around. It is a business first and foremost, but I think there are some coaches that care and listen and if a guy is a great teammate- they work things out to benefit both parties. Foles has shown himself to be a good leader and teammate and I think that is valuable- so if he wants a shot - especially if Reich takes the Indy job - maybe you make a trade and Indy uses their top pick for a QB and sells off Luck for future draft capital.

Problem is that is not PI at most that is illegal contact since the ball is not in the air at that point. They could of had an extra play, but I think it was a good no call.