Rochesterfan

If they believe Rosen/Darnold/Allen is the guy then most definitely in less than 1 second. A top QB dwarfs all other positions 10 fold. Vander Esch, Moore, Rudolph and Penny can all be found strewn throughout the league, but if you do not have the QB it is all for not. A dominant roster can win on a random year, but a top QB can win for a decade or more. Give me the QB.

Horrible waste of capital. Just no way. If you are giving up that much - you had better get a top flight QB and then you compound he mistake by drafting 2 mid tier QBs. Now we have 4 QBs on the roster - 2 rookies that are no where near ready, a 5th round pick from last year with littl experience and AJ - what is the plan keep all 4 on the roster or are you getting rid of last year pick and wasting that capital also. If they move up - it had better be for QB not MLB or even worse - trading next years 1 for a WR. Sorry - everyone is entitled to their opinion, but goodness- I hope this is way off.

This is the essence of the Benjamin TD play against NE. When does he get possession- the ball hits his hands but he had no control. The ball comes toward his body and into his arms. When is possession established- the exact moment the ball touches his arms, a 1/2 second later as he tightens the grip because literally that was the difference in the TD. The ball touches his elbow space just as the 2nd foot is coming up off the ground. It is literally a split second and will not be changed by this rule change because possession is key. I think they got it right for KB - for me when he had full possession- he never established 2 feet down, but others see it different. Again 5-10 years ago this was not an issue because the ruling on the field was TD and the camera angles never would of been clear enough to focus in and see the play that clearly from that many angles. The best solution is to go back to 5 cameras at a game and eliminate HD and that would solve many issues, but as that won’t happen they are going to be fighting this issue every time a case presents itself because they are all unique.

Agreed - the rule became more complicated with the increase in HD and camera angles. Years ago you couldn’t tell a slight bobble or see it hit the ground. People will be happy until they are not - because the game is just faster, closer, with more views and more plays on the edge. They will relax the rule and the some guy for NE will be diving in the end zone to make a catch, get both feet down and lose the ball before hitting the ground and it will be ruled a TD and people’s head will explode and we will have 30 threads about it.

I think this I true an also lead to some holding calls as TT would break contain and the Guards would get caught tugging on the d-line. The NFL seemed to make an effort not to call holding unless it was blatant with the QB in the pocket. Many of us could see the tackles latch on, but it was rarely called, but if the QB escaped and the d-line moved to chase - that is when you saw the calls.

I disagree that it is a failure to not get to 3. We do not know what was offered, but Indy has a say also and even if Beane offered a better overall value- in this limited draft the drop back to 6 is so much better than 12. We won’t know for a while what he plan or offers were, but the Bills can not force a trade - they can offer, but it takes 2 and the drop back for Indy makes sense - especially if the Bills move to 4 or 5 - the Colts could get their guy and extra picks and that was not happening if they moved to 12. They also have a chance to move back again with Buffalo or Arizona and maybe double dip on the trade for extra picks.

Because it was the only move they had left - they have to say well we like all 3 and now we will get one for sure, but I still think the safest play is day of the draft for the Giants pick - I think they want Barkley - I don’t think they want a QB - new HC and GM with a veteran QB - they want to make a run. I think the Jets know/feel they are getting the 2nd QB off the board. If Cleveland goes QB - Giants probably go Barkley without a trade and NYJs get number 2 QB. The Only issue is if 2 QBs go - then they just gave up a bunch for the 3rd best QB and that is a much lower chance of working out. I commend them for moving, but without the draft playing out yet - it was to early to risk it with the roster they have and the coaching staff on life support.

Agreed - I think they have the deal in place with Indy already. It just will not be done until the draft to make sure in both cases a guy is not there or already gone. If the Browns do go Barkley at 1 (less likely with Hyde inplace) - I think the Bills have a deal with NYG set also to get their guy. In in the end - they will most likely pick 2,3, or 4 depending on who is on the board after each pick. I think they are getting their guy.

Awesome - I thought they were looking for well under 10 million a season - This is perfect and why they waited. Great Job.

I don’t think so. I think they had their eye on any of a couple of cheap bridge guys, McCarron, McCown, Maybe Bridgewater, with the knowledge that guys like Matt Moore would also be available. I think they they had a price and knew that once the carousel slowed down - they would have their pick. This was confirmed by Sal saying they really were not going after any of the more expensive name players.

His original mish mash thread was shut down after 1 post - it made no sense at all - not even the least bit cohesive. I am surprised this was has lasted this long.

In before closed

What? Hill is the guy that takes the top off the defense. Sammy may be fine there or he may not, but I think he will be the 4th target on KC like he was with the Rams.

Out of those three - I would go McCown, but I am not sure any of those 3 are the final choice. I find it it interesting how all of the big name FA QBs are getting very short term deals. Cousins 3 years Bradford 1 year Keenum 2 years Pretty big money, but short deals. I would be happy with a cheaper option for 2 years as a back-up/ bridge. McCown is fine, McCarron is fine, or just about anyone else - keep the cost below 9 million per season and I think we are looking good.

I agree with the thought that if you are devout - you tend to respect others of faith even if it is a different faith. I am pretty sure also if they are thanking God - the God is the same between the 2 faiths - Jesus is the difference - so as long as they are not all out there praising Jesus non stop - I think they can work this out.

They will I’ll be ok - if they are smart - they can recoup a 3rd via compensatory picks - just a year later.

I think the offense changes - the WCO was an Alex Smith thing. I think you are going to see Andy return to his original roots - thinking more like GB with Farve as a guide. Lots of deep passing and throwing it up for grabs. I think that fits more Mahomes style also and now you have a WR that can fit that - their version of Sterling Sharpe on the outside.

1 - Browns - Barkley 2 - Bills - Rosen 3 - NYJ - Darnold 4 - Browns - Allen I think this plays out and Cleveland is destroyed because they did not get their guy in Darnold.

I think the Giants have their eye on Barkley and 2 has probably been discussed with the Bills - but it is a draft day deal after Cleveland picks.

You don’t think they have already worked most of this out? Giants want Barkley- if he goes 1 we move to 2 and if Barkley is available at 2 we are going to 3. I think in either case it is for Rosen. I think they know that Cleveland is either Barkley or Darnold at 1.

They are not picking at 12 - not going to happen

Agreed - you also could not wait till draft day because they are not staying at 12 - they needed to move and now will be in further discussions with the Giants and Colts to get their guy. I believe it will still depend upon Cleveland at 1 to see their final spot - I think it comes down to Barkley.

I think it goes until pick one one comes off the board. I believe the Giants want Barkley. If the Browns take Barkley at 1 - the Giants move with the Bills and we get our choice of QB - I think it’s Rosen myself. If the Browns take someone other than Barkley - the Giants take Barkley and the Bills move to 3 with the Colts and take QB2 - I still think it is Rosen - I think the Browns would take Darnold at 1. I think they are playing things just about right.

Thank You - I was starting to pull data and you hit it. The move ups to the Top show a nice return, just as drafting those guys at that spot does without the trade up. Moving up to mid 1st and later yields worse results because the overall success rate is way down in that spot. The worst part of the entire thread is then when the OP comes back and says we’ll move up to 10 just don’t throw away the farm. Either you accept the trade up for a QB or you don’t - you can not say well the overall success rate for QB trade-ups is bad - so only trade up a bit - when that is the part of trades ups that have the worst return. If you are going up - Identify the QB you want at the top and go get him - that gives you the best chance at getting the best guy.

This is is what I said in another thread - I think there are a couple of problems - #1 being Haley. He is not a patient coach and he wants the QB to make the play in the flow - how many times has he and Ben gone at it because Ben holds the Ball to long - that will be an issue with TT also. Second he has WRs that got in QBs faces during seasons they were putting up big numbers and both WRs will have a chance at FA after this season and so they want numbers. If as we are hearing - Cleveland wants a run first offense and we know TT does not throw in volume - I see Gordon and especially Landry throwing a fit. Another big thing is that he is just a bridge - the expectations are to have him start until they can get their rookie in. We are not talking about designing and offense for TT as much as designing an offense for the rookie and TT has to play in that system for 8weeks or so. I think it will be difficult because TT needs a lot of time to develop with the receivers and if he knows it is only a short time until he is benched for the 3rd year in a row - I am not sure how great he will play. The last thing is that I am not sure this FO is locked into Hue and if they start off struggling especially in division games - I would not be surprised to see a coaching change meaning nothing is really on solid ground in that organization and I think that will impact TT.