Rochesterfan

This thread is just nuts - it goes from extreme to extreme and then small pockets of actual good dialogue. I really only have one point to make in this thread and I think it will bear seeing the other players in camp, but I believe Zay makes the team mostly because of position flexibility. Zay has played outside as both the 1 & 2 receiver (not great, but he has experience against both the top and second corners). He also has played some slot roles. I think this gives him a huge advantage in making the final roster because he can fill in at multiple spots and that is harder for a guy like Ray Ray or McKenzie or other guys mentioned to replace him. Sills and Duke Williams will be interesting because they bring some similar play, but not everything either - so they have to really show something to take his spot - bring something no one else can bring. I really believe the team is looking at roles and what each player can do. You have Brown and Foster really outside and Beasley in the slot. If Zay can sort of move around - it allows you to change formations and also give breathers or pull injured players and keep most things the same. I see a lot of other guys that can fill one or 2 spots, but I think Zay has the most flexibility overall. That is my opinion - I think he has a good shot at making the roster and having a totally average year and the coaching staff being fine with that if it is helping them win. He is a good complementary piece that can give you enough help to be useful, but do not expect him to be your #1 - that just is not going to work.

You do not need to wait to start the thread - even if they don’t sign him - he still would not be on the roster week 1. You could start it about Dez, or Brady, or even Josh Rosen - I don’t think any of them will make the Bills roster for week 1!

Shaw - I think the athletic article addresses the BPA versus need from Beane’s perspective. I quoted it another thread, but basically they rank by BPA and look for spots where BPA and need line up. If they match up you might make a trade to get that guy. If they do not match up - you either take BPA or look to move back and match value with need. It ends the draft BPA versus need questions and how they handle it.

I think we need to refer back to this when we get the crazy BPA versus need threads: Beane talked a lot about drafting the best player available. He’s quick to point out that doesn’t mean he’s not drafting for need. If three players fit the value of the pick, Beane will take the player who either fills the biggest need or fills the biggest need at a premium position. “But if you have two guys up there and neither of them are needs, you don’t go down the board to a guy who fills a big need,” Beane said. “At that point, you have two options. Take one of those two guys who don’t fill a need or trade down and try to select them at your value. I’m trying to handle need but at their value, whether it’s going up or going down.” This is exactly what you want BPA with need. This article combined with some of the other pieces where he talks about reaching on picks gives great insight into his philosophy and I love it!

Not necessarily- some guys are great at tracking the punts and kicks, but have trouble with the lower trajectory passes because they get there with a totally different velocity. Additionally - McKenzie could run some routes and made catches on comebacks and out routes. Therefore teams could not strictly assume a bubble screen or sweep was coming when he was in - Roberts has to prove he can do those things again. He did them well enough early in his career- so I do not see any reason he can not do it again and be the all around player for special slot, but he is older now - so let’s see.

This is my biggest question with the wr group. I see Brown and Foster outside - that works. I see Beasley in the slot, but he is not your jet sweep, bubble screen, move to the RB slot guy. I see Zay playing a hybrid outside/slot role depending whom they are playing and needs. Roberts sticks as the return guy, but can he catch if he is in the game? I could see him on Jet sweeps, but I do not know how good his hands are for actually catching passes - can he be a bubble screen and regular route runner on some early downs? If he can then you do not need the McKenzie/Ray Ray player on the roster - leaving the last spot for Duke or Sills. If Roberts can not fulfill that role and ends up strictly a KR/PR - then I could see McKenzie or Ray Ray or even Easley fighting for that role and we may end up having to keep 7 WRs if Duke or Sills end up as you big body Redzone guy.

I think at least early in the season he will be inactive - allowing him time to learn from Yeldon and Gore the art of blocking and blitz pick-up in the NFL. Then as the season wears on - if you need fresh legs - bring him in and activate him. Singletary has a lot of carries over the last few years - this will be his learning and recharge year - so he is ready to be RB1 next year along with any other pick-ups we get next off season. If we are 1-5 and Shady is having a great season - then maybe they would look to move on after talking with Shady, but that is very different than your trading him in the pre-season like Watkins. I do not see them moving on from Shady unless something happens as we get through part of the season and it makes sense to do so. I do not just see them trying to trade him for future picks as that has less value than his friendship with Josh and the way the rest of his teammates feel about him.

Why was Hunt available in the 4th - because of his history. He fell because of suspensions. Additionally - he was drafted by KC in the 3rd round not the 4th round - so what is the difference. He was drafted to be the back-up to Spencer Ware and only got to start due to injury. We are not to that point - maybe McCoy or Gore get hurt and he starts - we don’t know, but the situation here is similar. Both he and Hunt were drafted to be back-ups for a year and prove what they could do - exactly what you expect with a 3rd round pick.

I would expect RB to be a need going into next off-season no matter what. You have 2 guys in Shady and Gore that will make this team and will be most likely done after this season. That would leave only Yeldon left - now add Singletary and you have 2 - they will need additional help next year, but they will have had an entire year to see exactly what they have in Singletary and what they need to further address the position. Additionally, Singletary has a lot of wear on the body and this year will allow some time to recover - while still getting to know what he can do. He will not be the primary back and may be deactivated some weeks as he learns, but this pick was not necessarily about 2019, but looking at value on their board and 2020 as a goal.

My guess is all of this is true, but for QB what drives getting drafted - interviews, wonderlic, and especially how they do at the board diagnosing plays and understanding what they are seeing. I think what the stats miss is just how intelligent Josh Allen was and how well prepared his coach made him. Most people tried to tell Tyree he needed another year of college to mature and learn and I think that was the biggest difference.

Why we have 2 on the roster and both are more than adequate!

So trust them then - the RB is a pick looking ahead - like a real front office does. There was almost no WR in this draft that was significantly better than the 9 guys we already have - we can get the same level of talent as an UDFA. I have no issues with it because they seem to have a real plan as to what they want from this roster. Great Job Beane!

I guess I would ask what does he bring different to the team. I do not see any of these guys being a big upgrade to the WR position currently with the Bills. You have 2 speed guys on the outside, You have 2 slot guys that can split out wider, you have 2 young gimmicky slot WRs/RB types, you have 2 guys in Phillips and Duke Williams that are strictly WRs, and you have your designated returner. That gives you 9 guys right now and 99% of the WRs in this draft were no better and provided nothing. The one thing they may be looking for is the 6’5 big body guy like a Stills that could provide them something a bit different. Other than that any other WR picks are just wastes with a very slim chance at making the roster. At least that is my opinion.

Depends on your spin - especially with Watkins. We had 2 4th round picks that became 1 player in the third round. Hence a loss of 1 pick. If you hate the Sammy Pick - then our 2 number 1 picks became a different #1 that we used - so 3 number 1 picks on Sammy for the haters ?.

It is not 2 less chances because they got a 3rd round pick for it. So at most it is 1 less chance, but in dropping that 1 chance we increased the odds significantly by drafting a guy rated significantly higher. The move up in front of NE also appeared to lead directly to them trading out of the 3rd - probably because we stole the TE they were targeting there. Another huge plus.

I just love this - you give them a C and say well the skill players are unknown (to you maybe) or it is just a bunch of average guys, but guys that study the NFL for a living like CBS, BR, PFF, John Wawrow,, ESPN, NFL network are all talking about how the Bills are killing it. Who should I trust? CBS has giving them all A’s and a B+ for the picks, PFF has them as one of the top 5 best drafts. The guys actually scouting this draft have listed Oliver as the best 3 technique in the draft (but he is only safe to you) Cody Ford was projected to be a 1st round pick with position flexibility and can play the right side - which is what the Bills are looking for. Singletary (depending on the board) was considered top 2 or 3 RB depending on what you were looking for and based on production and film many sites had him listed as early 2nd round pick. Knox was another guy that fit exactly what they are looking for and many guys had him as the 3rd or 4th TE depending on what you want. He was the 2nd best dual threat TE behind Hock because of his usage in college. So please forgive me if I am not to worried about your C - because the guys that really understand the draft think they are hitting it out of the park and I see that they have a real plan and identity that they are drafting to.

Can’t tackle and lots of penalties - Dropped his stock a lot looking at him on film.

I agree - I also thought when interviewed - I had the same impression. Williams talked and looked like a young kid, but even with the enthusiasm- I thought Ed Oliver spoke and looked like a man with experience. Just really impressed me with how he sounded.

Look guys I am not going to give the OP any crap - as I said I went field because to me they addressed offense during FA period and I think they wanted DLine and then Oline at 9. The only potential pick from the OPs original group would have been Hock (maybe Fant with a move back and most other players selected) - I did not see Jacobs or Metcalf as legitimate first round picks for the Bills at all. I will give the OP some credit because Hock did go off the board at 8 and if Detroit had gone Oliver instead - that could have been our pick, but I think then they actively try to trade back - especially with Pittsburgh for Bush. I still think even then they go Oline over Fant, but that is only an opinion. The board called it right with the field and that was the correct pick.

Yep - on Twitter from the Bills also.

Sad Sad news - God Bless you Pancho.

In addition if you kept the picks - you could get your shutdown corner at the end of Round 1 - like a Tre White (several potential picks in this draft). The end of round 2 is usually a sweet spot for CB depth or Safety help. Several starters were drafted last year in that area - like Jessie Bates and Jackson. Now maybe neither of them equals Clark to you, but I think that combo helps you win more important games versus good passing teams than Clark does. You could also go WR as many talented WRs are taken at the end of Rd 2/early rd 3 - just look at Pittsburgh for examples and that could buffer you in case the Hill situation becomes worse and he gets a DV suspension or Sammy is injured again. They could also look at RB to help replace Hunt or LB to help with coverage - especially in nickel that they will be playing a lot. I understand the trade, but they forced themselves into it and I do not think they are a better team right now compared to last year and Clark although an improvement to the current roster is not an improvement compared to the guys he is replacing at significantly more money.

But you also would get to keep Ford. I understand changing scheme, but the Chiefs dumped two older pass rushers this off season that got less money combined than Clark and then gave up a first and a second in a draft this year that is the sweet spot for some top flight DBs - that they actually need to improve the defense. In the end - Clark is the better player and fits their new scheme, but the defense is not as good and you gave up picks that could easily be used to make the defense better. KC created multiple holes on the defense and then traded away multiple picks to fill holes they created and on top of that they way overpaid for a guy that is marginally better than the players they let go. I think their main competition- NE, Indy, Rams, and NO are less worried about KC with Clark because they can use a quick short/intermediate passing game to combat outside pass rush and KC defensive backfield is putrid. KC is going to pt up points - they need DBs that can actually cover, LBs that will not be exploited, and safeties that are going to be able to handle other teams passing games because they will be in shoot outs. I would have less issues with the trade if the Chiefs were a pass rusher away from being SuperBowl Champs, but they were not. The pass rush was not the issue - the LBs and DBs were the issue and the team just got rid of their top 2 rushers to replace them with a better overall player, but not one that increases the pass rush output and eliminates a chance at elite DB talent in this draft.

This is to me is the puzzling piece. Essentially they traded Ford, a first, and swapped thirds for Clark. Then they pay Clark a crazy sum of money on top of that. I would rather have Ford, the first rd pick (CB’s are perhaps the sweet spot there) and the earlier 3rd. Maybe Ford does not fit what they want, but with the lack of defense they showed - not sure Clark gives them much more and the loss of the first is the killer to me. Great spot for corner back help that they need.

Nope - I think he should start a new thread complaining about his answer. LOL - look exactly what was done - ??