Rochesterfan

Sort of. Daboll started in the booth, but as Josh was a Rookie and Peterman was the Back-up - there was not a good coaching/veteran presence to talk through looks with Josh and work to correct issues. He moved to the sidelines for better more direct communication with Josh especially right after series. Now they have a Veteran QB (limited starts, but experienced) and Ken Dorsey on the sidelines to discuss things with Josh. Thy are free to move Daboll up to the booth and still get the correct communication after the series.

I love this assessment and it is why I am happy what we are seeing for progress. I do not believe the Bills are over dumbing the playbook down and I do not believe they are by passing the learning phase. Overall it may take longer, but you end up with a better QB long term. I think Goff (and Kyler Murray to an extent) were given “cheats” by the HC that allowed them early on to know what to do without recognition. Once teams begin to move and prevent that - they are struggling more than someone that has had to learn it on their own.

Yes and some of those Beasley targets have been with him as the #2 WR - when they have 2 TEs in the game. Plus the other 5 WRs in more limited roles have been targeted 55+ times to Beasley 60 targets. I have no issue with how they are using Beasley and I believe by the end of the season both he and Smoke will have career highs in many categories. It just seems watching JA - he is still more comfortable reading and dissecting the coverages on the outside. Beasley - like Edelman in NE is open very quickly and then flows into coverage and NE at this time is great at using that play and Josh is a bit slower to pick it up. I am overall very happy with the growth shown.

Hap - I am no expert, but I believe that JA is simply much more comfortable at this point and time reading the outside receivers and coverages than he is reading the inside option routes. I just watch JA presnap on both game and “coaches film” and he seems much more comfortable with the reads and coverages he is going to get. I think that sometimes right now is causing him to miss Beasley even when he beats his man because that is a very easy area of the field to get a major mistake. I believe this is something that will get better - he is already using it more this year than last year with both Beasley and the TEs, but I believe this is the hardest part about trusting what you see and he is just not there yet. We see JA throw more to Williams, McKenzie, and even Foster and Jones to limited degrees as they line up outside - than he does to Beasley in the slot. Long term I think it will become a better part of the offense - I just think it took years for Brady to be comfortable reading and understanding the concepts and getting his receivers to see things exactly the same way. I am not surprised it might take Josh a bit over 10 weeks to get there.

I agree 100% - the fact that the staff decided to go all in on designing an offense around him has made all the difference in the world. He has grown by leaps and bounds and the offense he is in just works great for him. To me if people want to think about him on this team instead of Allen - I believe Jackson would be struggling big time to be successful, but still working hard. I just think that having Roman as the OC (a guy that has done this multiple times - with multiple QBs) just makes the fit special. Just as I am not convinced that had the Bills drafted Mahomes - we would be seeing the same guy we see in KC. I think having Alex Smith and Andy Reid on a team that already had a ton of offensive talent - helped him grow much faster. I don’t think he would have been a bust here, but I don’t think he would be in the MVP discussion either.

I do not even understand half of what you wrote here. There are multiple ways rules get introduced in the NFL - this has been the case for years. The number one way is the competition committee made up of coaches and GMs puts together rules that they want to see changed or updated. Sean Payton is a part of this group and he was hell bent on getting some kind of review in place. This is also the group that brought us the great catch debate for years as they could not define catch with the group. The individual teams also have the ability to submit rules that they would like to see addressed. Sometimes these are accepted and sometimes denied. The NFL and the Refs then have to take these approved rule and find out how they are going to fit into the current rules. The decision was that for the most part these challenges need to fail or we are going to get unintended consequences late in games and playoffs. They do not want these decisions to overturn how a game is being called.

I saw that - should of been a no call, but the Cardinal DB got in the way and prevented the 49er receiver from getting to the spot. The DB did try to turn, but he was running/moving much slower and the WR ran up his back trying to get to the ball. In my opinion, the best call would have been to just let them play, but the call could go either way and been fine. The DB cut off the WR and prevented him from his route. The WR also increased the contact and could easily have been called himself.

No it was the competition committee lead by Sean Payton that created the rule and the challenge. The League saw it as another catch rule failure - that also came out of the competition committee - and came out and stated early unless it was a play similar to the playoff game they were not going to overturn these in most cases. You saw the reason why in the preseason because the coaches were going to challenge every little bit of contact and it was going to make things unbearable. Therefore from early on - the league has overturned very few of these. If the refs on the field are letting them play and did not call this contact all game - I have no issue with it not getting overturned. It is clear that there is contact I would of had no issue with them throwing a flag for PI, but since they didn’t call it - I have no issue with them not overturning it. Watching the rest of the game - they allowed pretty physical play on the outside with few calls - so that stayed right in line with the rest of the officiating.

So when McDermott did that after fumble #1 and then fumble #2 occurs (like today) - then what? More encouragement and let him go right out for fumble #3? At some point - you take him out for a few plays/series and let the veteran with no ball security issues ensure that you do not fumble the game away. Why is it that most successful coaches like Belichek and Reid bench these guys for a few series, but when McDermott does it - well he should not do that. So if a kicker misses 2 kicks (ala 2 fumbles) you don’t think that plays into a coaches decision to go for it more on 4th down or go for 2. We watched first hand in Tennessee how a stubborn coach kept going back to a kicker having issues. That coach cost his team a chance at a win because he didn’t bench his kicker. Why would it not be the same for a guy fumbling. Suddenly all he is thinking about is not fumbling and he messes up assignments or he pushes it out his mind and fumbles again. Give him a break and let someone else take on the load for a bit.

100% false. The play and run was right behind Ty and the guy trying to tackle Singletary is the one to land on the back on Ty’s leg. It happened before the fumble and reversing of the field.

Was a suspension.

Doubt it, but maybe in your opinion.

Look - I don’t agree with the approach of posting fines, but Gase is not alone in thinking that works to motivate. It calls the attention of the player and the team - that you can’t do this and it shows that there is no favorites - everyone is treated the same. Since Gase has been doing this from his Miami days - why is Quincy surprised and mad that it was posted? He was not alone or singled out. Other fines were posted and I am sure this is one of the ways of notifying the players because they have to get notification of all fines. This blow-up is not about the fine - Quincy screwed up (not Gase) - he did not follow mandatory protocol for missing time - protocols that every team have in place about notifications of absence. This is about the players having a lack of respect in general for the organization and this being a rallying point. The fact is this was minor and created a huge issue in that locker room - just think if he had been on a team like the Pats. Those players if they think a storm is coming into the area - end up staying at the hotel at the field because Belicheck does not accept any reason for being late. He has fined and suspended and even cut guys that were a few minutes late during crazy blizzards. They did a piece about this where the players basically tell their spouse to get a company to shovel them out or start a generator for them - they will be at practice.

That would be true if he took League Minimum, but when he gave up big money and expected to be paid - the value ratio dropped. It is no different now. The NFL and Jay Z worked to set it up and even today he is making changes and doing it his way. My guess is deciding at the last minute to make more changes will cause him to fall further in teams eyes and there is less of a chance he is signed. Teams want to know they can trust the player and he just flies by his own rules - not a good look.

Take the Cowboys off the List. Jones said they are 100% not going - May watch the tape later. Still seems like more are staying away rather than going.

What the heck are you talking about. Gronk got a game suspension, Beckham got a game suspension. I am not sure what your point was supposed to be, but to show those 4 plays with multiple suspensions and then comment zero games suspended makes no sense.

For me: Garrett - 8 Regular season games - plus any and all games in between - plus a meeting to get re-instated. I would really like to see them in additionto the 8 games he is suspended - add the next 4 games against the Steelers once re-activated - that would really punish the player/team being out multiple division games Pouncey - I chose 1, but I think the kick really deserves 2, but I would be ok with 1. Ogunjobi and Randall both deserve some time with ejections in the game. Would love to see a half or a game, but that is tough with limited rosters.

I agree - my thought is make it 8-10 regular season games and take it into next year. If they make the post season those games do not count toward the suspension. If he misses the rest of this year and the first 2-4 games next year - then you have a bit of discipline to fall back on. They also need to get the NFLPA to discuss this and actually back the attacked player rather than fight for the scum bag.

Got it - you are correct - Sorry - misread it.

Can you tell me the way Shanahan and Pete from last night are like Jauron because they made similar choices that McDermott has made. Such as a last drive to kick a FG at the end of regulation by Shanahan that was identical to McDermotts. Or ho about Pete punting in OT with about a minute left. Maybe instead of making up garbage and contradicting yourself all over the place - actually watch other teams and see that maybe McDermott isn’t the biggest issue, same goes for Daboll.

I hear you!

Virgil - take it a step further and go back to the end of Regulation. The 49ers drive and the Bills drive were nearly identical - with the Bills actually being more efficient. Both drives traveled 40 yards in a little over a minute. Both lead to FG attempts that were nearly identical - the difference is SF made theirs to go to OT and we missed ours. The frustrating part is McDermott get blasted as playing for the tie and being ultra conservative and a defensive minded coach - Jauron Jr and garbage like that. People praise Shanahan and there is a thread about how he doesn’t play for a tie like McDermont- when he did the exact same thing. I get that people are frustrated, but it is not like Daboll is calling plays that no one else is running. His play calls are actually very much in line with a modern NFL plan. Just like McDermott is called conservative- when he goes for 4th downs more than average teams, plays a passing attack rather than a strict run based offense, and Doesn’t punt on every fourth down near mid field. He has gone for multiple 1st downs in plus territory and very rarely punts in that situation. People really need to watch and look at more games to understand the Bills are slowly becoming a more modern team and there are going to be a lot of growing pains associated with that, but in the long run they will be better as they continue to grow.

What I do not get is the fact that the 49ers went 40 yards at the end of regulation in 1:44 and kicked a FG to tie the game and go to overtime - with an aggressive Offensive Head Coach and no one here is calling him Jauron, but the Bills went the exact same distance 40 yards (with the starting point with 1 yard of each other) in 1:27 and tried to kick the same FG to send it to OT as the 49ers, but McDermott gets blasted. The last drive for both the Bills and the 49ers in Regulation was nearly identical- with the Bills doing it better than the 49ers, but the outcomes were different. McDermott is being called a conservative Defensive HC, while we have threads on how SF did not play for a tie - when they did the exact same thing.

it would not be the probability of getting 4 yards on any 1 play that is the question. It is the probability of getting a first down from any yardage on a 4th down play. The Bills have shown themselves to be adept at getting yardage (over 4 yards) at many points throughout the game, but the issue is that in critical 4th down situations - the Bills are one of the worse teams at converting on that down at any distance - be it 1 yard or 4 yards or 10 yards. The Bills are converting at a 27% rate for 2019 and it was little better last year. McDermott has not shown a fear to not go for it in these situations as he has gambled as much as anyone on the opponent’s side of the 50. The rewards just have not been there. It gets worse when you start to pull out 4 and 1 attempts because JA has gotten many of those via a QB sneak. The probability of getting 4 yards on 1st or 2nd down is much higher as the entire playbook is open because if you do not get the 4 yards you have additional tries. The probability drops as you get to 3rd down because you are more limited in play choices - typically a pass and a quick short pass. The probability would drop even lower for 4th down because now you have to get the 4 yards - so it is almost always a pass and late in the game a pass to the sidelines. Therefore you are increasing the defenses ability to know what your play is and what to attack. If you are Drew Brees and the Saints - they probability is higher you can get a first down. If you are the Bills or the Packers or the Rams, or the Cowboys that percentage is lower and you have to factor that into the decision tree. If you have (like the Packers) a zero percent chance on 4th down (they have not converted a 4th down in 2019) and you have a kicker you trust - that boosts the Fg% probabilities and decreases the go for it probabilities. In the end that doesn’t matter because people on both sides will come out claiming you screwed it up if you lose. That is the joy of being a coach.

Which is really part of the problem with these. That was percentages based on the the big ten - a huge difference from pros. These percentage based decisions also are based upon league averages. If the Bills are a below league average team on 4th down and >1 yard then the numbers would have to be revised to fit their current situation. For example if the league average conversion rate is 50%, but the Bills only convert 4th and >1 yard 10% of the time - using the 50% gives a huge boost to the probability that is inaccurate for the team in question. I get that you have to use league averages to have enough numbers to make the math work, but teams also have to look at their own make-up to know if they are better worse or at the average. Just a quick search shows that this year the Bills convert less than 27% of 4th down attempts and of the 3 made - all were 1 yard or less. That tells me that for this team you would need to revise the initial % chance to convert way to less than 27% - closer to 0-10%. What does your win probability look like if you switch 46% probability of converting to a more accurate Bills rate of 10%? Using the Bills percentage means the FG attempt would have a higher win probability than the attempt at 4th down.