Rochesterfan

Which is why they as owners have Roger stand up there and put out the “bad guy” news that the Bills need a new stadium and more importantly float info repeatedly about Toronto. Everyone keeps blaming Roger, but the league and the owners already knew the outcome of the “study” and now they have Roger once again push the buttons that to be competitive they need a new stadium and the elected officials need to start getting on board. Now the Pegula’s can swoop in with the study and push their agenda and kick in some money and look like the good guys and still get what they want. People just keep wanting to blame Roger - like he has any say in any of this. He is the owners mouthpiece - this is not his opinion- it is what the owners want.

See - the NFL looks like the bad guy - the Pegula’s respond and look reasonable, but both Goodell and the NFL knew this was done and they know what plan the Pegula’s want. Now the pressure moves to the financing and how much public money can they get. This is just the NFL doing its job - pushing for as much money as possible.

Here is the question and more importantly it is the answer to why the NFL talks about the situation and is asked every year. The NFL is working to get as much public funding as possible. First off - I do not blame Goodell - he is the mouthpiece of the owners - so what he is saying is coming from the viewpoint of the owners - including the Pegula’s. You do not think they know what the Pegula’s plan is. So this is just a shot to the NYS and Erie County Govt to be ready to bring some money. They talked about this at other sites like SD and St. Louis and when they did not get the money - those owners elected to walk. I do not think the Pegula’s will walk, but the NFL will use that as a push to get this done and they will continue to use the threat of Toronto to push their agenda. It really has little to do with revenue and more to push what the Pegula’s and the NFL want and it allows the NFL to be the bad guy and makes the Pegula’s the good guys when it is finally done, but the financing will come either for a huge remodel - $350-500,000 with an extended lease 10+ years or a $500-750,000 stadium downtown and a 20+ year commitment. Why the Bills constantly get brought up is because of the lease deal and it is always on the verge of expiring with various outs. They did the big upgrade and got a 10 years of deal, but a new ownership group also came in and allowed it to be discussed for several years. Once they make their plan and get things done - we will begin to hear about the next site the lease is coming up and they want public money - probably Cincinnati. For the people saying the Pegula’s should tell off the NFL and just re-up the lease. The NFL is talking for them and giving the warning so the Pegula’s do not seem to be the bad guys. The NFL will push as much public as possible and that will allow the Pegula’s to go in at a 50:50 deal with future upgrades and infrastructure upgrades and probably some upgrades to the arena as part of this and they will seem reasonable and will get what they want in the end.

I am sure someone with more knowledge can give a better assessment, but to me - I think they did not get the defense they expected at all. Probably because of the time of the game and the situation, but I think that confused Josh from before the snap. Typically you would expect either a man defense or a Zone defense and you make your read. It looks to me like Houston dropped 9 into coverage with a man/zone combo. Therefore I think Josh did not trust his read and fell back into college ball. I don’t know if it is “hero ball”, but it was see a guy and throw it. He did not look to me like he was “reading” the defense - I think he was confused and it was not the way they practiced it and you then revert to what you have done. As an aside - I was watching a Peyton’s Place on ESPN + and there was a great discussion with Steve Young about his development and how it took him forever to “trust” what he read and trust his throws and it really happened when his coach - I think it was McCarthy - told him he did not need to see to throw. They asked him to start making some blind passes in practice and trust his guys would be there. That propelled him to trust throws that early in his career he would never have attempted. I think this is what you see with many young QBs - they do not trust yet. I also think it is why Mahomes has had the success he has had. He trust his throws and it allows his guys to make plays. It is also why Brady struggled this year - after years of being able to trust and know where WRs and TEs are going - suddenly he lacked that and he ended up spiking the ball so much.

I understand this, but I believe Cover 1 has talked about this multiple times during the season. Bringing in DiMarco and Smith - should make the defense move to a base package. This should be a running package as you have a blocking TE and a FB. The idea is to force them into a base package by personnel and then by spreading that out - by who covers DiMarco- the QB should immediately know the coverage. Using Knox rather than DiMarco you put more of a receiving threat, but it also does not necessarily force the team to show coverage. They can play man with a safety on Knox or rotate and play zone. They are not covering Knox with a LB and that is a dead clue for coverage with DiMarco in the game. I totally agree Houston was not fooled and I do not think Dabol got the defense he wanted. It looks like Houston dropped 9 with man/zone concepts which I think is what confused Josh. Even with all of that - If Josh stays with the read - he has Brown open - which appears to be the design. If Josh was uncomfortable with Brown - there was the backside read of Singletary, but I think with the pre-snap read that play was supposed to go right and to Brown. If he felt it was not there - I wish he had pulled it down and run it with the 9 guys dropping he had some lanes. At no time do I believe the throw to DiMarco was planned - I feel that was Josh not feeling the throw to Brown and seeing an open lane to DiMarco. I believe next year the Bills have more plays off this - most importantly if they do not get the base coverage they want - pull DiMarco and Smith into a conventional formation and smash the ball at them. I think in the chess match of the game - Buffalo on that play did not get what they expected and did not have the ability for Josh to get them out of the bad play and into a good play against the defense. I also think it is a sign of the play design that even not getting the right defense for the play - the design still had 2 guys get open and if executed by the QB better - the play should have been successful.

The play design and use of DiMarco as the X was to dictate and tell Josh the coverage. DiMarco and Smith are attacking specific areas of the field to pull the coverage to them and that worked fine. Two guys everyone is complaining about being out on routes actually draw 4 of the 9 coverage men to them. The design seems to be a play set up for Brown press inside and then break out with single coverage trailing him. That also seems to work fine. Not sure why the timing or Josh’s read is off, but it looks like the play worked as designed and the read and execution by Josh was what was lacking. Singletary was most likely either a fall back safety valve or most likely the play is designed with the QB reading the coverage - if he gets one coverage - he reads the right side with 3 receivers with Brown as the primary receiver. If he gets a different look - he reads the left side and Singletary may be the read. That is typically how the NE offense worked - you ran zone beaters on one side and man beaters on the other - Brady identifies the coverage pre-snap - knows which side and which receiver should be open. Makes a simple throw. Josh just is not there yet and that is ok. The reading and understanding took years and lots of consistency from the Patriots- I will give them time. For all of the complaining- this is where I get frustrated. You can see the play design and call is not the problem. The right side had 5 in coverage and 4 are drawn to the 2 guys everyone wants out of there. The 1 WR should have been open and gotten a nice gain, but the execution was at fault as it was most of the season.

That was my thought also. I suspect Tua is the plan - just not sure Tyrod is the mentor. I think a new Veteran mentor that fits is more in the cards.

As a HC - he is an amazing Offensive Coordinator. I do not want him necessarily guiding my team on Sundays, but would love to have those offensive chops on my staff.

Totally McCoy. They were very concerned about mentorship or Devin. I think they wanted a pure professional as his mentor.

Wait - what? Dead money is typically money that was given as a signing bonus upfront. Owners have already paid the dead money usually - it is the remaining contract they save on - not the dead money. The dead money would be money the owner already paid to a guy no longer on the team.

Why? No, No, and nope on all of this. Not expected or surprise - they will keep the roster mostly intact. They will fill the few holes with lower to mid level players and then draft well. They will then let them battle it out in camp and cut or trade guys at that time to prepare for the next year. I expect few or no cuts of any kind because they do not need to open holes at this time - they have 30 roster slots and 90 million - cuts just are not going to happen in any large degree until camp. You are setting yourself up to be greatly disappointed with this list and your thoughts of big time FAs.

A touchback may be relevant, but if teams think you have a poor return man - you are going to get high and short - forcing a return and then those yards matter.. You also need to consider punts which rarely result in a touchback, but it vital and provides positive yards - ask Carolina before cutting Ray Ray after 2 fumbled punts cost them a game early in the season before their slide began. I will also point to a team like KC - their 3rd string receiver Hardman was their returner and did well - plus he netted them 26 catches for 500 yards - exactly what people are asking for, but you know what. KC still had 2 additional lower tier WRs active in most games. One was active in all 16 and the other was active in 13. The provided 12 and 9 catches respectively for the year. So even though their return specialist was a primary receiver - they still had to activate 2 “bodies” for wr that provided nothing. The only differences is that on the Bills one of those 2 “bodies” provided the Returns rather than the 3rd WR. It is really just arguing about where the production comes from as you were still going to have the same number of WRs active whether it was McKenzie or Roberts returning the kicks. The difference is the Bills saw value in a return specialist that could fill in at WR in a pinch. This is the same approach over half the league took. The other half used a top end guy such as a 3rd WR or 3rd RB as their returner and still activated additional WRs and RBs that sat the bench in case of injuries and provided what Roberts did as a WR.

Not exactly. If you had replaced Roberts with McKenzie and used their return averages (only thing we can do). Roberts on his nearly 60 combined returns accounted for 260 more yards than McKenzie would have just based upon the difference in their averages. That 260 yards is more yards than McKenzie had receiving for the season as the #3 WR on the team. It is also more than Foster and Duke Williams had receiving combined on the season and close to what the 2 of them and Zay Jones had combined for the Bills. His return yardage above replacement - would land him in 5th on the team for receiving yards as the #3 receiver. And that is just yards over replacement not the total number of yards he produced on returns. In the end you could of replaced him with McKenzie to open up a roster spot, but what would that spot have bought you. Your KR and PR yardage drops and as McKenzie played WR 3 most of the season - you are talking about dressing another WR that would have not seen the field. You increase risk and decrease Efficiency on returns for potential of having another WR that gives you less as a WR - like Foster.

At one point in the middle of the season the Bills were among the least penalized teams on ST in the league. It seemed they were getting more calls late, especially Alexander, but I still think they were in the top half of the least penalized special teams units.

Just a quick look at NFL.com looking at Kick returners and looking at their individual numbers show what you are looking for. Most of the top returners are WRs (few RB and DBs) and they tend to average around 20 catches from the WR position. Some like Tenn and Buffalo are under 10 and the Washington KR was top with 34 catches. Nothing earth shattering - very typical bottom of the WR numbers. You also have some RBs like Brandon Bolden in NE that returned Kick-offs and then basically sat on the bench with 15 rushes for the season. Additionally when you add Punt returns - you immediately see several teams were forced to use a different PR from the kick off returner (like NE) and their primary PR also provided nothing on offense with 2 catches and 2 fumbles on the year. What it looks like to me is that Buffalo is the norm and is lucky to have a guy that can do both kick and punt return and he was sure handed enough not to turn the ball over. 11 punt returners in the league had 2 or more fumbles on the year and 15 Kick Returners had at least 1 fumble. So in the end you have a guy as a specialist that returns both Kicks and Punts, does not turn the ball over, and is among the top returners in yards and efficiency and the complaint is that you get nothing on offense. The other thing o look at is who does it when Andre was inactive. McKenzie is the most often used player and he averaged 5 yards less per Kick return and 4 yards less on PR. Everything points to the Bills are fine using Roberts exactly as they are right now and continuing to adjust as needed.

Voted a bunch of times - will try more later this evening. Let’s go Buffalo.

I wonder if they will blow it up this year and let Marone be the fall guy. Then see where they fall and decide on a coach to rebuild. I would be looking to move on from or trade a bunch of those contracts - ala Miami. Then decide on the GM and Coach to rebuild it.

I thought they brought him in specifically for Foles and the Philly connection. Wonder if this bodes poorly for Foles and that massive contract.

Henry was huge, but to me the biggest difference is the Tennessee WRs made the plays and the Bills WRs didn’t. That TD catch was amazing and was significantly more difficult that the Duke Williams or the Brown catches both of which would have given the Bills big scores at a crucial time to put the game away. The catches by the WRs early - allowed the Henry runs at the end. If Brown pulls in that toe tapper and the Bills score a TD there - they get up 14-0 and if other things play out they are up 20-0. If Duke catches that ball - especially being held, but we see it many weeks, the Bills win the game. Josh made some mistakes, but much like last year - the catch radius and the playmaking by the Bills WRs is sorely lacking.

Wow match this with your Tennessee take - nice troll job. Unreal.

My god - what are you arguing. Once again (slower for you) - We were discussing the NYJ/BUFF game from years ago and how that would be interpreted with today’s rule. I am not sure how else to explain this. The discussion you keep quoting was not talking about this play in this game. In this game - the returner caught the ball before hitting the ground - so the ground part has absolutely no bearing on the play. As I have stated in this thread several times - what I do not know is what/how the safety signal works for this play and how this returner has used in earlier in the game and season. I also want to see other returns - because I think this has happened without the kneel down and not been an issue (just considered a touchback), but it was obvious both officials did not consider it a fair catch - so in that case without additional evidence - I think they should stay with the call on the field.

I think the issue is that like many rules - they define it during the off season with the videos and training provided to the teams and Referees. They many times allow things that fall outside the exact definition of the rules. We saw it with the catch rule and PI - sometimes they expand or contract definitions not by changing rules, but by changing emphasis. The kickoffs have been that way on and off this year, but what happened in the playoff game was a further extreme. As to Cody Fords block - that was a big point of emphasis this season. Offensive players are not supposed to block anyone if they are facing away from the goal they are heading toward. It is supposed to protect from blindside hits, but even in this case with the guy looking at him - it is still illegal. I don’t agree with the rule, but it has been called that same way many times this season. I think both rules are having the effect the NFL wants - they just suck for the timing.

Correct - the argument was why when it happened to the Bills in the Bills/Jets game it was a Jets TD. Since that game they changed the rule to mirror closer to punts to lessen injury. Kickoffs now that break the plain of the goal line and touch the ground are considered down once they touch the ground. That is new compared to the game in the Bills/Jets where the kickoff was considered a live ball.

This can’t be - I read right on here that the players don’t care and will be off on their millionaire vacations and only the fans really care. Especially because we coddled them by showing up at the airport - what could we be thinking. Duh!

I am not responding to McBride at all - read what I was responding to - the Bills/Jets kickoff from 2 years ago that was being used as a reference. I do tend to agree that I believe I have seen guys flip back kickoffs without kneeling, but I do not know what agreement or signals were in place.