transplantbillsfan

Are you trying to be witty or have a rational discussion, which involves discourse. That 51% to 49% number is just your opinion stated as concrete fact, though. You are presenting this opinion as though all must believe it, despite the fact that you've been presented with rational counterarguments. You get that, right?

It's funny that you refuse to respond to rational arguments, but choose to cherry pick phrases and sentences from larger arguments as indications that the whole argument is irrational. As for 51% vs 49%, I think any statistician would call that a statistical tie. This must be you actually conceding that your initial definitive "the correct answer is yes" was off-base. Thank you

Except it's not based on nothing. You just don't read. You're being silly. I don't mind someone saying they'd make the trade because Mahomes has been better than Josh Allen in his first 3 years and is better right now. That's what you're saying, and that's fine. But what you're also saying, which borders on arrogance, is that it's completely irrational to argue otherwise. You're arguing that the only thing you CAN consider is the past, and that's just silly. Since you're being silly, humor me with a silly exercise. Train A and train B leave a train station at exactly the same time on a parallel path and we know nothing about either's max speed or where certain checkpoints are... only the time each reaches 6 specific out of 10. Checkpoint 1: Train A (1 hour) Train B (3 hours) Checkpoint 2: Train A (2 1/2 hours) Train B (4 hours) Checkpoint 3: Train A (3 1/2 hours) Train B (5 hours) Checkpoint 4: Train A (4 1/2 hours) Train B (5 hours 45 minutes) Checkpoint 5: Train A (5 1/2 hours) Train B (6 hours 20 minutes) Checkpoint 6: Train A (6 1/2 hours) Train B (6 hours 45 minutes) Checkpoint 7: Checkpoint 8: Checkpoint 9: Final Destination: So, at this point I'm sure you've figured out that in my eyes, Patrick Mahomes is Train A and Josh Allen is Train B. Train B started waaaaAAAaaayyyy behind Train A, which clearly accelerated much more quickly and reached its top speed early, which it maintained very consistently. But train B, while behind, has been making up lost ground pretty quickly. Train A is clearly ahead of Train B right now. And maybe Train A isn't maxing out its speed, but Train B is. Or maybe Train B will need to stop soon for a lengthy refuel because it's using too much in order to run at such a high speed. We don't know those things right now, just what we have there. You're claiming I'm being irrational betting on Train B because Train A is still clearly ahead of Train B and always has been. And that makes you silly. You can't simultaneously claim that the past in terms of production for Mahomes is predictive while also saying that Allen's recent past in terms of drastic offseason improvement is fantasy. If you can't consider both, you're being silly. You can consider both and still reach the conclusion that you'd take Mahomes over Allen. I'd disagree. But at least at that point you're being honest in your consideration.

Yeah, you're right. That argument holds no water. It's also a disgusting twisting of one small part of what I said while leaving out a bunch of other important stuff: Mahomes has been the better QB, obviously. But he's benefitted from so many things that have already been talked about, including growing up with a professional athlete as a father, being recruited by D1 schools out of HS and playing legit college competition along with all the other KC stuff (Redshirt year, Tyreek Hill & Travis Kelce, excellent OL right out the gate, Alex Smith showing him the ropes, Andy Reid, being on a team that's made the playoffs consistently, etc.) in ways that Josh simply hasn't... and yet Josh, despite starting out 1 minute behind has pretty much caught up with Mahomes--or is pretty close to it--and also benefits from the added internal motivation from his hundreds of unread letters/emails to college coaches out of HS, the continued disrespect, and all those physical traits he has that Mahomes doesn't have--Josh is taller, huskier and stronger and is at least the equal in terms of arm strength and mobility. Plus, we've seen that he's now caught up (or is nearly there) in terms of accuracy, as well. Pretty much that entire paragraph is why I choose Josh on the Bills over Mahomes on the Bills. Which parts are irrational?

But herein lies the problem: This question is ALL ABOUT THE FUTURE!!! Right? This poll isn't really asking you who the better QB has been over the last 3 years or even just in 2020. It's asking you a very simple question: Do you believe Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes will be better from 2021 to 2035+???? That's the question being posed. What posters like @FireChans are doing is SOLELY looking backwards without even trying to look forward. The point is what's in front of us? Yes, their past play is obviously evidence, but the past play isn't the focus. And I almost view this as 2 runners in a marathon and one got a one minute head start. Both runners are roughly equal, but the guy who had to wait that extra minute is angry and extra motivated. Mahomes has been the better QB, obviously. But he's benefitted from so many things that have already been talked about, including growing up with a professional athlete as a father, being recruited by D1 schools out of HS and playing legit college competition along with all the other KC stuff (Redshirt year, Tyreek Hill & Travis Kelce, excellent OL right out the gate, Alex Smith showing him the ropes, Andy Reid, being on a team that's made the playoffs consistently, etc.) in ways that Josh simply hasn't... and yet Josh, despite starting out 1 minute behind has pretty much caught up with Mahomes--or is pretty close to it--and also benefits from the added internal motivation from his hundreds of unread letters/emails to college coaches out of HS, the continued disrespect, and all those physical traits he has that Mahomes doesn't have--Josh is taller, huskier and stronger and is at least the equal in terms of arm strength and mobility. Plus, we've seen that he's now caught up (or is nearly there) in terms of accuracy, as well. Do you think 2020 was a fluke year for Josh? If not, why would you not expect him to continue to improve? In the same way you're going on the past in terms of Mahomes's success, why aren't you also going on the past in terms of Josh's consistent offseason work that has contributed to drastic improvement that happened from year 1 to year 2 and then again from year 2 to year 3? It's a funny argument to me to say that Mahomes has already done X and O while completely disregarding the Y for Josh, which has been constant work and consistent improvement in his game. That's why you don't make that trade.

Chris Simms was asked on his "Unbuttoned" Top 40NFL QB Countdown preview what would happen if Mahomes and Allen were swapped last year and Allen was on the Chiefs in 2020 and Mahomes was on the Bills. He argues that Allen and the Chiefs still would have been in the Super Bowl. That discussion starts about 23 minutes in for anyone interested.

To be fair to Fairburn, there was a 2nd half to this response that I didn't post... here it was: If we take quarterback out of the question, I’d trade Dawson Knox for either George Kittle or Travis Kelce. Both tight ends would be huge upgrades. Kittle would be the better long-term play, but Kelce may be the more dominant player in the short term. Imagine the Bills’ offense with one of those players running alongside Diggs, Sanders, Beasley and Davis? That wouldn’t be fun for defensive coordinators.

I think you seriously underestimate the benefit of a redshirt year for Mahomes behind Alex Smith under the tutelage of Andy Reid and the talent already surrounding him in his first year with Hill and Kelce already rolling and a pretty stellar offensive line compared with what Buffalo had. Josh Allen had Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Robert Foster and Charles Clay and an offensive line full of general junk other than a rookie Dion Dawkins.

Do you believe Mahomes would have found similar success if he were drafted by Buffalo in 2017 at #10 with Buffalo's coaching staff, talent, and the likelihood that he would have had to start at some point during his first season considering McDermott decided to start Nathan Peterman at one point? Mahomes has more accomplishments and accolades at this point. I view that as a tangential argument to the ceilings of either player.

Yes you can be a multiple time league MVP and, more importantly, multiple time Super Bowl winner.

I don't know how much this topic has been covered over the years and I'm sure this won't be the last of it, but in The Athletic's weekly mailbag Matthew Fairburn was asked the following: If you could do a player swap for any player in the NFL, who would it be and why? Rules are as follows: both players have to be starters, and the players being traded have to occupy the same position. So no WR for CB. How specific are we getting? I think we should differentiate 1 tech and 3 tech. Hopefully, that gives you a good framework. – Matt W. And here was Fairrburn's response: I don’t mean to disrespect Josh Allen, but swapping him for Patrick Mahomes seems to be the move. I would say that about every team in the NFL right now. Quarterback is the most important position in football, and Mahomes is the clear best quarterback in the league. No player would have a bigger impact on a team. I wouldn't. I guess this is just another indicator I'm too much of a homer...? The thing is that I realize that at no point in the last 3 years can you necessarily say that Josh was better. But to me Josh is still ascending and Mahomes is pretty much what he is already... which is fantastic. I also think Mahomes has benefitted from a better roster (especially the weapons around him) and better offensive coaching and development (love Daboll but Reid >>>> Daboll). I also think Allen is more physically to last in the NFL. And frankly I just think Allen's mentality/attitude is better than Mahomes. I readily acknowledge that Mahomes has been better than Allen. However, I don’t believe the Bills would be a better team over the next decade plus if we simply swapped QBs and kept everything else in place. What say you?

Josh is the type who really seems like he'll take care of himself physically and mentally. Barring a tragic career ending injury (and I shudder to even say that), he should be our QB and maintain our "Contender" status for the next decade and a half.

Who cares? He's still too low. Yes, that top 6 as a whole is almost indisputable, but Allen at 6? Are they taking multiple years? Are they projecting moving forward? I don't think anyone can say it's "accounting for the talent on the team" because both KC and Tampa Bay are uber talented on offense... probably moreso than Buffalo.

Our next POTUS?????? Ron DeSantis are you high???

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/josh-allen-throws-first-career-touchdown-pass

He has one big thing going for him that Bills fans can ALWAYS remember him fondly for as a good bit of trivia because he's the answer to the following question: Who caught Josh Allen's first Touchdown pass?

Yes the Indy game is what gives me hope that "Sugar High Josh" won't show up too much even with fans in the stadium. With that said, that late fumble was a pretty accurate representation of "Sugar High Josh" and who knows what the outcome of that game is if DW doesn't fall on that ball.

100% agree. Homefield advantage will be a HUGE benefit to our Defense!!!

So I am thinking (or maybe more that I'm hoping...?) that 2020 was a blessing in disguise for Josh Allen. I always thought that Kyle Brandt's "Sugar High Josh" was more likely to show up in home games because he was always so damn excited about the fan support and eager to please them. I thought the fans not in stadiums for most of last season may have served as a little bit of a calming factor for Josh. Now that he's older and has his year of massive success, I'm thinking/hoping that the homefield advantage will be a true homefield advantage for everyone on the team, including Josh.

So is that the "Saturday games" week like last season vs. Denver? On the Bills official website it actually says "Mon, 01/01 TBD" ... bizarre.

God that sounds so weird.

Why is the Carolina game "TBD" and what does it mean?

Seems a frighteningly gleeful thread based on very little data from a single jobs report very early in an Administration... but... On the Ds, huh? Why don't you tell everyone pandering to you and your complaining in your whiny thread here how much Covid relief was passed under the Trump Administration with a Republican Senate? And yet... it's Biden who's fully responsible for what you're prematurely whining about???

I'm surprised this game hasn't been announced already. Isn't this one usually announced early? Like days early, not hours...?

Been thinking Buffalo would get the Thursday Night Opener for awhile. Dallas is Dallas... so they're always in play. But for legitimate Football fans Bucs vs. Bills is a much more enticing game.