transplantbillsfan

Fun fact: Andrew Luck and the colts are 25-0 when the opponent is held to less than 20 points. Good defense = wins & Bad defense = losses... for a lot of teams... even ones with good QBs

This thread is absolutely out of control with people selectively reading what they want to read and narrowly examining points in simple-minded fashion, often on purpose, rather than discussing the issues rationally and reasonably. It's too bad this is what these Taylor threads always devolve into. I'm out. An evening surf session beckons

Hunh?! Dude, you're all over the place... maybe that last time you had to change your username post "Ryan" ban messed up your mind a bit. Probably safer if you just ignore me

Where did I say Taylor was the 7th to 12th best QB the last two years? I said I thought he was the 12th best in 2015, only 2015. If I were to put a number on 2016, he was probably somewhere around 20. Bruh, try reading

I just like talking about the QB. I love football, but QB is really just the only position I'm interested in talking about. And Taylor has looked good enough to give me hope for the future. If that's what a homer is, I guess I'm one of them. But I didn't think that's the way that term would be defined. I'm not confident in saying anything about how he'll play this year. I'm going into the year with a really open mind because I could see him falling on his face and I could see him being really good. I'm glad we got those two extra first-round draft picks because if he falls on his face, I'll be eager to see who we draft in the first.

We can do a fun bet on total yards if you want. But again, I'm not doing naming rights. You were the one who wanted to do this bet, so come up with other terms.

Oh, passing yards. I don't really feel like making that bet. You confuse me with someone who believes that Taylor is going to be some kind of elite or Hall of Fame QB. I don't really know what he's going to be. I just think he's done enough to earn another year. I could see Glennon getting more passing yards because of his team being behind constantly and an offense of system that has been passed ball a lot. That doesn't mean much, to me. If you're one of those people who measures the success of a passing offense solely by raw yardage I'm not with you in any way. I am curious, though, why are you afraid to bet that Taylor has more total yards then Glennon has?

I'm not doing naming rights. Come up with something else. But again you're saying total yards? Passing and rushing?

You want to bet that Taylor gets more total yards than Glennon? You seem angry...

Oh c'mon man... I addressed this above in my post to Thurm a bit, but no, I do not feel the same way about Kaepernick.

It was unlikely for Taylor to ever win the starting job in the first place. Incredibly unlikely. He did it. He played at a higher enough level that the new regime wanted a longer look, which in itself is impressive considering how often new coaches want new QBs. Taylor has already broken the "rules" that you think matter. They don't. Time to crumple them up and throw them out the window.

Your "passing TDs are all that matter" agenda is absolutely an incredibly amazing! Keep it up, at least it's entertaining

You and I are almost exactly on the same page in terms of Taylor's 2015 season. I put him at 12

I really wasn't trying to be snarky. I don't think Taylor was the seventh best QB in 2015. I think he was more like the 12th best QB. I said "a reasonable person." Maybe you're a reasonable person having an unreasonable moment, but saying Taylor was the 20th or 25th or worst QB in 2015 is far from reasonable. And it would be equally unreasonable to say that he was the best QB. What's the magic number for you? When does it start becoming "reasonable?" Do you even understand what I'm saying? I'm guessing that your belief is that only "reasonable people" believe Taylor is exactly as good or bad as you believe he is. If that's what you believe, Let's just and what turned out to be an explanation of something that shouldn't have needed to be explained to you.

Do you have early onset Alzheimer's Thurm or are you just being intentionally dense so as not to be wrong about something? It seems one or the other here, because you specifically stated when I presented that criteria to you that you could easily come up with 50 or so guys and clearly now you either don't remember (and you can easily go look through our past conversations to find it set forth to you, don't act like it would be that hard or take that long) or you're trying to twist the narrative to suit your purpose. The QBs you put forward do not match the criteria. Why does the criteria matter? Because none of those QBs sat on the bench for all of the four years. They started in year three, or even four, or two. That means that they had more time to be Evaluated. Bang asked me if I felt the same about Collin Kaepernick as I do Taylor, I assume it's because Kaepernick is going into his seventh year as well, but Kaepernick has 57 career starts under his belt. He's started double the games Taylor has started. We know much more concretely what Kaepernick is then we do Taylor considering over five seasons he had a significant number of starts. Taylor sat on the bench for four years behind the incumbent starter. It's not like there was a kewpie battle to win. He didn't have any opportunity to start until he got out of his rookie contract and went to another team where he earned at the starting job and played at NFL starting QB level. And he's been doing it for two seasons. Watching any QB play at the level she did for two seasons as his first two seasons starting our intriguing at the very least. It's the reason Taylor is still in Buffalo despite there being a new coaching regime, a new GM, a top 10 draft pick to go out and get "your QB" or the opportunity to go get a QB in FA. I'm gonna say this again, just in case you forgot since you seem to forget easily, your arbitrary seventh year thing isn't a thing in this situation because this is an incredibly unique situation. You can't find a single QB who sat on the bench for his first four years and then started in year five, so what sense does it make for you to quote history as though it's definitive in this case? It's not definitive and the odds are really no more against Taylor (generally speaking) than they are against any other 3rd year starting QB who's played really well at times and poorly at other times, but has generally looked like he belongs under center as a starting QB. There are no insurances that Taylor will improve, but saying the odds are so starkly against him because of some arbitrary seventh year rule is simply ludicrous when you consider the rules that have already been broken here.

How do you know? Have you finally done the necessary comparative film study to really make this kind of statement? Or are you just making assumptions? What are the rates on normal NFL QB will miss open receivers versus Taylor? How significant is the difference? I suspect all your doing here is making an assumption. Someone brought up and the Benoit and his comments on Taylor missing receivers. It's an issue that Benoit has had with Taylor for a long time. It also seems like it's quoted as gospel. Here are some alternative thoughts from a guy who scrupulously went through the film of every single QB in the NFL from 2016: "Benoit has consistently been one of Taylor's most ardent critics and that was his most damning statement. It's a fair criticism that Taylor will miss open receivers at times. whether the veracity of what Benoit states is true is more debatable." and "There are times when one negative can be so bad that it ruins the rest of the positives in a player's skill set. If that was the case with Taylor it would be fair to focus on his missed plays but it's not." and "in 2016 Taylor did a better job getting off his first read and cycling through his progressions to find the open receivers. That didn't mean he didn't miss receivers, but the good severely overshadowed the bad." and "You could ignore all the context. You could just point to missed throws. It'd to be about as rational as throwing out a four course meal because you're a fork is bent." That's from Cian Fahey's QB catalogue for which he watches and breaks down every single snap from every single QB in the NFL.

*sigh* Except Taylor gains 8 yards per scramble. That's more yards than all but the 5 best QBs in the NFL in YPA when they pass the football.

Benoit? One of my guys? Ummm... nope... You're all sorts of confused now.

Why the hell would you think that?

I said somewhere in there, yes. I said exactly "By whatever measurements or metrics or I tests you want to use, you could put Taylor anywhere from 7 to 15 reasonably, I think." To which you reply... With this... as though he was definitively 7. Just some strange interpretation there.

How did I know 7 would be the number someone like you would believe I was saying Taylor belonged. That isn't where I think he was, btw... read what I said... C'mon man!!! Can we all try to stop selectively reading posts?

So, you really just don't want to address the point? I'm really interested and legitimate discussion here. You were the one that told me 50 guys met the criteria that I sent forth. You said that. And that's the criteria that you're now saying you don't care about? If you really just don't want to discuss because you're incapable of ever being wrong and admitting it, that's fine. I was legitimately intrigued and kind of hoping you could actually find 10 guys out of your list of 50 Who met the criteria that I gave you and you said at least 50 guys easily made it. Some real communication issues here. I certainly can't say I'm guilt free, but it's hard to talk to someone seriously about an issue when they're on the other side of the road searching for keys under the streetlight while you're sitting in their running car because they told you to go unlock and start the car while you paid the bill. Such a shame...

See, what you can easily find or 50 to 100 guys who sat on the bench for most of the rookie contract like I said and then maybe got some kind of a chance to start after that. What does not happen is that those QBs end up winning starting jobs and then playing at starting QB level once they get their opportunity. Why are you including Gannon on this list? He started 14 games in his fourth year. So, basically, you apparently can't think of a single QB who meets the criteria that you actually said 50 or so QBs met. You say the odds are against him. Guess what, he already broke those odds. There isn't a single NFL QB (apparently, i'm relying partly on your own trustworthy mind) has done what Taylor has already done. And so your arbitrary rules don't really seem to apply here since those rules have already been broken. Taylor is already doing what "couldn't be done" so saying the odds are against him to keep it up, seems kind of weird.

Certainly not 20th. That's just ludicrous. It's ludicrous in the same way it would be if you were to say that Taylor was a top three quarterback in 2015. By whatever measurements or metrics or I tests you want to use, you could put Taylor anywhere from 7 to 15 reasonably, I think.

If you're saying Taylor was the 20th best QB by production in the NFL in 2015, you're being ridiculous You and I are generally on the same side with Taylor, but now you're backtracking regarding something we don't agree on. You essentially guaranteed the Bills would take a QB in the 1st round next year... now you're saying only if the "prospect they have identified" is still there...? Which is it? Not a clue how many QBs match the criteria. I can't think of a single one off the top of my head. I'm still waiting for someone to give me names. Thurm said that he could come up with 50 names. I'm still waiting on his list of 10. Do you even have 5? Maybe I'm getting you mixed up with other posters. It's late. I could be mistaken. Did you not insinuate that I would be very unlikely for Taylor to improve and/or become a franchise QB given that he's going into his seventh here at this point? If you did not, I apologize. If you did, that was the point of the post. Taylor is already the exception to the rule. Saying he won't do this because no other QBs ever do this is shortsighted considering that Taylor has already done things that QBs never do. And that's not me saying he will, that's me saying this is still up in the air and anyone defining him one way or the other concretely is misguided.