transplantbillsfan

I haven't read a single post in this thread and can't imagine the heat but it's getting right now, but I think you might be right. That loss on Thursday might actually have been the tipping point. We have eight more games to go, but that was a damn impressive game in dire circumstances for Taylor. He has really progressed in terms of moving around in the pocket, which is absolutely something that a shorter QB needs to do in order to pass from the pocket. He can't just stand tall in there and deliver because he needs to be able to see over the towers around him. Without even reading this thread I can already foresee all the crap that people are saying. But just listen to and look at what McDermott has been saying in the last few weeks. Looks like they might be thinking Taylor is our future, as well. McDermott already set it before the start of the season, anyway. And just some interesting facts: Against the Jets -the Bills averaged 8.6 yards to go on 3rd down. -the Bills had 7 plays of zero or negative yards attributable to anyone but Taylor (6 RB rushes & one idiotic snap) -"Garbage time" is an overrated discussion, but only 110 passing yards and 1 passing TD were in "garbage time." (It really didn't look like the Jets let up at any point on defense, though) On the year -Taylor has faced the 2nd most 3rd and longs (8+ yards) amongst QBs in the NFL. 1st is Phillip Rivers. Yet... -Taylor has the 7th best 3rd down conversion % when passing in the NFL. -Taylor has the 5th highest passer rating in the NFL when trailing. Get rid of those "garbage time" yards & TD and he drops only to 6th, but if I did that I'd have to find "garbage time" (which exists really not just when you're really far behind but also when you're really far ahead) for every other QB. So... 5th. This faction arguing "Taylor's just not good enough" seems to be getting smaller and smaller or quieter and quieter by the week (there are a couple posters I've noticed during the year who only popped their heads out briefly for comments after Carolina and Cincinnati... too funny), which is a testament to how generally steady Taylor has been all year. I'm still not ready to buy my Taylor jersey, but he might be our guy

Passer rating doesn't mean squat? That's not what you said just a couple weeks ago

175 passing yards and 1 TD before garbage time. Taylor was good last night. He's improving as a QB. Amazing that some are being this hard-headed. Yes. But there were 60 more yards of non-garbage-yards that came in the 3rd quarter before the wheels came off for the team with the O'Leary fumble.

Why do you act like what Romo said mattered? I kinda got the impression Romo was biased and had his mind made up on not liking Taylor. That helmet to helmet hit on Taylor was clearly a penalty and Romo dismissed it as though "well once you get out of the pocket QB rules don't apply so good they didn't throw the flag." Ummmm, no. It was a penalty. Romo at one point said something really stupid about how he wished Taylor stayed in the pocket and took a hit rather than escaping. I can't even remember the exact play, I just remember watching the play and thinking (yet again) how amazing it is how bad our OL was and how lucky Taylor was that he could escape all that pressure and still make some positive plays and Romo wants him to stand in there and get clobbered? I like Romo as an announcer. But just because he's a QB doesn't mean he's always right. In fact, he might be more biased than any announcer out there because he might have his own vision of how a QB should play.

This conversation is pretty clearly pointless, anyway. For posters like MAJBobby, jmc, xRushx, etc. there is literally nothing that will move the needle for them. All the good games will do will keep the needle in place. Bad games OR losses (because a win can be a bad game for a QB like last year against Cincy and a loss can be a good game like yesterday or last year vs. Seattle & Miami) will move the needle precipitously backwards. It's half a step forward for the good or great and 10 steps back for anything that they think they can paint as bad, even though it might not be. I'm painted as one of Taylor's biggest homers and even I don't think he's an Elite QB and I never think he will be. But really there are only 3 or 4 Elite QBs in the NFL, anyway (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben) and then a whole slew of guys in a tier beneath them that is the majority of QBs in the NFL. These are QBs who are clearly capable and NFL worthy, but they need more circumstances surrounding them (OL, WRs, a running game, OC, etc.) in order to be really good, but with the right circumstances, they could have great seasons, the way Cam Newton did a few years ago or Matt Ryan did last year. Last year over at BBMB I started a thread about these tiers and I talked about Matt Ryan specifically being in tier 2 and how Taylor was in the same tier. I got slammed with posters (what the heck ever happened to Larry, anyway?). When the season ended, while everyone was touting Ryan as suddenly Elite, I predicted that he'd take a massive step backwards this year with the departure of Shanahan. And look what's happened. What I think McDermott and Beane seem to be realizing is that Taylor isn't good enough to never consider an upgrade, but he's good enough to not aggressively try to upgrade. Taylor's good. He's better than any QB we've had since Kelly. And he's actually improving, albeit in ways that don't necessarily pop out on the stat sheet. We're at the point where it's no longer our QB who's holding us back. Actually last night only 110 of his 285 passing yards came in "garbage time." 175 passing yards, 1 passing TD and no interceptions came in very meaningful minutes. Besides, "garbage time" is dumb to even talk about unless you take it out for every single NFL QB. Derek Carr got over 300 yards last weekend thanks to mostly garbage time yards. PFF says:​ QB TYROD TAYLOR, 73.3 OVERALL GRADEWhile Tyrod Taylor was not his best on Thursday night, he still was able to produce some quality throws while also getting himself into trouble. He had two sacks, a hit, and a hurry charged against him by moving out of the pocket early or not throwing the ball away. I hardly think 2/7 would qualify as "most" to anyone

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/11/3/16602430/analysis-tyrod-taylor-was-not-the-problem-in-thursdays-buffalo-bills-loss-to-new-york-jets Analysis: Tyrod Taylor was not the problem in Thursday’s Buffalo Bills loss And I will fight you if you want to argue otherwise by Dan Lavoie

I don't know if I think it was his best game (I think the Bucs game was), but man, it's like the wheels fell off for the entire team except Taylor. Penalties galore. A rookie WR who was previously struggling finally hits his stride then gets injured. WRs dropping catchable balls. WRs fumbling and turning the ball over right after making what appear to be critical 3rd downs. An OL that gives up 7 sacks to a team that only got 11 in the previous 8 games. A running game that had 6 carries for negative or no yardage. A center who screws up a snap. ...and that's just on offense. Talk about missed tackles by the defense!!! Taylor was 90% of Buffalo's offense yesterday. We averaged 8.6 yards to go on 3rd down. No way was Taylor perfect. Probably 2 or 3 of those 7 sacks were on him. But good God... I can't believe how much he's getting killed by some after being potentially the lone bright spot last night

Or Derek Carr from last week. Or Drew Brees in TONS of games over his career. Yeah, 110 of Taylor's 285 passing yards were in what you would call "garbage time." But that garbage time came after a score by the Jets due to the 2nd of 2 absolutely bone-headed turnovers by a receiver who had just kept the drive alive momentarily on a nice pass delivered by Taylor. Taylor was 90% of our offense and he's just not a good enough QB to carry 90% of the offensive burden. I think only 2 or 3 QBs in the NFL could. Glad we have 9 days rest to get Benjamin acclimated and fix some recurring issues with our OL

And then, what??? Are you seriously saying our QB, who currently has the 5th best passer rating in the NFL when trailing, sucks? We lost because our OL sucked, our WRs fumbled the ball away and dropped critical passes and our D laid an egg. Taylor's at the bottom of the list in terms of responsibility for this game. Excited now that we have Benjamin and that Clay looks like he's about to be back

we are behind in games. 5th highest passer rating, behind only Alex Smith, Tom Brady, Deshaun Watson (who's had significantly fewer snaps & pass attempts when trailing) and Russell Wilson. Comparable amount of attempts when trailing to all NFL QBs. Too bad our guys fumble and turn it over (O'Leary & Matthews) or simply drop it (Holmes) on critically coverted 3rd downs. Love that we made a concerted effort to involve Jones. Sucks he got hurt. Hope it's not serious. Still 6 rushes for negative yards or no gain. A center who snaps the ball as though his QB is in shotgun when his QB is right up under him. Crazy ridiculous penalties for a team that's been relatively penalty free. Taylor was responsible for maybe a couple sacks, but does anyone seriously think these sacks this year are more on Taylor than an OL, especially after we allowed all those sacks to a team that had 11 total on the year? Love the Benjamin move. Time to make a 2nd half push. Taylor's clearly capable. Hope McDermott loosens the reins a bit

Damn, I come in for a split second and the only post I see is this dumbass one

I moved seats guys! Hope it helps!

Well that's a misleading stat considering some teams have played 7 games and some have played 8.

No, 3. You're talking pass attempts per game, right? https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/pass-attempts-per-game Only NE at 4, Seattle at 8 and Denver at 10

Love the article. Really nice piece. I think this quote about blackjack sums up the "Great Debate" pretty well: "Almost every week, you'll pull one throw from his game tape that's obscene, that almost no quarterback can make," Monson says. "Dumping Tyrod Taylor because you think you can do better is like hitting a 17 in blackjack," Monson says. "You can do better than your hand, but you probably won't."

2016 Teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds had 35.8 pass attempts. Teams with head coaches with defensive backgrounds had 32.9 pass attempts. Because historically that's what defensive coaches want, see the last 2 years as examples of that trend

He's the head coach, dude! Are you friggin serious?!?! McDermott isn't calling individual plays but you can bet he's the one dictating the offensive philosophy, ala attacking offense vs. ball control offense. Do you actually think a head coach just says to his OC, "yeah man, do whatever you want, I don't care."????

How is it revisionist or a simplistic if every single year the average of every single defensive minded head coach always passes the ball last van the offensive minded head coach? If the average is consistently higher for the head coach with the background in offense, that's not revisionist or simplistic, that's a trend. Also, I made a mistake in my calculations. I meant to exclude John Harbaugh from the numbers because he has a special teams background, and for some reason I excluded him in the numbers themselves as I added them up, but I included him when I divided the total number. Actual number: 2017 Defensive HCs: 31 pass attempts per game 2017 Offensive HCs: 34.8 pass attempts per game

Not all that surprised you can't make sense of it. Like I said, I'm glad I've learned that spending significant time arguing legitimate points with you is pointless I didn't see him say that. Did you? He misstated at least one thing: McDermott only likes to pass a lot when we're trailing. We've only trailed 35% of the entire season. Majority of Taylor's completions, yards and TDs came in that 35% of the season. And Taylor has the 6th best passer rating in the NFL when trailing.

Are you referring to Rick Dennison who was reporting to his boss (Gary Kubiak) who was very much an offensive minded head coach? Thanks for proving my point considering I think we can all finally agree that Tyrod > Siemian Not really overstating it at all actually. You point to our current OC. I appreciate that because I forgot that he worked with an offensive Head Coach in Kubiak last year with a worse QB in Siemian and he seemed to have been given free rein while this year he's working with McDermott, a defensive minded Head Coach and a better QB than last year in Taylor and he seems to be more restricted. Great example! Thanks.

2 attempts is actually pretty huge when you consider that it's taking every single team in the NFL and splitting them into 2 camps. And that the defensive camp includes plenty of really good QBs, with the GOAT and a shoe-in future HOFer included in there. And once again, if I showed you the numbers for the last 15 years and it was CONSISTENTLY that the offensive HCs had teams that would pass more on average than defensive HCs, you might stubbornly drag your feet and piss and moan about the fact that it doesn't mean anything, but it most certainly would. A consistent difference in pass attempts, even if it's just 1 or 2 per game, pretty clearly sets an obvious and unavoidable trend (that I almost guarantee exists) that teams with defensive minded HCs pass the ball less than their offensive counterparts.

Yeah, I don't think I'd ever convince you of anything and I don't care. But if I thought you were remotely open-minded on the subject, I'd go back and look at multiple years. I'll almost guarantee you that if you take the collective of head coaches in the NFL and put them simply in 2 camps (HCs with offensive backgrounds & HCs with defensive backgrounds) you'll find that the average of all pass attempts for all the teams with HCs with defensive backgrounds is consistently, if not ALWAYS, lower than the average of all pass attempts for all the teams with HCs with offensive backgrounds. You're too stubborn and reeling over Siemian being benched to listen to any reason right now, but on the off chance you are, it pretty much is that simple. Overall offensive minds come in as coaches wanting to rack up yards and score points on offense Defensive minds come in as coaches wanting to minimize points of the opposing offense while fielding a team that controls the clock and minimizes mistakes. See... simple

Defensive coaches bring a defensive approach to their teams, it's that simple. So far this year all the teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds are averaging 33 pass attempts per game. Teams with head coaches with defensive backgrounds are averaging 31 attempts per game. The top 3 teams in terms of pass attempts per game are teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds... none of which include the hoodie or Brady. We have a defensive head coach. We will pass less than if we had an offensive head coach.

WE NEED A FLAWLESS QB!!!! Yeah, that'd be wonderful. Not ever happening, though. You asked and pounded the table for some specific improvements from Taylor in the offseason. Looks like he's improving in those specific areas, but you don't spend time talking about those things you so desperately wanted to see, instead, well.... EEEEYOOOORRREEE

I thought you were incessantly banging the drum that he needs to be good late when we're behind like he was vs the Bucs? Or that he needs to be better on 3rd downs? He currently has the 6th best 3rd down conversion % in the NFL when passing. And that doesn't even account for the 3rd downs he's converted with his legs