BullBuchanan

4th is way too high for a guy that lost the backup job to Sam Darnold and who is on a relatively expensive deal for a player who flamed out so far. That said, I'd absolutely give up a 5/6/7 for him. Beane wastes a lot of those picks anyway and he does two things for the Bills. He gives us some possible upside in the event Allen were to go down. We know with 100% certainty that if Allen goes down this year, we aren't winning without him. While that's 99.9% true even if Lance is here, it's still a way better shot than with Kyle Allen or Barkley. The second reason is that is if we can turn him into a reclamation project, he could be worth an absolute haul in trade value. A QB that can play could be worth a 1st round pick+ and that could have a monster positive benefit for our team as cap gets tighter and premium picks go up in value. I would 100% bring him in based on that. He hasn't been there 3 seasons. He's been there 2. The first year he was a backup and didn't play. The next he was on IR nearly the entirety of the season. it's been well documented by NFL players that guys on IR are effectively treated like they aren't even on the team. Any study he would have been doing would have to have been independent most likely

Daryl Williams was considered a weakness? I remember him being quite decent.

very, very unlikely. Maintaining that level of peak performance for 15-20 years is so incredibly rare. We've seen some really great pass rushers since Bruce but they have a tendency to fall completely off a cliff in their early 30s(Mario Williams, Jared Allen, Strahan, Freeney, JJ Watt, Ware, etc ) It's uncanny how most of these guys went from double digit sacks to immediately dropping to low single digits at 30-31 and then were just completely washed. Based on their injury history, I expect the Bosas and TJ Watt to follow similar trajectories.

No. Both are true.

If they didn't take the running out of the gameplan, he probably would have held the ball even longer.

I think Edmunds sucked, but I never made the claim Dodson/Bernard/Spector were better. For all of his faults, at least Edmunds is an NFL talent. I can't say that of the latter group with certainty.

It's completely unacceptable the way it was handled. They would have been better off with one less guard and a real player at LB, instead of 6 backups. McDs ass is on the line to scheme around it.

The Bears and Commanders make the most sense to me. Rams could try to make a play too.

It's only a problem in that you won't realistically be able to field an offensive line that can effectively protect him unless you get extremely lucky. He'll have to protect himself.

Shakir is exactly what I want in a slot receiver and he has the ability to be so much more than that. He's shifty, strong, plays extremely hard and can and will lay out for crazy catches. He's got sky high potential. Whether or not he hits it will depend on his consistency. Based on his offseason training with Eric Moulds, it seems he's putting in the work, so now we're just waiting to see if he can put it together. He made some great grabs last year in very limited opportunities, and I'm expecting him to take a big jump this season. Not sure why anyone would be down on him at this point.

yea, the thing I'm concerned about is that his first instinct seems to be to go straight for the outside of the should pad, but I'll choose to believe it'll get sorted out if it ever leads to an issue. He looks comfortable enough in what he's doing that I don't think he needs it.

there's no doubt he did very well, but it seems he has a default tendency to grab to opponents pads. I wonder if that's going to be a problem.

In a thread about Isabella. The entire reason Gilliam was brought up here was because of the thought that his roster spot could be used to keep Isabella which isn't going to happen for the reasons above. Gilliam could face competition for his roster spot from other players, but it won't be from anything Isabella does in pre-season football.

He's not a gunner. There are a lot of jobs on special teams. Tackling is only part of the job. You're getting way too invested in a bottom of the depth chart fringe NFL talent that has washed out of two teams in desperate need for WR help. IF he were to even make the roster, he would likely be inactive for every single game of the season unless there were injuries. Do you get a commission if that happens? If not, I don't see how it benefits anyone but him. He brings nothing to the table that is special and can be replaced at will by any random player on the street. He's this year's Martin Nance except he's already proven that he sucks.

It was already mentioned but he gives you high level ST play and blocking TE depth. You'd have to carry multiple players that would waste roster spots and cost more overall than one of him.

Rashaan Evans is still a FA and I would far prefer him, jarrad Davis, or even Jon Bostic for just a veteran contract

I don't, because I wouldn't comp Kincaid to McBride. McBride is traditional mold TE with plus receiving ability. I comped Allen to Elway when he was drafted, and while they're definitely not the same player, they're far closer and more useful in comparison than say Allen to Peyton Manning. Allen's running ability is so extra that no comp is going to be terribly accurate. Int he pocket, it's less extreme. Doing comps isn't supposed to tell you what stats a guy will have, it's to tell you how a guy will be utilized and play and that will possibly indicate what stats they will have.

That's a really silly take, imo and probably not even true at the extremes. Using the argument that we can't judge a player's potential because every one is a unique snowflake would seem to indicate that there's no reason to even scout a player because after all, who knows what they'll be. Teams can just be liek Al Davis and draft a punter or a speed demon in the first round, because they might become the best player in NFL history. It without question means there's no reason for pundits/experts to ever discuss a player let alone shlubs like us on a message board. Comps exist because player archetypes exist. No two players might make the exact same plays or have the exact same career trajectory, but we don't deny that archetypes exist when discussing players and comps is just a natural extension of that. Sure they don't make up every facet of a person's physical and mental makeup, but that isn't the point. Close is usually good enough, because a lot of the time the player themself is not even the most meaningful contributor to their perceived ability and subsequent success. While I appreciate the line of thought you have with Cole Beasley, it's an entirely different situation. Cole Beasley could be on the field for 70% of offensive snaps because he's a receiver who's built like a receiver. Despite him having a reputation for not being very athletic, he was far faster than Kincaid is right now and offers a different skillset in terms of receiving ability. Take a look at KC. Travis Kelce plays slightly more from the slot but KC also has a primary slot receiver on the field a ton of the time. While Mecole Hardman was injured much of 2022, in 2021 he had 52% of offensive snaps to Kelce's 77%. The reason they are able to do this is because Kelce is simultaneously a TE and WR. Kelce's backup, Noah Grey, was on the field 51% of the time last season. To me, that's a realistic comp for Kincaid, because Knox will need to be on the field almost every time you need an inline TE, and he'll likely often be on the field when you need a TE as a pass catcher. Kincaid will likely be on the field mostly when you need a TE as a pass catcher, will play some when you just need inline blocking, but will likely cede pass catching looks when the scheme calls for a WR skillset (Shakir, Hardy) to be in the slot. If you figure that Diggs, Davis, and an RB will be on the field most of the time, that leaves 2 open spots. You have to figure Knox will be there at least half the time if not 75%, so that leaves Kincaid, Harty and Shakir to share a maximum of 1.5 openings, and probably less if you assume Knox plays more, there's some 2 rb sets, Maybe Sherfield steals some reps etc. Now, maybe Dorsey gets creative and uses Davis less and Kincaid gets some work on the outside. That would certainly get him on the field more, but we haven't seen that yet, so I'm not counting on it. Completely disagree on his scouting report. Him getting better at being explosive out of his breaks doesn't discount initial reports or the value of a scouting report. As for his run blocking, he's averaged a higher PFF score than Dawson Knox did last season, who was lauded for his improved blocking. That Kelce isn't asked to block much is more related to his value as KC's #1 pass catcher (#2 when they had Hill) than it is a knock on his blocking ability. Scouting report below. Hard to argue that Gronkowski was a poor comp, despite him being a better and more used blocker. NFL Comparison Rob Gronkowski Overview Kelce has been a tremendous run blocker throughout his career for the Bearcats, but really elevated his game as a receiver in his senior season. He isn't a tremendous athlete, but he does a lot of things very well. It's a deep tight end class, but Kelce's play suggests that he should be highly sought after. Strengths Kelce has an ideal tight end frame Athletic for his size, with great strength, and the ability to stretch the field vertically Very physical run blocker, generates power from the lower half, and will move defenders off the ball Plays with leverage Wide catching radius, can adjust and make the difficult catch Tough to bring down after the catch Light feet, and has lined up in numerous different positions Weaknesses Suspended for an entire season for violating team rules Only one season of production Doesn't have blazing speed Not a tremendously explosive athlete Doesn't come out of his breaks all that well

No, but you don't seem interested in having an intelligent discussion. If all he is is a "big slot receiver" then that will keep him off the field even more than if he was a hybrid TE and WR. You can't have a big slow WR in the slot 100% of your offensive snaps.

So your entire thesis is that a thing that has never happened before is definitely going to happen now. Makes sense and puts the rest of this thread in context. I don't play the lottery. I've repeatedly mentioned Kincaid's liabilities as a blocker as limit on his near term ability to get on the field. He's also smaller than you'd like to see in an elite TE and doesn't have elite level athleticism, though he is a very solid athlete. Take a guy like Mike Gesicki who is a far superior athelete with much better size who played in a pro style offense and wasn't a very good blocker coming out of college either. If you told me that was Kincaid's comp, ok I'm on board. ANy talk about Kelce should be immediately and thoroughly ridiculed though. The players couldn't be more different. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dalton-kincaid/32004b49-4e06-9130-e563-7edd228031c8 https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mike-gesicki/32004745-5349-0798-d83d-d46852aa6fbb

I never disagreed that his impact would be "significant". It's just that some folks here are applying an extreme definition of that word that i find to be incredibly unlikely, regardless of talent. To just say you think he's getting 80 catches next season base don nothing bunch a hunch is ######ed. I don't have any pre-draft feelings about Kincaid at all. By all accounts he was no worse than the 2nd best prospect this year, but absolutely no one had him as an elite level prospect like Pitts, Hockenson, Ebron. Now, you could very reasonably argue that being an elite prospect doesn't matter, because plenty often those guys don't turn out either. Only Hockenson from that list has really turned out so far and it's arguable he still hasn't reached draft status. If we're going to go down that road though, does any of the pre-draft talk about TE's matter? If you go down the list of dozens of TEs drafted over the last decade, you'll find that most of those early round TEs never turned into anything. Of the top 10 TEs in the league right now, only 2 (hockenson, pitts) were taken int he first round and they were both taken top 10. The rest of the group is largely 3rd round + picks (Kelce, Kittle, Goeddert, Andrews,Shultz, Waller, knox) If you wnat to include Njoku in the top 10 you can and he bumps their share to 3 and he was drafted similarly to Kincaid

Not the original Kim, but the new one was there.

Sure, and that chance is very, very close to zero. You're talking about the greatest TE of all time and another that's top 5. If teams could just casually draft the greatest TE of all time any year they wanted int he late first round, they'd all be doing it. Over the last 20 years, there have been 10-15 TEs that were truly special and then a bunch of guys who had some nice years and a list that goes on forever of guys who could have been.

You're casually projecting a rookie TE who was a late first round pick to become a top 10 player next year? Look, Kincaid could become the greatest TE of all time, but people are acting like it's a foregone conclusion based on absolutely nothing, and they've been doing it since the day he was drafted. No one has even seen him play, and his college tape doesn't show a generational player. He wasn't even the positional #1 from a lot of experts. I love the excitement, but I don't love the hype machine and unrealistic expectations for the kid. When Knox was drafted he had ridiculous RAS and that never materialized into a dynamic weapon. Kincaid had far higher production in college, but his measureables aren't elite like say Kyle Pitts.

I guess it depends what kind of numbers you're thinking when you say " a ton". Personally I'll be floored if he eclipses 50 catches without injuries to Diggs/Knox Fromm is on the Commanders