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And if the Bills paid him what the Patriots are paying him you'd say he's overpaid and Beane's an !@#$. No win situation.

You sure about that? He's a big fan of Milano. In almost each post-game column he's written this season that Ramon Humber needs to stay on the sidelines so Milano can get as many snaps as possible.

Gilmore dropped a pick last night. When he got up, he actually had a look on his face that said, "Dammit, my bad" instead of his usual "wait, we were in the wrong coverage, right? Surely this massive completion for 70 yards is *NOT* on me!" I liked Gilmore while he was here and he most definitely had stretches where his play was solid and consistent. But almost every time he got beat, he'd always pop up and be looking around like "We f'ed up somewhere, whatever I just did on that play is what I was supposed to do, sooo...."

I'mma assume your first sentence is sarcasm? White is set up to be a cornerstone of this defense for the next 10 years, don't think they have any interest in trading their first overall draft pick.

Good stuff all the way around, Hap. On one hand, I feel like JA has the resiliency and competitiveness to make it through this season with what he has right now. I'd hope that it just makes him more mentally (and probably physically) tougher and he gains valuable experience in doing what Dilfer says is needed: learning how to better play the game. It may take a while but at some point or another, those true franchise QBs have a drive, or a quarter, or a whole game where the switch flips on and they really "get it" and start playing the position up to their full potential. The flip side of this, unfortunately, is that some QBs never get the switch to flip on. I sincerely hope this doesn't happen with JA. I admit, my first reaction on draft night was, "They took the wrong Josh!" but I've warmed up to the kid. I like his attitude, I like that he has a lot of respect already from his teammates, I like hearing guys like Shady talk about the "swagger" he has because I believe a high level of confidence is paramount to the QB position. Another encouraging thing I heard right from JA himself this week was him stating how he doesn't have to be the hero on every play, or doesn't have to think that every play is going to be a big one. Against GB, as the game wore on, I saw him get more antsy and less comfortable in the pocket because he was dying to make a play. His INT in the end zone? He was hoping one of his guys could go up and get it. Even though it's a negative to throw a pick, at this stage of his development, I don't care how many picks he throws per game (well, I mean, keep it under 3, I would say) because it means he's not afraid to take chances. And we just watched a dude for three full seasons that really didn't take very many chances. So it's a breath of fresh air to have a QB that is not afraid to sling it. I believe that at his ceiling, Josh Allen can be Brett Favre. He can be that gunslinger-type that usually wows you with his throws and abilities but he also might bum you out from time to time with a real, "WTF?" play or a bad INT. So be it, though. No player is perfect. Sometimes you'd think that's what some Bills fans are expecting from not only their QB but the entire roster, coaching & front office staffs. Mistakes will be made. That's how we learn. Trial and error. 2018 is all about that, really. And if by season's end in 2020 things aren't where they should be, welp, try, try again! Because the sport isn't going anywhere and no matter how much this team might piss you off, neither are you. (Not you, Hapless, I mean the "general you.")

This is where I'm at. I can also sense the competitor in Allen, he wants to be out there regardless of the situation. And I agree, the situation isn't very fair to him right now but I also believe this season can be a huge trial by fire with the hope that he can make some progress. If he shows positive signs by the end of the year with this OL and these skill position players, then I think that bodes well for his future and the team's future once they upgrade several offensive positions.

I expected to see a tough season for a team with a lot of inexperience. I'll admit, at first it was hard to shake off the whole, "But they made the playoffs last season, surely they can compete again and at least hit 8-8, 7-9" because, at the time, I was seeing a lot of abysmal record predictions like 3-13 and whatnot and my first thought would be, "Nah, this team has more talent and a lot of competitive fire in them, they can eek out more than 3 wins." But as we rolled through training camp and pre-season, I started realizing that, yeah, those predictions might be true. So, I separated my fandom from the team for this season. I'm still tuning in and watching every game because I'm looking for progress in these inexperienced players that are set up to be the future of the franchise. But, I don't watch with a whole lot of emotion. There's no "edge of your seat" type nerves or anything. I'm fine with them losing a bunch this season. I'm pretty sure that was actually part of the plan this year. I mean, honestly, for pretty much the entire 2000s, this franchise has tried putting band-aids and filling spots with this guy or that guy with a "we can win now!" attitude. Seemed like none of the regimes they hired (until now) could see the forest for the trees and realize that the team needed a full-on overhaul. Obviously, I'd like them to be a bit more entertaining that what we saw last Sunday. That was one of the roughest offensive outings I've seen in recent memory. I know Allen is a project and needs time, but holy crap on a stick, I don't know what the hell Juan Castillo is teaching this OL. I mean, they aren't the most talented group but they are NFL players and it's true, I have seen all five of those guys win at least a dozen one-on-one match-ups this season. It's the constant free rushers that baffle me. Gotta be able to adjust on the fly. Isn't that what Daboll's scheme is all about? He wants to be "multiple" and be able to change it up from week to week based on the opponent. Maybe they've been trying to do that but honestly, I think they just need to get back to basics right now. Simplify things for Allen, get Shady and the run game going (Chris Ivory has been a nice surprise, always thought he was a solid back but if you buy into 75% of the posters on this board you'd be led to believe that he is AN ABSOLUTE EMBARRASSMENT TO THE BUFFALO BILLS BECAUSE OF HIS STUPID 2.9 YPC IN JACKSONVILLE!") because he and Ivory are actually a pretty nice little 1-2 punch, and then try the ol' play action. How's about just not abandoning Shady after 5 carries and calling constant passes against a unique/exotic-look defense with an inexperienced rookie QB? Try the KISS method - Keep It Simple, Stupid. Defensively, I feel like they are on the right track. Defense is responsible for carrying Carolina into being a steady contender over the last few years and it's pretty clear that getting the defense to do the same is the goal here in Buffalo. I think they've built the defense the right way. They have a mix of long time vets, then a mix of "prime years" players who have 4-7 years of experience but are still under 30 (Hyde, Poyer, Murphy, Lotulelei, etc.). After that, I feel like they have a very good core of young players. Tre' White, Tremaine Edmunds, Harrison Phillips, Matt Milano, Shaq Lawson (I'm fully aware his draft status has not matched his play but they may be onto something with this DT/DE role they have him in, I'm willing to give him a bit more time), etc. I wonder if Ryan Lewis might turn out to be a decent corner opposite Tre' and I keep seeing progress in Taron Johnson week to week. In fact, you could say that he was one of the top performers against GB last week. Very good awareness/instincts, and a sure tackler. Also, not afraid to throw himself around. By season's end, I'd just like to see them trending upwards. Maybe finish with a couple victories. We know the path to success isn't linear, it's gonna swing up and down a lot, but by the final quarter of the season (last four games, not final game quarter) I hope I see these guys playing with confidence and cohesion. And obviously, stay healthy.

Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe losing E. Wood was the biggest blow to this OL but I see way more Richie threads than Wood threads. I know Wood was forced to retire due to injury but let's face it, Richie probably doesn't do as well without Wood here. I'm pretty sure Wood was influential in keeping Richie on track during his time in Buffalo. And, if Wood would've been able to continue playing, I'm sure this front office would've been more interested in keeping him around than Richie, he's more valuable. Just a shame injuries forced him out.

Oh boo hoo hoo. The dude made his choices. He didn't have to sign off on that pay-cut, but he did, then two weeks later he got a wild hair up his ass and fired his agents and decided he didn't want the pay cut so he asked for his release and was granted it.

Treadwell hasn't seen the field because he's struggled with drops since entering the league.

I definitely agree with this. Sometimes during games I'll get sucked into the Twitter-verse and see a lot of live tweeting, and over the last few seasons, one of the most common things I've seen mentioned by former players (and at times, those players' wives) would be that they'd look at the sideline and see no sense of brotherhood or unity with the Bills. And these former players were guys like Talley, Bennett, Kelly, Thomas, etc. They all have said at one point or another, one of the reasons they were so successful in the 90s was because, despite the egos, those guys really had a strong sense of family and unity. They all wanted to ball out for each other, not just for themselves. That's what McDermott is trying to build here. And we've seen already that it works. Last years team wasn't the most talented but they really enjoyed playing for each other. Just seeing that sideline erupt for Taiwan Jones, a career special teams and back up guy, playing in a regular season game against an NFC opponent in Week 5 was just awesome. These guys genuinely wanna see each other do well. And those are the kinds of players they'll continue to bring in here because, in their opinion, that's what's going to get them over the hump. Now, the one concern I've had since the jump with this regime is I would hope that they don't pass up on an extremely talented player because of character concerns. I'm sure they have a threshold for what they're comfortable with, what kinda baggage they'll allow players to bring with them, but I get the sense that their threshold for that is pretty low. On the flip-side of this, if they have a strong locker room with dependable leaders, then they should feel more comfortable bringing in a guy who may have some character issues because they can lean on those players in leadership roles to take a young guy under their wing and really show him how to be a professional. So, yeah, I sincerely hope they don't talk themselves out of taking a really talented guy (if they have the chance at one) because they're afraid his baggage will mess with the locker room vibe. Have faith in your guys and your culture and if, after a season or two, the guy in question hasn't turned it around, they can trade him elsewhere. They have no problem doing that (see: Watkins/Darby/Dareus). But yeah, I like where you're coming from here Phillo, good assessment.

The point of the purge has a lot to do with the salary cap mess they inherited. They wanted to unload bad contracts (Dareus, Glenn, etc.) and open up space, number one. Number two, they want a foundation of drafted players that are playing on very manageable rookie deals. In between that, they mix it up with free agents that they think they're paying fair value for. To your comment on the former players that came through Buffalo: Bradham was offered an extension but wanted to test free agency, he also wasn't a fit for Rex's 3-4. Also can't blame a guy for going to a team that offered him the most money. We've all seen the Earl Thomas thing by now, these guys have every right to get paid when the opportunity comes up. Darby was the opposite, he's a fit for what Rex likes to do but not what McDermott wants to do. I also think they had some character concerns on him. Ragland also doesn't fit McDermott's scheme. The moment they drafted Dawkins, the writing was on the wall for Glenn. I've always liked Glenn, think he's a solid player but the deal they gave him was a bit much for his services. Beane wanted to get rid of that contract and things just kinda lined up for them when Glenn had injuries last season and Dawkins played pretty well in his place. They saw that and knew then that their draft pick on a very affordable rookie contract was ready to take over and then they go and get themselves up to slot #12 by trading Glenn which helped them move up for who they think is their franchise QB. Goodwin and Woods were offered deals but both wanted to test free agency. They were also here when this team was all about the run. When you're a wide receiver, you want the ball. Robert Woods is a solid player who was definitely frustrated while he was here but he still did his job very well. He received an offer to play for a team in his own backyard that loves throwing it, can't blame him there. Goodwin was offered more money in San Francisco, and up until his departure, there weren't really any Bills fans who thought that guy was special. He has rounded out into a good receiver in San Fran but while he was here he was often injured and struggled with drops. Dareus... giant contract that was not worth what he was providing. And again, character is a big thing here and we are all well aware of the off-field troubles Dareus has had. Even Kyle Williams himself said it, sometimes there's only so much you can do for someone before you have to give them a chance to start fresh somewhere else. Dareus has had two solid seasons in his seven year career but probably could've had several more than that if he was motivated enough to really tap into his potential, but he never appeared to be interested in doing that while he was here. And then they got outbid by the Pats for Hogan after giving him an offer sheet. And if you can catch the ball, you can pretty much count on Tom Brady making you look pretty good. I'm not directing this next comment at you, but some people seem to think that the Bills just cut or traded or dumped these guys for no reason or that they never considered keeping them around. They do their due diligence and make their evaluations and some guys get offers, some don't. It's business. TL:DR - In short, you can pretty much look at the cap mess they were stuck with to understand why they've purged the roster. But also, they (McBeane) knew it was time to hit the "full-on reset" button, as did the Pegulas. This is what happens when that button gets pressed. It's all business.

There are way more true starters that aren't even 30 yet that are on this team. Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer are both 27, Taron Johnson (who has looked better each week) and Tre' White are 22, Tremaine Edmunds is only friggin' 20 and he's already the QB of the defense, Trent Murphy is 27, Star Lotulelei is 29, Matt Milano is 24, etc. Josh Allen is 22, Dion Dawkins is 24, Zay Jones is 23, etc. It's a youth movement right now. I don't have a lot of issues with how they're building right now. They have a handful of longtime vets with 8-10+ years of experience (Kyle, Lorenzo, Hughes, etc.) and then they have veterans still in their prime years (under 30) with 4-8 years of experience followed up by the rookies and second/third/fourth year players. Building a roster is more than just finding the right players. This regime wants to find the right players for the right money for the right amount of time. Right now, it's obvious they want to build a core of young players that they hope will pan out and be affordable because they'll still be on their rookie deals. And whoever has performed well will likely be offered extensions (right meow I can see Tre' White definitely getting the 5th year option, Edmunds as well, feel really good about those two being cornerstones on that defense for the next 10 seasons provided they can stay healthy). It might be a dismal season but they're doing this thing the right way. The results aren't what they want yet but they've still yet to dig in and really overhaul the offense. I think that's coming up this off-season, though. If they end up with a top 5 pick, they can trade down and collect more picks which in turn gives them more ability to move around in the draft and go after who they want. And hopefully they'll get some solid veteran FAs in here as well.

I would just like to see some cohesion on offense. I know this OL hasn't played together for very long but at some point they gotta get things down well enough so they aren't allowing a rusher to hit Allen .04 seconds after the snap. Establish the run, take some shots with the play action. And obviously, hope the defense can create turnovers and short fields. Same formula that beat Minnesota, likely the only formula they can use to compete right meow.

Yep. And if I'm too old and crippled, at least just get my wheelchair riding ass up on a ledge and lemme take care of the rest.

Ladies and gentlemen, esteemed individuals of this fine establishment known as Two Bills Drive... I would like to report that I have indeed been fired over Mahomes. It's been a great run but all mediocre things must come to an end and today is that day. If anyone needs me, I'll be crying into my Josh Allen Kool-Aid cup.

I better see the most enthusiastic f*ckin' jazz hands in history this Sunday, then.

Love this. Great instincts and reaction here. Reads the play, takes the correct first step and makes the tackle. Good stuff.

I reckon every time the kid throws for at least 12 yards we'll see these, "WE MISSED OUT" threads and "EVERYONE MUST BE FIRED BECAUSE THAT IS HOW WE MAKE PROGRESS!!!" It's being said all over, Mahomes has a great situation. He has time to throw, a plethora of guys to throw it to and the ability to make stuff happen when the play breaks down. Oh, he's also athletic and has a big arm. I think there's another guy like this in the league, big, athletic, rocket arm...except he doesn't have a decent OL or the same weapons right meow. He also didn't get a year to sit behind a really solid vet. Something occurred to me while watching that game last night. I'm not a real big fan of David Culley but I'm pretty sure he's here because he's a Reid disciple. I wonder if Reid himself gave McD the suggestion to hire Culley to coach QBs. I'm all in on "the process" but that doesn't mean you can't throw some criticism its way. And one criticism I've had is their idea to roll without a veteran backup QB. A dude who's been around the league and seen a lot, a guy who can really help JA in the QB room and all that. I know a lot of people criticize them trading McCarron but I don't believe they intended on doing that. I just think they were shocked the Raiders said, "Yo, a 5th for McCarron?" because they probably had his trade value listed as, "Lucky if we'll get a pack of Twizzlers" given McCarron's pre-season performance and injury. So I think that was an unexpected trade and they jumped on it, expecting Peterman to be able to hold down the fort until JA was ready or whatever. But then Peterman goes out there and is just friggin' awful, left 'em no choice but to roll with the rookie.

It'd be odd for KC to want him considering he's a 4-3 DE. Played out of position a lot in Rex's 3-4 and didn't do well. And yeah, as others have mentioned, Lotulelei isn't here to rack up big numbers. And Lawson, if he can show he's comfortable switching between DT and DE on certain downs then he'll have value as a versatile player they can move around on the DL.

There's been what, 3 games so far this season that have already ended in ties? Those ties have sparked the conversation that the NFL needs to look at their OT rules again and eliminate ties. And then a coach goes for the win instead of the tie and it's "the worst decision in the history of ever!! Aw gawd, I write sports in the internet and my freaking eyeballs are bleeding from the insanity that was this decision! Who doesn't go for the tie?!? Blllaaarrrggghhh!!" Seriously, peeps. Ignore the talking heads and the writers and pundits and bloggers and analysts and "experts" and all that BS. They are paid to share their opinions (often ****ty ones) and create debate. The schmuck that wrote this has succeeded in doing just that and he's making himself look like a moron in order to do it. No one wants ties. So what does this miraculous bag of rancid assh*les do? Writes the exact opposite and tada, it's click city. I hope this guy stubs his toe in the middle of the night on the way to the bathroom, trips, falls and wets his favorite Patriots jammy jam pants.

Well, not everyone can have a Tim Brody and a Bob Bulisticks.

First off, if you're a fan that thinks or expects this team to contend this season (or next), you're gonna put yourself through some misery. If you think this is the "same old Bills" you're wrong. If you think there's no solid, long term plan in effect right now, you're also wrong. Defense is McDermott's bread and butter so it makes sense to build the defense first and then work on the offense. The defense has some great veteran leadership (Kyle and Lorax) as well as a tier of players with 4-6 years under their belts yet still under 30 years old, combined with a bunch of youngins in their first or second year. That's how you do a rebuild. Hang on to some decent longtime vets, sign some moderately experienced vets, and then fill out your high priority spots with draft picks. Not everything can be addressed in one season which is why the offense is lagging. They have who they think is their QB and left tackle. They have a kid who may blossom into a solid receiver once the team finds its offensive identify. Again, as with the D, there are some longtime vets hanging around providing leadership. I don't think they've dug in much with the offense just yet as they don't have the same type of younger vets like the defense does but I think they'll go after some guys like that this off-season. But as for yesterday's game, there are gonna be total duds like this during this project. Allen has to go through the lowest lows as well as the highs as he gains experience. All of this season is about experience and growth of the young foundation. Win big together and lose big together, they'll find out a lot about one another and what it's gonna take from each one of them to become a team of brothers that plays for each other. There's a plan. It's in action. It just takes time. I'm all in. Can't wait to see where this team is at come 2020.

He's not done. He maybe has lost half a step. I think he can still be productive... somewhere else. I don't doubt for a second that they've already discussed the possibility of trading him. Just because of his contract and age. This entire rebuild is a huge youth movement. Guys like Kyle and Lorax are here to guide these young guns on how to be consummate professionals. They're probably retiring next year. Guys like McCoy, he still wants to play but I doubt he's down for a rebuild that's gonna take at least two seasons, knowing he only has a couple years left. They may deal him to a contender before the deadline, give him a chance to make a run for it. Same with Clay. Maybe Hughes as well but I think McDermott really likes Hughes for his intensity and how he practices. Young players can learn a lot by watching him. And his contract isn't terrible. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate these guys and like them as players but these things happen when a team tears it down and starts over. Some of these guys are here for specific reasons, veteran leadership being the biggest thing. Despite this being a full rebuild, you need solid vets in your locker room to show these kids how to play in the NFL. People wanna call out Trent Murphy and Star Lotulelei as "overpaid unproductive losers" because they aren't racking up 12 sacks and 37 tackles for loss per game. Some of that extra money in their contract is basically an apology from the franchise. I'm certain these guys were told, "Hey look, we're tearing this thing down, of course we're gonna compete and work to win but with projects like this, it's difficult to expect wins. But we know what kinda player and leader you are and if you wanna keep looking over your options, please do, but we think we're offering a fair deal for your services." That's why those guys signed here. Most anywhere else, they're looking at less money to do the same job (without being leaned on for the leadership aspect so much). So they sign here knowing they're coming to a team that's a few seasons away from competing but they're being compensated financially for that with the hope that by the time this team is ready to contend, these guys will still have another season or two at a decent age to try and help get the team over the hump. That's been the issue with Whaley and past GMs here. They all thought they could win now with what they had and just needed a few more players to "get 'em over the hump" but they never built from the ground up. Never thought they had to. And in 2014 they came close with a roster, in hindsight now, that was pretty good. But then you have a coach who quits and you replace him with Clownshoes Rex for two years until finally your owners go, "OK, what the fruck is going on, we gotta hit the restart button here." And the youth movement begins. Youngish, first time HC and GM, guys who came up together, understand each other (unlike Whaley and any of his HCs). There's symmetry there that hasn't been at OBD in a long time. So, it seems most fans are understanding that 2018 (and likely 2019) are gonna be not so fun to watch, but for those who aren't seeing the bigger picture, just keep in mind that they're willing to deal with two painful seasons in order to become contenders that can sustain that success on a consistent basis. I'll take that all day long. Gimme two years of absolute suckage if it results in 10 years of making the playoffs (or at least finishing with a winning record) and being taken seriously. That's much better than a 17-year playoff drought that swung back and forth between "we're gonna rebuild but we don't know how" and "we're almost there, we swear!"