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Tough for me to put a label on this at this stage of his career. I think he's had two solid games in a row and he's flashed some big time ability. I'm with some other folks who have said they're cautiously optimistic. He makes enough plays to at least make you start thinking what the future could be if he continues to improve. But you never wanna get ahead of yourself because we've been fooled before. I truly hope he reaches his ceiling and wins the MVP some year, that'd be the most amazing way to shut up all of his doubters. Other than that, I gotta say that when I watch the dude play I definitely get the feeling that he has that "it" factor. That innate quality that you can't really teach, you know? That whole "ya either got it or you don't" type of thing. Of course he still has a long way to go but for me, I think he's made more good plays than bad (especially over the last two weeks) and I just get this sense about him that he's gonna be special. I really like the way he approaches the game. He doesn't get wrapped up in the outside talk, he doesn't look intimidated out there, he's not afraid of any throw so there's no limit on the types of route concepts Daboll can install, he has a swagger and a presence that this team hasn't had in ages. It's refreshing. McBeane drafted this kid because they see a lot of Cam Newton in him and they know how to win with a QB in that mold. If he puts it all together and if this front office can surround him with a solid offense, sky's the limit.

I'm pretty sure Lorenzo and Kyle have jobs here for as long as they want. If either guy wants to keep playing, all they gotta do is say the word and I'm sure McBeane would draw up a new contract.

I tend to think that OL might be something they look to fix in free agency rather than the draft. I understand they wanna build thru the draft as much as possible but OL is a position with a steep learning curve from college to the pros. All these guys play in offenses where they rarely line up with their hand in the dirt. Even the highest rated OL prospects are gonna need some substantial time to acclimate to the game at the NFL level. If they go thru free agency then they get a guy who already has NFL experience and would only need to adapt to the blocking schemes that the Bills use. But of course I'm not opposed to them going OL at some point in the draft. This kid has the ideal McBeane qualities, senior (actually a grad student), has plenty of experience, seems to be high character. Yeah, I'm sure he'll be on their board somewhere.

C.Biscuit made a comment about Smith and then Foster, your response to him has nothing to do with his comment, so what the hell was the purpose of it? Furthermore, why did your comment need to be in extra large font?

This take is bad, and you should feel bad.

Could very well be the OL coaching. I'm not a big fan of Castillo. I understand McDermott has a working history with him as they were both on staff under Reid down in Philly for a number of years but I don't think the guy has done a very good job. I mentioned in a thread yesterday about Crossman and the special teams woes this season but said I wouldn't be surprised if Crossman stays on given two things: one, he's working with an inexperienced group, and two, McDermott likes consistency (I also think he knows when to cut bait and make a change but again, wouldn't surprise me if Crossman stays on). By the same token, wouldn't surprise me if Castillo remains for the same reasons. Young group he's working with, they've also tinkered with the lineup countless times, dealt with injuries, etc. etc. Either way, they need to go out and find a center this season. Start there and then see about right guard. I think the left side is gonna be find with Dawkins and Teller. Right guard is a ? and I actually think Jordan Mills hasn't been too bad at right tackle this year. We shall see what happens.

I'm still surprised that Groy couldn't step up and take over the C spot. He played well enough in place of Wood that the Bills matched an offer sheet that off-season to keep him from signing with the Rams. And then he gets his shot to win the starting job this past summer and was just abysmal. Don't know if it's the change in blocking schemes or what but he just isn't cutting it. Makes sense why they really tried to sneak Adam Redmond onto the practice squad.

Yowza. Christmas came early. KB just seems to be in his own head too much at this point. He's fighting himself before he even gets on the field. I hope for his sake he can turn it around somewhere else but clearly the guy is just not playing up to his potential. Holmes is JAG but I figured they really valued him on special teams. Maybe they reviewed the tape from Sunday and found that the debacle on special teams was partially on Holmes, but who knows. So who's that leave at receiver now? Zay, Foster, McKenzie, McCloud... oh, Thompson now as well, I'd imagine he gets a lot more snaps now with KB gone and that's good because Thompson somehow has always found a way to make a play when needed... and looking at the roster, that's it for the WR group, only five right now. Wouldn't surprise me if they weren't done with transactions just yet, maybe they bring in another receiver. But, teams also roll with five wideouts sometimes so I could see them standing pat for the last month of this season. Glad they decided to cut ties now. Can't have your young guys adopting poor work habits of other players who checked out weeks ago.

I'm down. I think at his ceiling this kid can be a Brett Favre type of player, aside from the running skills he has, he reminds me of Favre in terms of his willingness to sling it to any spot on the field. And like Favre, every now and then you might see him make a play that leaves you saying, "What the hell was that?!" but if the good outweighs the bad by a sizeable margin, I'm all for it. I also find it interesting that Jimbo's wife Jill has tweeted out several times now how much Allen reminds her of how Jim played the game. First, both guys have the size. Jim was built like a linebacker (and that's where Penn State, his top school choice wanted him to play, as well as a number of other schools that recruited him) and although he didn't run much, when he did, he wasn't afraid to drop his shoulder from time to time. Allen was smart to avoid unnecessary contact during Sunday's game but you know if the game is on the line, he's gonna do what he needs to do to pick up a first down or whatever. Both guys have rocket arms. Josh probably has the stronger arm but Jim was no slouch. Both of them can make every throw. The one spot where Josh will need a few years to get on Jim's level is command of the offense. I mean, Jim was like an extra offensive coordinator out there. When they rolled with the K-Gun, every playcall was made by Jim. Right now, you can see Allen is running the plays as called and has maybe called an audible a handful of times this season. Hopefully with more experience he'll get better at recognizing different defensive looks and will know which plays to switch into to beat those looks. Jim was off the charts with this so, like I said, I think it'll be a while before Josh has that kind of command. Both guys are hyper-competitive and have the respect of their teammates. Even as a young guy, Josh carries a kind of swagger I haven't seen at the QB position in Buffalo since Jim. Jim was confident but anyone that's read his book knows that the guy was a nervous wreck before almost every game. Allen is kind of the opposite in that respect. The game isn't too big for him no matter if it's pre-season or a regular season game with playoff implications. And based on what we've heard from his teammates, the kid just doesn't seem to get nervous or phased by too much. Lastly, you always knew the Bills had a chance as long as the defense could get the ball for Jim for one last drive. Allen's college coaches and teammates have all said that they always felt like their team had a shot at the win as long as Allen was in there. To have that kind of quality back in Buffalo is huge. I mean, I've got a lot of respect for Tyrod Taylor, I like him as a player and he's all class as a person. But... what was the guys record here when the team was down by 7 or more points? Something like 2 wins and a whole bunch of losses. Nothing against him but if the Bills were down late, I really didn't have much confidence that Tyrod was gonna find a way to win. This past Sunday, with 2:30 on the clock, Allen and the offense get the ball back on their own 10 yard line and my first thought was, "Watch this kid go ham and pull out the win." And he almost did, if it wasn't for that meddling Charles Clay! For the record, Allen's 4th quarter stats were something like 9 of 13 for 120 yards and a touchdown. To start that final drive, he hit four or five straight completions before the OL started caving in. But even with that adversity, and a wild final play, he still put his team in place to pull out the win. To have that ability to evade pressure the way he did, keep his eyes up and scanning for an open guy, running to his left he uncorks a 40 yard throw to his right and if Twinkle Toes Clay hadn't tripped over his own two feet, he probably would've caught it and it would've been a major early highlight for Josh's career. I gotta imagine the kid is playing with a high level of confidence right now and I can't wait for these next four games and am especially psyched to see what McBeane does to improve things for 2019.

It's been a flukey year for special teams. The punter issues are uncommon, given the fact that they've kept Cory Carter on IR and didn't outright release him tells me they were prepared to give him the starting job over Schmidt, but he got injured. Then they sign Bojo...Booo... that kid that wears #9, he gets hurt, Schmidt comes back, can't get any hangtime on his punts and now this Matt Darr fella is in there. I think he did a pretty solid job on Sunday, though. The one thing to remember in all of this is how young this team is... so, as they move forward with the young guys, they realize they're probably gonna have to eat some bad penalties here and there just because of inexperience. Most special teams units in the league consist of backups or first/second year players trying to carve out a spot on the team. However, inexperience or not, the fumbled punt from Sunday is something that really shouldn't ever happen. The returner knows its his job to alert his teammates if he's choosing not to catch the punt. And players hear that key word and know they need to get away from the ball. I don't know if McKenzie didn't shout the key word or if he did and guys didn't hear it or just had no awareness of where the ball was but that type of stuff is so avoidable and it's the type of play that'll give a coach an instant ulcer. I'm as surprised as anyone that Danny Crossman is with his THIRD different coaching staff here. He was hired by Marrone and held over with Rex and now McDermott. I assume all three of those guys view Crossman as a quality coach. And with the inexperienced players on special teams as well as the injuries to the punters, I can honestly see Crossman returning again next season in a "stay the course" type of thing. McDermott understands when certain positions need an outright upgrade but he also understands consistency with coaches. Not real sure which way he'll lean with Crossman but my gut tells me that he stays with the caveat that McDermott needs to see marked improvement in 2019, and hopefully no more mistakes in 2018.

People need to start realizing that the players they bring in here aren't being brought in solely for their on-field work. McBeane are looking for the same kinds of players in free agency as they are in the draft: hard working, team-first guys, and Murphy embodies that. They'll take a chance on a player with top-end athletic talent and an average (or below average) work ethic (i.e. Corey Coleman) in the hopes that perhaps that player will see how hard other guys are working and adopt that ethic for themselves. Of course, it doesn't always work out (again, Corey Coleman) but I like that they aren't completely talking themselves out of taking a shot on players with tons of athleticism but maybe not the greatest work ethic. Because if you have a strong locker room full of hard working guys, that should rub off on guys who come in here who don't work as hard. But yeah, it's not all about numbers and whatnot. I think Murphy is a decent player and you can never have enough solid pass rushers. The guy is insanely motivated and driven to reach the success he had in 2016 and hopefully he'll get there. If not, well, they still have a player that has a handful of sacks and a couple of forced fumbles this season so it's not like they're paying him for zero production. Staying healthy is obviously the key for him.

Just progress in general. I'd like to see the OL solidify itself a little more, but that's probably not going to happen considering they lost Bodine and replaced Miller with Sirles. You know who's actually had a decent season on that OL? Jordan Mills. Rarely hear his name during games this season, don't think he's been penalized much, if at all, and he's really held it down on that side. Would not be opposed to extending the guy. I understand a lot of people don't think he's good enough but he's done well this year and he's a veteran presence which is still needed despite the full-on youth movement they have going on. Of course I'd like to see Allen continue to trend upwards. Since returning from the injury he looks much more relaxed back there. I'd like to see him hit some passes he's missed on this season. I think overall he's gonna be alright but obviously we gotta temper our expectations at this point. Would love to see some more big plays from the defense. What's exciting about this group is that a handful of guys are still on rookie deals, with another handful of prime-age players (like Hyde and Poyer) are on 4-year deals with the only two big time defenders (Kyle and Lorenzo) having their contracts up at the end of this season. I stated in a previous thread, I wouldn't be surprised to see both of those guys sign on for another year just to see where 2019 takes them.

Anytime one of these knuckleheads spews a crap take like this, just remember, this is what they're paid to do. And if he got you talking about it, then it's job well done for him. Honestly, I really feel that half the junk the talking heads spit out, they don't even really believe it. It's all said to get a reaction, get people talking.

Yeah, the throw to Foster was one of those, "D'AWWW maaaannnn!" kinda plays. On the misfire to Zay, I think James Lofton did a decent job of explaining why the pass ended up behind Zay. Lofton said that Allen may have been expecting Zay to stop and sit right in that spot since the 'Phins were in a zone look, but, again as Lofton said, Zay probably saw nothing but space in front of him and may have thought he had a defender trailing him so he kept trucking right through the zone. It happens. And you can't ask for much better on the throw to Clay, not in that situation anyway. JA evades pressure from both sides, ends up way back by the 50 yard line but comes back up another 5-10 yards and launches one 50 yards downfield to his right as he's running to his left. Clay just dropped it. I remember a game against Houston in, I believe in 2015 where Taylor hit Clay wide open down the seam for a TD and in the post-game, Clay said the wide open catches are harder for him for some reason. I think the mind plays into it, like, "Holy crap, I'm wide open, here comes the ball, don't drop it, don't drop it, don't drop it!" *plop* "SON OF A!" I don't know if he slipped, tripped or what but him coming back to the ball looked awkward as hell. The throw got there and hit him in an area where he could've made the catch and that's all that matters. Coulda been the hero of the day but them's the breaks sometimes. Either way, with each game I keep seeing more progress from JA. He's been able to shake off the slow starts and get rolling. He also looks a lot more patient and willing to hang in the pocket for as long as he can. And his game speed is outrageous, it doesn't look like he's going that fast but then you see him beat linebackers to the sticks routinely, it's crazy. Not just your standard LBs, either, guys like Kiko and Anthony Barr up in Minnesota are known as athletes for that position, sideline to sideline types and he's clowned both of them.

Fantastic throw. Drops back, hangs in the pocket, goes through his reads, sets his feet, doesn't let the pressure affect him, zips it 28 yards straight to him on a rope, walk-in TD. Can't ask for better, really. Cannot wait to see this kid with better OL play and more offensive playmakers.

If Chris Ivory was lights out every time he carried the ball in place of Shady, I'd say yeah, he's probably lost a step and might not be a full-time player anymore. However, Ivory didn't have any room out there either. Again, they've tinkered with the OL, Teller is only on his third game, they have Sirles in at right guard and then they had Bodine go down yesterday and had to put Groy in there. It's a miracle Allen wasn't plastered into the turf yesterday. The pass blocking actually wasn't too shabby. But the run blocking, as it has been all season aside from the Jets game, was pure poop.

McDermott, no question. Guy is constantly looking to evolve and get better. He isn't stuck in his ways like McCarthy who has refused to evolve or adapt, he's just simply leaned on Rodgers to bail them out time and again and it finally caught up to him. And at this point, with this fan-base, I'm certain McDermott could bring home 17 straight titles and there would still be people saying, "Meehh... I have concerns....he won, but, like, he should've done this and that" blah blah blah.

Good for Hughes. If what he's saying is true then I'd be getting in that ref's face as well. Poor officiating is killing the game. As someone else pointed out, it's now just second nature to look for a flag on any given play, especially a big play. That's not how the game should be. I've felt for a long time that the league wants the refs more involved to create "more drama" within each game. This is an entertainment industry first, don't forget that. The league doesn't give a crap about player safety, the league wants 100+ combined points a game with high flying offenses because it's "entertaining." I can't wait until KC faces a legitimate defense in the playoffs and bows out with a big fat one and done, because while they can score points, they also can't stop any opponents from scoring. Gave up, what, 30 or 33 points to the friggin' Raiders yesterday?? These offenses are fun to watch but at the end of the day, defense gets it done and the Chiefs have zero defense. But the rules are completely lopsided to favor the offense and, supposedly, protect the QB. I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that bad calls or no calls when there should've been a call happen every game, but that's usually only one or two things. Yesterday, I thought there were three or four clear instances of roughing the passer on Allen. I've seen way less get called this season, which is why it's kind of maddening. I hate seeing their dumb referee faces in their dumb referee uniforms with their stupid little yellow flags. I feel like all referees are just little doofuses that wanted to play football but could never cut it so they figured they'd be the jagoff to ruin the game. You ever play backyard football with your neighborhood buddies? There was always a friend with a younger brother who, well, just kinda sucked. He was whiny and bratty but all the moms told all their kids, "You gotta let Johnny's little brother Timmy play too." So you'd tolerate the little jerk because it was better than getting yelled at by mom or dad. But little Timmy slowly kept making himself a bigger part of the game until he became the kid that would steal the ball and run home whenever a play didn't go his way. That's modern NFL officiating. All a bunch of little Timmy's that wanna take the ball and go home. I frickin' hate it. It's nearly unbearable to watch a game these days. Every third play, flag. "Number 62 farted in my general direction, he has been ejected not only from the game, but from the entire league. I AM REF GOD!" BAH! The entire frickin' rule book needs to be shredded and rewritten.

It was 4th and 11 and if Clay catches that ball even outside the end zone, he could've rolled over the goal-line without being touched, there was no one near him. Dude just tripped over his own feet and lost track of the ball.

Not the best throw but I don't think you can expect pinpoint accuracy after the kid just ran away from two pass rushers and then unloaded the ball to his right as he was running to his left. Sure, woulda been nice if the ball just floated right to Clay and hit him in the numbers right where he stood but either way, the ball hit him in the hands and he dropped it. Gotta catch that. Clay would tell you it's on him.

He's making more plays than he's missing on, which is progress. And yeah, the scouting reports and "concerns" written about this kid were really overstated. Read any report on him and you'd think every other pass of his ends up a mile outside the stadium. Does he miss here and there? Yeah... but he's also made a bunch of throws this season alone that I haven't seen from any Bills QB since Bledsoe. He's getting it done with a less than stellar supporting cast, too. It makes you encouraged for the future once they get some legitimate weapons in place. Kid was the entire offense yesterday and he's changing things with this franchise. If the team was down in the past, the fan-base would be like, "Bah, forget it, they're done, 4th quarter comebacks don't happen for the Bills." But now, you can tell that the team rallies around this kid and knows that if he gets a chance to go out and win it in the final few minutes, there's real belief there that he's going to come out with the win. That was something I found encouraging during the run up to the draft. Coaches and teammates both consistently said that they always felt like there was a chance when Allen was on the field. And he almost came away with the improbable victory yesterday, if only Charles Clay hadn't tripped over his own twinkle toes, dropped the ball and then faceplanted on the goal-line.

I gave up fantasy football a long time ago because by week five or six I'd always forget to set my lineups and it became more of a chore than fun... Anyways, don't they still have Charcandrick West? Thought I saw him get some carries in the Rams game the other week. Not sure if he's RB2 or RB3 tho. Oh, and this behavior from Hunt is disgusting. Kid should sit out the rest of the year for it.

Yeah, his ceiling is nuts. And instincts/recognition are something he still needs to develop. He's so athletic that he's just always leaned on his physical gifts to make up for any lapses on the mental side of the game. He's definitely coachable so I assume they've been working with him a lot on his diagnosis/recognition skills this season. Kid has tons of potential. His size and speed alone has caused some QBs this season to not even bother looking to throw in a lane that's anywhere near him because of his reach. Combine that with Tre' who has been shutting receivers down all year and the only spot left to look for a QB is one side of the field. That's not too shabby.

If you look at how their draft classes are contributing so far, by that metric, they've drafted very well. 2018 1. (7) Josh Allen - starting, shows flashes of awesome mixed with flashes of "good lord, what in the...?" but I personally think the kid has it. Eager to see him play with a more solidified OL and some better offensive weapons. 1. (16) Tremaine Edmunds - instant starter and "QB of the defense" by age 20. Still has room to grow as a player and definitely should given McDermott's track record in coaching up LBs. And I saw a post that commented something like "Would you rather have Player X or Brian Urlacher?" Thought it was interesting because Urlacher was the pro comparison a lot of scouts put on Edmunds. 3. (96) Harrison Phillips - Contributing in the DL rotation, has flashed at times, learning from an all-time Bills great. Has the intelligence and tenacity to be a factor. 4. (121) Taron Johnson - Small school gem, kid sticks to receivers like glue and although he's a bit undersized, hits like a truck. 5. (154) Siran Neal - Contributing on special teams, has taken the most special teams snaps alongside another player whose name escapes me at the moment. 5. (166) Wyatt Teller - Now starting at left guard. 6. (187) Ray-Ray McCloud - Has been upstaged by Isaiah McKenzie as of late but if they have to bow out on a sixth-round pick, I don't think anyone is gonna lose any sleep over it. 7. (255) Austin Proehl - A comp pick that was one selection away from being Mr. Irrelevant. 7th round picks get cut all the time. Undrafted - Robert Foster - Made the team to start the season but then stumbled out of the gate and lost his job. Got it back and has been their best receiver over the last two games. Undrafted - Levi Wallace - Playing well enough to supplant Phillip Gaines (former 3rd round pick who they sent packing) and is part of a secondary that has allowed the least passing yards for the entire season and allows the lowest amount of yards per game (193.7). 2017 1. (27) Tre'Davious White - Instant starter and has turned into a top CB in the league. 2. (37) Zay Jones - Clearly works his tail off, hopefully the results will soon show. Rookie year he played on a run-first team and had to adapt to playing with four different QBs this season. Hopefully he turns the corner next year. 2. (63) Dion Dawkins - Played well enough in place of Glenn to take over the starting job as a rookie. Still developing but is the best player on the OL and an emerging leader. 5. (163) Matt Milano - Complete steal. Kid makes plays all over the field, always seems to be around the ball. 5. (171) Nathan Peterman - The unluckiest QB I've ever seen play. They whiffed on this one and held out their belief in him a bit too long but finally owned up to their miss and cut him. I'm sure he's a nice dude and all but he just doesn't have it. And this was the guy that scouts everywhere were calling "The most pro-ready QB of 2017" so it's not like the Bills were the only ones to miss on him. 6. (195) Tanner Vallejo - Drafted for depth and special teams, injuries got in his way, maybe he gets a better shot in Cleveland. Again, late-round picks often get cut. So, out of 16 total players (14 draft picks, 2 undrafted signings) EIGHT of them are starters (Allen, Edmunds, Johnson, Teller, White, Jones, Dawkins, Milano) and four of them are either getting substantial playing time as part of a rotation or on special teams. Of 16 total players they've drafted/signed, 12... TWELVE of them are already contributing. Two of them are having Pro Bowl-caliber seasons this year (White and Milano) and several more of them have the chance to be Pro Bowlers as well. Some (Edmunds, White) may even make All-Pro in their careers. I'd say this front office is off to a pretty good start. It's never been about 2018, this year has always been about being the sacrificial season, if you will, as they work towards sustained success, something this team hasn't had since the 90s. And it's because of impatience that they've spun their wheels time and again during that 17-year drought. Impatience and the belief that they were always just a piece or two away from competing and being contenders. Never having the guts to take a hard look at things and truly engage a full-on rebuild. I think they have the right guys in place to build a very good team. Just takes time. But they're on the right track.

To your first point, exactly. Hindsight is always 20/20 and after the fact anyone can nitpick about anything. And Edmunds played a lot more OLB in college, he's acclimating to the NFL while switching to MLB. Vander Esch is playing outside so these guys have different responsibilities based on their positions.