racketmaster

I don't think you understand what I was trying to lay out in the original post. 1. I never said being immobility leads to not being any good. I am looking at how the game is evolving and mobility does seem to be more of a desired trait. The speed of the game and defensive schemes make the off script plays that a Tony Romo or Aaron Rodgers make more important. They can turn bad plays (an offensive lineman getting beat or mssing an assignment) into good plays. So all things equal, I would prefer my qb to have a little more mobility. Hopefully, this is not too controversial. 2. Eli and Matt Ryan are solid franchise quarterbacks and there is nothing wrong with them. So if we were to draft Rosen at 12, I am happy with it. I also know that both those players need stron offensive lines, a good running game and often really talented wrs to be highly successful. Neither player is going to carry a team on their backs with limited talent around them. This again is not a problem because this is true for most qbs. Surround them with good talent and they will look better. The elite players like Farve, Elway, Rodgers can play with lesser talent and still have a good deal of success. I don't think this is too outrageous. 3. I have said Rosen is probably the most pro ready and plug and play qb in this draft. Again not that controversial and it is a positive attribute. 4. What I don't see for Rosen is a lot of upside. I think he is what you see similar to what you got at UCLA where he started right away and was good but never really made significant improvements. So I was mostly asking and cautioning, the most likely scenario is that you get Eli (on the field) when you draft Rosen. You take that if that is where the discussion ends. 5. But there happens to be more layers to the Rosen evaluation (character/durability). Those concerns lead me to be more cautious and more apt to see if he falls to 12. Again, I may be wrong but don't see this as overly controversial. To me you weigh the risks and rewards and taking him in the 10-12 range is where I see his value.

I don't share my opinions on the topics Rosen has tweeted on in the past so you don't no what I agree with or don't. I think Rosen would admit that at least in his past he has been immature and said things that maybe he should not have said. He believes he has grown up but how much is yet to be determined. There is a very real chance that Rosen does not hit it off with his Head Coach or Offensive Coordinator. Much more so than the other prospects. This might not be the case but Rosen said this week that if his coaches are bringing it everyday that they might have issues. You can take that as a positive or a negative. All I am saying is that Rosen has a very real chance of not hitting it off with our coaches. Rosen also likes to speak his mind on topics both inside sports and outside of sports. I am not hear to agree or disagree with his comments. I am saying that there is a real chance that as a GM you might wake up one morning to see news about a controversial tweet my starting qb just made. It probably is not the end of the world but it can cause distractions (team and staff now spend time answering questions defending what Rosen said) and it could cause some division in the locker room. Rosen is opinionated and he likes to share his opinions. Nothing wrong with that but when you are the starting qb of a billion dollar team it may be better to have more of the milk toast responses you get from Brady, Mannings, Brees etc. Again this is not a huge concern to me. But like hand size, wonderlic scores and 40 times, everything is to be considered when picking a franchise qb.

Yes, I have answered that question already several times. Darnold is my top choice. I think he checks every box (minus ball security concerns that I believe can be corrected to some degree). I think he can be an elite (top 5 qb) for a long time. If we can't get Darnold, then I would like to see the Bills be patient and wait. Mayfield goes in the top 5 but I could see either Allen or Rosen falling to 12 or close to that. Take the qb that falls and we keep most all of our picks and still have a qb with upside. I also happen to be a believer in Mason Rudolph who I do not think is far off from (Mayfield, Rosen and Allen) as an overall prospect. So if Bills are beaten to the punch, we can take Rudolph (I see as a Foles or potential Rivers) type qb and we keep our picks. Anytime any of the top qbs are slightly criticized their defenders tend to get overly defensive. I think this post was in response to what I am hearing and seeing from fans regarding Rosen. People seem very willing to trade significant assets to get him at #2 or #4 because they think he is the best prospect or the clear second best prospect. I just think he is in that second tier with Mayfield and Allen. I believe a more cautious approach might be the best way to go in this particular draft. I just don't view Rosen as an elite enough player to mortgage a bunch of picks, especially when this is a deep qb class and having some patience would allow us to fill in a lot of other holes.

You make a good point about the sacks. But Tyrod took a lot of sacks as well. I think it is the style of play that Rodgers and Tyrod would give outside the pocket. There will be sacks, but they will also make a bunch of big time plays when extending plays (mostly pertains to Rodgers). You will get very little of that from Eli and Rosen. Once the pocket breaks down he must escape the tackle box to throw it away. Because if he takes any longer he will get sacked from behind. So yes, the sacks may be similar but the big plays from outside the pocket are not there to compensate.

Again, you are talking about strictly on the field play. Rosen's very real emotional/maturity and durability concerns must be factored in as well. If he was squeaky clean and durable like Ryan and Eli, I don't think there would be much of an argument. But his best case scenario is Eli and that is if his mind does not wander away from the game and the concussions stop.

Yes, my preference would be this type of player (Darnold). Because you are likely hitching your wagon to whatever qb the Bills draft for the next 10-15 years. It is a long time and if mobility in a quarterback beccomes even more important over time, 6-7 years from now we might look back with some regret or envy at other quarterbacks around the league. If Darnold can't be had, then I get it, secondary plans must be made and Rosen is definitely in that discussion. And we could certainly do worse than an Eli or a Ryan. But, I also caution the character (emotional maturity) and durability. This is what could submarine Rosen's career more than anything else.

Darnold is my clear top choice. But as we know he is likely not a realistic option. There are things I like and dislike about Mayfield, Rosen and Allen. Out of that group, Rosen's play appears to be the most plug and play type. I just don't see much of a bust factor with him for his on the field play. So that is a good thing. So best player comps for Rosen are Eli and I also get the Matt Ryan comparison as well. Eli went #1 and Ryan #3. But both were squeaky clean off the field and neither had durability concerns. How much do those factors drop Rosen. They should create pause in teams looking for a quarterback, especially the durability issue. Those 2 issues might drop Rosen to 12 or at least in that vicinity. My overall thinking is, let's not overreact if we can't land Darnold. Let's not trade the farm to #2 just to get Rosen. Be smart and patient and he will most likely fall near our pick. Then if the Bills believe in him, then they can strike without giving up much in terms of assets. I would be okay with that.

I think if you watched enough of Rosen's games you would know there are plenty of WTF moments with him. Sometimes he gets away with it like the sure fire interception he threw up in the second Texas A&M game (ball ended up going right thru defenders hands and into a UCLA wr for a TD allowing the comeback to continue). There are clear similarities in the way Rosen plays to Eli's game. Again, Eli has been a pretty good qb so I am not bashing Rosen as a pick. Eli is also a little overrated (he plays for the Giants) and won 2 Supebowls. But there are a bunch of 7, 8 and 9 win seasons in his career. Plus, I am looking toward the future of where the NFL game is headed. Carson Wentz seems to be the future and my preference would be a little more escapability. That's why I will cross my fingers for Darnold. We would have to pay more now to get Darnold but he will require less help around him in the future.

It’s an honest opinion. And I am comparing Rosen to Eli not Matt Ryan or Peyton. Rosen’s play is more reckless, like Eli. It is 4 tds and 3ints. It’s taking sacks because he is trying to hold onto the ball to make a play. I just get the sense that many fans think they are getting Aaron Rodgers with Rosen because they may have similar personalities. But Rosen is nothing like Rodgers as far as style of play. Eli has won 2 Superbowls, but he had a lot of help and some luck along the way. Duplicating that may be difficult. If Rosen was Eli as far as durability and character, I say go for it and trade up. But the added risk concerns me and I would be more cautious in trading up for him.

First, I offer as much as I can to get Darnold. I think Darnold will be an elite player down the road and is more in line with the mobility the NFL is looking for from their quarterbacks. If if there are no takers, then I wait. Darnold will be off the board to Cleveland. Jets get Mayfield. Nobody else takes a qb until Miami unless a team trades up. That leaves Allen and Rosen. Allen has a higher upside than Rosen. If he hits his ceiling then you have a Big Ben. Of course he could also bust at a higher rate. There are 3 teams (MIA, ARZ, BUF) seemingly desperate for a qb. 2 of the 4 remain and a game of chicken begins. I would wait to see if one of those two falls to 12. Monitor the teams and when there is only one left then consider a move up a few slots. If we lose out, we can always draft Rudolph or Falk. I think those are similar style players with lesser arms.

The best player comparison for Josh Rosen is Eli Manning. We are just talking on field play here. Pro ready, plug and play type player. He will throw for a bunch of yards and touchdowns. Rosen Will also get sacked a lot and throw a bunch of picks. If you build a solid offensive line and very good defense you can win, maybe even a Super Bowl with some luck. If you have holes, your team will win 6-7 games. If we get Rosen, we are not getting one the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Why? Mobility. He lacks mobility but still has a gunslinger mentality and he has a propensity to stick throws in dangerous areas or up for grabs when pressured. The NFL game has changed and mobility is important. A qb does not have to have Tyrod Taylor like mobility but a player with at least Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers is preferred. The ability to escape danger to make a play downfield is often needed. So, from a football perspective I have concerns about buying into a quarterback with limited mobility in a changing NFL. You may counter with, what about Brady. In order to think that will happen, i have to think that Rosen will develop into a precision passer who works the shorter routes. He would have to repress his gunslinger mentality, which is who Rosen is. This is unlikely to happen. And we have not talked about the possible character issues and more importantly the durability issues. Both of which Eli did not have and Rosen does. In the end, Rosen is a tough evaluation. His lack of mobility goes against a changing NFL game but he should still be pretty good like Eli, provided he stays healthy. I would not trade up for this type of player but I would take him if he fell to 12. Maybe move up to 10. Rosen, like Eli Manning, will not be able to carry a team and he will need as many good players around him to have success. We need those draft picks to turn into good players.

On WGR 550 this morning, Jordan Palmer said he really liked the Buffalo regime and he thought big things were coming. Kinda of like stay tuned but Howard was unable to get anything more out of him. For those who do not know, Palmer works closely with Darnold and Allen as their qb guru.

Go get Darnold!!!

We only go to 4 if it means we can get to #2. And Darnold must be available at #2. Darnold is the cleanest of the prospects and a fit for this regime. I think it would be a mistake to give up significant capital for Allen, Rosen or Mayfield. I don't see a huge gap between those 3 and Rudolph. To me, Darnold's floor is Tony Romo and that is good enough. His ceiling might not be much higher but barring injury, this kid should at least be pretty good. The other 3 all have significant risk and I would much rather keep the draft capital and hope one of them falls to 12. If not Rudolph is a solid backup plan with all your picks in hand.

I believe the Bills did meet with Jackson for 15 minutes at the NFL Combine. Maybe that was all it took to realize that they wanted to go in a different direction or maybe the Bills could not get in touch with his mom/management team to schedule an appropriate time. But the fact is that there has been no in depth meetings/visits between the two sides and that is extremely telling. Maybe if this was a previous regime they would try creating a smokescreen by not meeting with Jackson but this regime is smarter and more meticulous. They are going to identify quarterbacks that fit what they are looking for and do an exhaustive analysis on them. They are all about being prepared. They are certainly not going to outsmart themselves by drafting a quarterback that they have not been able to do a thorough meeting with. This is the franchise quarterback, not a cornerback. Their jobs will likely depend on getting this pick right and I just can't imagine Beane making such an important decision without an in depth analysis of Jackson.

There are different opinions on each of the qbs. There are a lot of scouts that don’t think Jackson is a qb (I’m not making this up and it is not just Bill Polian). Watson was a much more polished qb from inside the pocket and he is a better communicator and smarter. But all that does not matter, it has been plain to see the Bills are not interested in Jackson. It is what it is. Maybe they are wrong for not going after him but I trust this regime and I see what they are trying to do.

I’m confused by why you decided to bring up Cam. He is not in this draft. I listed the quarterbacks the Bills are interested in for the 2018 draft. Cam was in the 2011 draft. If your inferring that Cam is somehow like Jackson, I just don’t see it. 1. Cam took his team to a National Title game while Jackson got 8-9 wins each year. 2. Cam was a 66% passer his final year at Auburn. 3. Cam is 6’5 and weighs 230-240 lbs. he can stand tall in the pocket and absorb hits. There is more but you get the point. They are nothing alike and just because Beane was scouting Cam 7 years ago does not mean anything for this draft. Read what anonymous executives, coaches and scouts say about Jackson. He is a project at qb if he is able to make it at all. The Bills are not drafting him. Maybe Jackson goes to a team that can let him sit for a few years and he because really good. It’s just not going to happen here.

It’s because Jackson is not the pocket passer they are looking for this franchise at this time. It’s that simple. The Bills have had visits, workouts and/or meetings with Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen, Rudolph and Falk. Those are the top qbs that the Bills have scouted and interviewed.

I’ve said all along that the Bills are not going to draft Jackson as their franchise qb. This team is not going to make a huge commitment (put their careers on the line) for a smokescreen. If they wanted Jackson he would have been through “the process”.

I agree with the assessment that his team may be putting him out there with all these interviews “to stop the bleeding” (slipping in the draft). He also may just be fulfilling an endorsement contract with Old Spice. Lol I don’t have a problem with drafting Rosen but I just don’t want to give up much of anything to do it. I honestly don’t see much more upside in Rosen than a Mason Rudolph. At best, Rosen becomes Eli Manning and at Rudolph’s best he is a slightly lesser version of Philip Rivers. In the end, I trust that Beane and his team will make the right move.

To me, Rosen is a less durable Eli Manning. Very similar playing style. I don't mind taking him at 12 but I would prefer not to trade up for that type of player who also has durability concerns.

I think Rudolph’s ceiling is more a guy like Philip Rivers. His floor is a Brandon Weeden. Probably ends up somewhere in the middle and has an Andy Dalton like career, but I do think there is a reasonable chance he could be better than Dalton.

There are some experts that like Rudolph. Trent Dilfer thinks he is underrated and is very similar to Nick Foles. Steve Fairchild (ex OC) did a deep analysis on Rudolph and has him as a first round talent ahead of Jackson and Mayfield. Chris Trapasso at CBS has had Rudolph as his #1 qb. There are others but your point is generally true in that Rudolph is typically viewed In the second tier of qbs after the top 4 and Jackson.

Yes, but would prefer at 22. I think Rudolph is very underrated. He does some things in the pocket (sliding and stepping up) better than the other top qbs. Smart, competitive, mature, nice deep ball and has solid accuracy. The one problem I have is his lack of velocity on sideline routes. For a guy that is big and can throw the deep ball, his sideline velocity does not match up. Throws well over the middle on both short and intermediate routes. Maybe there is some mechanical fix to the sideline throws. There are times he gets it there but just too many instances where there is no juice.

I laid out some of the concerns I have with Rosen. NFL teams must have concerns as well about his skill set and ability to lift a franchise. He is likely to slip because of those concerns not because he wants his coaches to challenge him everyday. Remember, Cam Newton had a bunch of character concerns (“me guy” ,“focused on other interests”) but he still went #1 because he was immensely talented. There are some significant flaws with Rosen and with the added “character questions” he probably slips a little in this draft. That is why I would not be eager to trade up as he is likely to fall past the Colts.