racketmaster

Not saying you can’t have an opinion but I’m telling you the morning show was like a funeral this morning and Mike was full of snark and vinegar in the afternoon. But as soon as a guest came out they all flipped a switch as if they were happy with the picks. It was just odd hearing the transitions. And there is a way to have a healthy debate rather than it being combative.

It was so depressing to listen to Howard and Jeremy in the morning. You would have thought someone close to them died. They are so convinced that they are right (Rosen is very good and Allen sucks because he has a low completion%) that they could not accept how an NFL team could see it differently.

Probably a combination of all those things. I would add Rosen’s lack of mobility hurt him some as well. Plus, this regime may have just liked the long term upside of Allen better.

With Allen, there is not much middle ground. Fans, analysts and scouts mostly either like him or hate him. I don't mind that Beane took a big swing on Allen as he will either hit a home run or strike out. If he hits the home run, we don't talked about quarterbacks for another decade or more. If he strikes out, we may be discussing who we would like to see as our new GM and HC.

I'll start with the prospect rankings from some of the most well known draft analysts. As expected there is a variation of opinions as with all the quarterbacks this year. Daniel Jerimiah: #4 QB Prospect Bucky Brooks: #5 QB Prospect Mike Mayock: #2 QB Prospect Mel Kiper: #1 QB Prospect Todd McShay: #3 QB Prospect Tony Pauline: #2 QB Prospect Dan Brugler: #4 QB Prospect Bills took Allen as the #3 QB off the board so this seems reasonable according to the draft pundits. There are some varying opinions on Allen from scouts, coaches and executives as well: Anonymous Scout says: “Kid put up terrible stats against bad competition. He was even worse against Power 5 competition, I’ll pass. According to Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer, “not much has changed” after a terrible junior season, as far as scouts are concerned. He’s still seen as a first-round pick and a “raw mountain of ability,” though he does lack “polish.” 5 NFL executives and asked for their pro comparison after they studied Allen. Here are their answers. Executive 1: Ben Roethlisberger "He reminds me of Ben coming out (of college). Similar size, athleticism, playmaking ability and decision-making. Allen actually has a stronger arm." Executive 2: Jake Locker "I actually think there are some similarities to his game that will remind people of all three QBs taken early in the 2011 draft (Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert and Locker). However, he reminds me more of Locker than the other two. Immensely talented athlete with a big arm but I question his accuracy. Major boom-or-bust prospect." Executive 3: Locker "I hope I'm wrong but I see a lot of Jake Locker in his play. He's taller, obviously. You can't ask for more physical tools. However, I have major concerns about his field vision and accuracy. He is a classic boom-bust guy." Executive 4: Cam Newton "There isn't one specific guy that comes to mind. I'd probably say a lesser version of Cam Newton. He's a big, raw athlete that flashes 'wow' plays. Huge arm, can run, throw on the move and extend plays. His accuracy and mechanics are a concern. Big upside. Love the prospect." Executive 5: Paxton Lynch "I recognize the size and arm talent but I can't get past the poor accuracy, footwork and decision-making. I see some similarities to Paxton Lynch." Former NFL Offensive Coordinator Steve Fairchild ranked Allen his #1 quarterback with the following summary: "Allen is an elite talent when it comes to quarterbacks. He has NFL size, as well as very good athletic ability. He plays the game of football with toughness. He will have to learn to slide at the next level. Allen has a big arm with a quick release. These abilities make defenses have to defend the entire field as he can quickly and effortlessly throw the ball anywhere. He can stand in the pocket and continue to process with defenders around him, in addition to being able to escape and create when necessary. His speed is good, as is his ability to throw accurately on the run. Allen is a quarterback that doesn’t have a lot of experience and may have a learning curve when making the jump to the NFL in terms of scheme and situational football. His talent is undeniable and he should be top pick in the first round of the 2018 NFL draft and the first or second quarterback off the board." More random anonymous scouts and coaches: Before the combine, an NFC executive offered a prediction for how the pre-draft process would play out for Allen: "If you liked the tape, you'll love him from this point forward. If you didn't like the tape, you're going to like him in spite of it." That seems to be exactly what happened, to the point that the rest of the league believes the Browns really might take Allen with the No. 1 overall pick. How would new Cleveland GM John Dorsey justify that? "I think just the upside," an NFC personnel director said. "He's got a big, strong frame. He's got a big arm. He's competitive. He's tough. And he is not a polished passer at all. His accuracy is very inconsistent -- it's well-documented. But I think Dorsey kind of likes the tough, gunslinger type of quarterback." Of course, the downside on Allen is greater, too. There were a lot of factors that went into the 56.2 percent completion rate over his college career, but it's a concerning number no matter how you slice it -- and it shows up on tape. "You're not going to fix that in 10 weeks or two years," an offensive coordinator said. "If you're not accurate, you're not accurate. There's an element of processing and anticipation that I think he lacks. But I think he's got a big arm and somebody's going to over-draft the guy because of that." Allen isn't strictly a product of impressive workouts, though. I remember one executive telling me in September that this guy at Wyoming is the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck. (That exec predicted again this past weekend that Allen goes No. 1.) Another scout who has studied Allen closely offered a comp to Dan Marino -- if Allen keeps improving mechanically. "You're talking about a kid who's got a rocket arm who's more mobile than they give him credit for," the scout said, "and if he fixes the feet, the accuracy is going to come -- 100 percent, it'll come." Allen's medical was another question heading into the combine, given two past collarbone breaks and shoulder issues last year, but sources say his physical there raised no major red flags. He presented himself well in interviews, too. "He's the top guy in my mind," an AFC scout said. "He's a stud."

If you base accuracy solely on college completion percentage, you really don’t know what you are talking about. It is part of the equation but not everything.

I like your point but I would also suggest that Josh Allen stay far away from message boards and talk radio. It can be a black hole for any athlete especially for players in his position.

Good post. I hope after about 24 hours, most Rosen supporters will begin to get on board with the new qb. It was a long draft process and fans dug in on their opinions. Give the kid a chance and keep an open mind.

Edmunds jumps out on tape as he is easy to find due to his size and athleticism. This guy is a freak and not even 20 years old yet. A top 10 talent.

Thank you. Fans who love Rosen will tell you that he is the most accurate and polished passer in the draft and usually those same persons will tell you that Allen has terrible accuracy (56% to 60%). The narrative being pushed about their accuracy does not seem to be "accurate".

If you are right 100% of the time you should be a scout for the Bills and then we would have nothing to complain about.

Wow, listening to the WGR guys this morning is depressing. Very similar to the atmosphere after the election results in 16. People became so invested in the process that it has become very personal. The waters seem to be poisoned for Allen because opinions have been formed and it will be difficult for some to change them. I can't wait for the first videos to emerge of Allen missing a target in practice to be posted online. I loved Darnold but must admit he had his own faults (loopy throwing motion and prone to turnovers). They all had issues and flags. As a qb prospect, Allen is as physically gifted as I have seen since Cam Newton. So there is potential there. As Bills fans I hope that we can get behind the kid or at least have some patience.

NFL evaluators have tended to like Allen more than the fans and internet scouts. There has been a disconnect between the two sides and over time one side will be proven right. Personally, I have liked Allen as a prospect but I admit to have a tendency to place a higher emphasis on “tools”. Not my top choice (Darnold) but I would have taken him over Rosen. I believe that in time he can be a Big Ben type Quarterback.

I trust that Beane made the right choice.

Means that you are due to be wrong on one of these prospects. Lol

Probably Rosen.

2 if the top 4 falling toward 12. With each pick the cost of moving up becomes more affordable.

Then there should be no reason to overpay.

It's all about the odds and I make assumptions based on the odds. I think we all do this right?

Patience. I trust this regime has multiple plans and they will find their way to a qb they like.

Ok. #4 for Rosen is probably a little too rich for my taste but not a horrible plan. Lauletta has a chance to be a decent backup qb but almost no franchise qb potential. I would much prefer Rudolph to Lauletta if I were hoping to strike gold outside the top 4.

We are not going to agree but what is your ideal plan? Trade to #4 for Rosen? I'm not saying it is a terrible idea, but just asking since you don't like any of the plans I laid out and you must have a plan of your own.

Disagree. 1. Everybody has a price so if you want Darnold bad enough it is a possibility. 2. Many mocks are showing Rosen falling to 12 or 15. At the very least, he is likely to slide out of the top 5. And now with the Allen tweets, he might be the qb to slide to 12. So this is a very realistic possibility. 3. You don't like Rudolph. I get it, he is an acquired taste. But he should be available at 22 and could be a nice option (slightly better than Andy Dalton).

It's likely more of a PR issue than a personal character issue. This happened when he was in high school and 15 years old. People say and do a bunch of stupid things at 15 especially if you are just talking smack with your buddies. The context matters. I obviously do not know him well enough to vouch for his character but I am sure the teams are meticulously going thru all of this to make sure they get it right.

1. Darnold. He can be an elite player for a long time and I would be willing to part with significant assets to include next year's #1. He is a player that would have the Bills a playoff team even if the talent around him is sub par. And there is less character and durability concerns. 2. Take the qb who falls close to 12 (Mayfield, Allen or Rosen). 3. If you get beat to the punch, you take Rudolph at 22. I probably like Rudolph more than most but don't see him as much of a drop off from the other 3 and we keep our picks.