oldmanfan

Best news of the day was that Kim Pegula was there.

Show me the lies. With actual proof.

I’ve been saying the entire off-season the success or failure of the offense rests with the ability of Brady to scheme things.

I agree. I would say if they don’t like the way the WRs are shaping up Beane may go get a guy like Adams or Aiyuk in a trade. But doubtful. And this may be McDsput up or shut up year.

They got Diggs. They drafted Davis and drafted Shakir in lower rounds who were productive. They drafted now Coleman. They drafted a lower round guy again in Shorter who has yet to show his potential due to injury. Several years ago they brought in Beasley, Brown, Sanders in free agency. They brought several guys in as FAs this year. And of course brought in 2 TEs in Kincaid and Knox. They have worked on the WR position, but more through trades and FA vs. draft. When you say relative to the rest of the league it would be helpful to actually show data on that. He’ll be at best their second option. We’ll see how he does. His competitive spirit could either cause him to do great this year or make Stroud’s life miserable demanding the ball all the time.

Thanks for a reasonable take vs. some of the hyperbolic stuff we’ve seen. Let me respond in kind. As I’ve stated previously, the biggest difference in this awe corps is not having Diggs. The question then is which Diggs will we be missing: the Diggs of his first few years or the Diggs of the last part of last season? Greg Cosell is a guy whose opinions I value, and he has stated Diggs was not commanding as much attention the last half of the season. Or, in the vernacular, he was no longer a “#1WR”. In contrast, we saw Shakir’s production make a huge jump the latter half of the year. So can Shakir now fill Diggs’ shoes? Maybe not the Diggs of 2-3 years ago, but the Diggs from last year I’d say so. The other loss was Davis. From a receiving standpoint certainly guys like Samuel or MVS or Coleman can do as well. We may miss Davis more from a blocking perspective than from a receiving perspective. Any discussion of the Bills receiving corps has to not just focus on WRs but on the extent of ALL those in the passing game. So Kincaid had an outstanding rookie year and should be poised for more. That is not unreasonable. Nor is it unreasonable to think Knox offers a second productive receiving presence in two TE sets. Then you throw in Cook and possibly Davis. Frustration has been shown over the Bills not surrounding Allen with talent and prioritizing defense. But they traded for Diggs, drafted Cook and Kincaid and now Coleman with day 1 or 2 picks, and added to the O line to protect him either by FA (Morse, McGovern) or the draft (Torrence). So there has been effort made. I would also argue you can’t treat this as an either/or situation: you can only focus on offense vs. defense. You have to have both; the Chiefs showed that last year and of course historically this is the case. The Bills have not drafted a really high end WR because of their success: they have been in the low end of round one for a while so those guys go early. Could they have moved up? Sure, but at the sacrifice of other spots. One of the things I find curious is how many folks are convinced Worthy will be such a huge hit for the Chiefs, and equally convinced that a guy drafted just a couple positions lower in Coleman (who Josh apparently really wanted) will be a bust. We will see starting this week how Brady constructs the office. And if the receivers look suspect I think Beane will look to make a move. I don’t think he’ll need to however.

Except for going 6-1 as interim OC and 1-1 in the playoffs for the Buffalo Bills

And got their first shot as an OC as well.

We have a lot of Nostradamus wannabes on this board. If they were as good at predicting the future as they think, they would be on their private island sipping cocktails after making a fortune on Wall Street. So we’ll see how Brady does. The guys mentioned above all started at some point as well.

one

Amen. Camp starts this week. We’ll know soon enough.

When you pretend to make sense let us know.

No one will ever be as good as Van Miller.

You’re such a cheerful person. For all we know this WR corps does fine, Josh thrives under Brady and we’re all at the parade in February.

Interesting philosophies. Some will sell out to get one Lombardi then have things fall apart due to cap issues and such. Some want to be competitive on a yearly basis and win that way. Not sure either is right or wrong. still waiting for a single defensive lineman to make a difference in a post-wildcard playoff game. Your words. Thought you were talking in general.

You want examples of D linemen doing so, I’ll offer two names: Chris Jones Aaron Donald

Agreed. It must be very easy to just invent such criteria out of thin air.

No. I expect several to improve including Shakir, Samuel, and Kincaid.

When you get into the lower rounds on day 3 I suspect Beane would tell you they go by what player ranks highest on their board at that time. Sometimes like with Shakir it’s a WR and that’s working out well. Sometimes a LB like Milano. Sometimes you never see the guy on the field -I’m thinking that will be Shorter.

They are precisely the same as double dipping. Each relies on hope and faith with the exception that guys like MVS, Claypool and Hamler have shown they can play some in the league. Hamlet hampered because of injury, Claypool because of his head. Either of them get straightened out they can be a big help. So the question you need to answer is why you’re convinced Coleman can’t do it but a double dipped guy rounds later was going to be the guy.

I think it will because I think this entire conversation about the WR room, without taking into account other potential weapons, is a bit silly to be honest. You have a very good young TE in Kincaid and a guy in Knox who has been productive in his career (although his propensity for drops on easy catches drives me crazy). It would be like having a conversation about the Chiefs receiving ability and leaving out Kelce. I also think we'll see Cook and Davis involved in the passing game. Again, Brady needs to use his players in a way that maximizes offensive output. But one of the things I think we did better in the latter half of last season was run the ball. I suspect we will see a sustained commitment to the run game this year. That will both save wear and tear on Josh and open up things for the receiving group.

y my best case scenario for the receiving room is Shakir becomes a chain moving weapon from the slot and adds a couple of hundred yards of production, Coleman essentially replaces Gabe as the bigger downfield guy and gets close to his production as a rookie and Samuel is used as a poor man's Stefon Diggs move receiver the way Joe Brady was trying to use Stef at the end of last year. That would give you a serviceable room, but I agree with what someone said earlier... the only route to them being a difference making room is that Keon goes off as a rookie and is already being talked about as a possible top 10 receiver by the end of his first year. That could happen, but the odds are slim IMO. Yes, those all had contractual final say. Terry Pegula told you when he hired Brandon Beane that he was in charge of personnel, the draft and the 53. If McDermott had contractual final say we would know about it. He doesn't and those who have been in that building confirm that Beane runs personnel. He has the final say. While McDermott has more power in the organisation, Beane runs personnel. They drafted a big WR with their first pick this year in Coleman, and added several FAs that, if they can either get through injury history (Hamler) or get their head together (Claypool) would be the equivalent of double dipping in a lower round for a WR, as so many have said they should have done. I suppose Beane could still try and trade for another guy like an Aiyuk or Lamb, but it's hard to see that working with the cap. The only other thing they could have thought about is trading way up to get one of the top 3 guys, but that would have cost them a lot of capital that was needed for other spots, given the losses for example in the defensive backfield. I don' t think keeping Diggs was an option for several reasons: 1. he didn't want to be here; 2. Josh didn't want him here (I don't think there's any way Diggs gets traded without Josh signing on); 3. Diggs is on the downside of his career. I have reiterated my view several times that the success of the offense this year lies primarily with Brady and how he structures the offense.

When you get right down to it the only potential downgrade is losing Diggs, and that’s assuming Diggs is the Diggs from the first half of last season vs. the second half. I don’t think anyone can seriously argue that losing Davis but bringing in Samuel and/or MVS is not, at worst, a wash. So if Shakir continues his ascent, Samuel does better than Davis, and the other guys contribute the WR position will be OK.

Beane. They’ve been clear on that. And for the third time now McD is not Beane’s boss. Fact. Then tell your boy Badolbilz that TEs need to be left out because he adds them in when he feels like it. We’ll see where the WRs rank when they play football. See above about Badolbillz. He adds them when he sees fit.

The fact is simple: Pegula has said, Beane has said, and McD has said that the HC and GM each report to the owner. We can disagree on opinions, that’s kind of what chat rooms are for. But facts are facts. And when I have been wrong on a fact I acknowledge and thank folks for correcting me. Why is it in this thread that some ghat are negative on this topic insist we can only talk about WRs, until it’s convenient to mention TEs when it suits their purpose?