Figster
-
Posts
4,960 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Gallery
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by Figster
-
-
Yeah.
Personally I think the whole size thing is B.S.
Does it help you see the field better if you are taller - of course. Does it help you to control the ball better if your hands are big - most definitely.
Still can have really talented players who are a little undersized. Drew Brees Russ Wilson among many others in history.
If Whaley truly does have a (very tall) qb size requirement - and I knew that to be factually true, I would think much less of him as a talent evaluator. Because that would prove that he thinks his intelligence supersedes the importance of a players playing ability. Which of course is bullcrap.
Anything below the height of most linemans shoulder pads limits a QB's view of the football field in my humble opinion.
In the right system the limitation can be managed.
On the other hand why draft a 6 ft one QB If a '6 4" QB with the same skill set is available.
-
Hi Thurm -
Thanks.
I think you have to look at what's guaranteed and then what's likely. Guaranteed was $40, and what's likely now is $30. Why is it likely? Because there's no upside to the Bills cutting him after 2017, because the cap hit is almost as bad as keeping him. So unless he becomes a public relations problem, the Bills will always keep him for 2018. Even if they've found another starter, he's a better backup than they could find anywhere else.
So I'm pretty sure Taylor looked at it as giving up $10 million.
However, if you review what's been said and and the contract history, I think the conclusion that these negotiations are a lot less about the money and a lot more about the option to terminate the contract. That is, it's always been about Taylor's freedom to make a new deal and who has the option to set him free.
He left Baltimore and wanted to go someplace where he could start. He didn't seem to spend any time or energy on getting a lot of money; he wanted to go somewhere where he had a good chance to start and where he would have a short contract. He signed a three year deal with Buffalo, but a major part of the deal for Tyrod was that he could opt out after two years.
So what happened? He played well his first year and the Bills were unhappy about the fact that Taylor could leave after year two. That meant that if Taylor had a good year two, the Bills would have to give him something like five years at $20 million per to keep him, and the Bills knew that they weren't going to be willing to commit that much to him after year two. They wanted to see him for at least three years.
So they go to Taylor and suggest renegotiating, so the Bills could have a full three years and then cut him without penalty if they wanted to. Taylor said no, because the option at the end of year two was what he wanted. He wasn't going to give up the option for nothing. He asked for a long-term deal with big money. Bills said no to the money, yes to the long-term IF the option to end it all without penalty at the end of year two came back to the Bills. Taylor said ok, he'll give up the option to get out because he has guaranteed money.
Year two happens and Taylor underperforms, in comparison to year one and also in terms of what's good enough to win in the NFL. Now the Bills are on the hotseat. They have the option to end the deal and avoid the guarantees, but they aren't sure about Taylor. If Taylor is the year-one QB, the contract is a bargain. If he's the year-two QB, they're overpaying and they may want to move on.
Meanwhile, Taylor doesn't have the same doubts. He's started for two years, he knows he can play in the league. His seasons are nothing like the seasons Manuel and most young QBs have in the league. He's seen guys bounce around the league. He knows for the next seven years he can get FItzpatrick-McCown money all day long. He's better than they are, and someone will always pay him to play or to be a quality backup on a contending team. That's his cushion. He knows that he's always going to be able to make the money he's guaranteed under his current contract. What he wants is to get the option back. He wants the leverage to be able to say in a year or two that he wants more money, more than he'd get locked up with the Bills through 2021 or whenever.
So I think Taylor looked at it and said, "I'm guaranteed $40. Under the two-year deal we're talking about, I'm almost certainly going to get $30. I'm almost certainly going to get the additional $10 in the next one or two years after that. So the guarantee of $40 doesn't mean a lot; I'm going to get the $40 either way. But under the new deal, my upside in 2019, 2020 and 2021 is much higher. The salary cap is going up. If I play well, I can get over $20 a year, maybe even $25 a year." I think Taylor listened to that, has confidence in his abilities and his future, and said "this is easy - I'll get the $40 either way, and the new deal gives me options."
Bills, likewise, liked the deal because THEY got the option to terminate without major pain after 2018. What the Bills gave up is the opportunity to have Taylor on the cheap if he turns out to be good.
I think what very well could happen is that in 2017 Taylor has a good year - say a passer rating around 94, which is his average. That would be at or around top 10. Bills win 9-10 games. And next February or March, Taylor and the Bills are renegotiating AGAIN. Why? Because at that point the Bills don't want to go into 2018 with Taylor playing on a one-year deal. If he has another good season, his price tag will go WAY up - as I said, in the low- to mid-20s. So they'll be talking about a new deal, 4-5-6 years, just like the last one, worth more than the deal the Bills just got away from, and with more than half of it guaranteed.
If Taylor has another mediocre season, Bills go looking for a new QB, keep Taylor for 2018 and then negotiate or let him walk.
What happened is that Taylor gave up some money to get out from under a long term deal. The Bills gave up the bargain price for a starting QB in order to get out from under the long-term future. They're both betting on what Taylor does in the next two seasons.
If Taylor didn't want to make that bet, he would have refused to renegotiate and called the Bills' bluff.
Let me bump this again if its ok with everyone.
-
When you start pointing at Brady's sacrifices to justify why Taylor did what he did then you are trolling. The only thing worth mentioning is that they played the same positions.
Nothing else is close, including the contractual details. Brady has been paid well for years, Taylor is a bench dweller in the prime of his career who just lost millions in order to keep a door open for himself. Hopefully he can earn those millions back otherwise he is nothing more than a place holder and soon to be the next in a long line of Bills QB fails.
The point is still the same.
Take a little less money and the team benefits from it.
-
Didn't Brady play for a lesser contract in order to gain better pieces around him and give him a better chance to win? Seems like a crazy idea, huh?
Great point BillsMedia,
If you want to build up to an even bigger payday for everyone concerned,
Don't be greedy...
-
Hi Thurm -
Thanks.
I think you have to look at what's guaranteed and then what's likely. Guaranteed was $40, and what's likely now is $30. Why is it likely? Because there's no upside to the Bills cutting him after 2017, because the cap hit is almost as bad as keeping him. So unless he becomes a public relations problem, the Bills will always keep him for 2018. Even if they've found another starter, he's a better backup than they could find anywhere else.
So I'm pretty sure Taylor looked at it as giving up $10 million.
However, if you review what's been said and and the contract history, I think the conclusion that these negotiations are a lot less about the money and a lot more about the option to terminate the contract. That is, it's always been about Taylor's freedom to make a new deal and who has the option to set him free.
He left Baltimore and wanted to go someplace where he could start. He didn't seem to spend any time or energy on getting a lot of money; he wanted to go somewhere where he had a good chance to start and where he would have a short contract. He signed a three year deal with Buffalo, but a major part of the deal for Tyrod was that he could opt out after two years.
So what happened? He played well his first year and the Bills were unhappy about the fact that Taylor could leave after year two. That meant that if Taylor had a good year two, the Bills would have to give him something like five years at $20 million per to keep him, and the Bills knew that they weren't going to be willing to commit that much to him after year two. They wanted to see him for at least three years.
So they go to Taylor and suggest renegotiating, so the Bills could have a full three years and then cut him without penalty if they wanted to. Taylor said no, because the option at the end of year two was what he wanted. He wasn't going to give up the option for nothing. He asked for a long-term deal with big money. Bills said no to the money, yes to the long-term IF the option to end it all without penalty at the end of year two came back to the Bills. Taylor said ok, he'll give up the option to get out because he has guaranteed money.
Year two happens and Taylor underperforms, in comparison to year one and also in terms of what's good enough to win in the NFL. Now the Bills are on the hotseat. They have the option to end the deal and avoid the guarantees, but they aren't sure about Taylor. If Taylor is the year-one QB, the contract is a bargain. If he's the year-two QB, they're overpaying and they may want to move on.
Meanwhile, Taylor doesn't have the same doubts. He's started for two years, he knows he can play in the league. His seasons are nothing like the seasons Manuel and most young QBs have in the league. He's seen guys bounce around the league. He knows for the next seven years he can get FItzpatrick-McCown money all day long. He's better than they are, and someone will always pay him to play or to be a quality backup on a contending team. That's his cushion. He knows that he's always going to be able to make the money he's guaranteed under his current contract. What he wants is to get the option back. He wants the leverage to be able to say in a year or two that he wants more money, more than he'd get locked up with the Bills through 2021 or whenever.
So I think Taylor looked at it and said, "I'm guaranteed $40. Under the two-year deal we're talking about, I'm almost certainly going to get $30. I'm almost certainly going to get the additional $10 in the next one or two years after that. So the guarantee of $40 doesn't mean a lot; I'm going to get the $40 either way. But under the new deal, my upside in 2019, 2020 and 2021 is much higher. The salary cap is going up. If I play well, I can get over $20 a year, maybe even $25 a year." I think Taylor listened to that, has confidence in his abilities and his future, and said "this is easy - I'll get the $40 either way, and the new deal gives me options."
Bills, likewise, liked the deal because THEY got the option to terminate without major pain after 2018. What the Bills gave up is the opportunity to have Taylor on the cheap if he turns out to be good.
I think what very well could happen is that in 2017 Taylor has a good year - say a passer rating around 94, which is his average. That would be at or around top 10. Bills win 9-10 games. And next February or March, Taylor and the Bills are renegotiating AGAIN. Why? Because at that point the Bills don't want to go into 2018 with Taylor playing on a one-year deal. If he has another good season, his price tag will go WAY up - as I said, in the low- to mid-20s. So they'll be talking about a new deal, 4-5-6 years, just like the last one, worth more than the deal the Bills just got away from, and with more than half of it guaranteed.
If Taylor has another mediocre season, Bills go looking for a new QB, keep Taylor for 2018 and then negotiate or let him walk.
What happened is that Taylor gave up some money to get out from under a long term deal. The Bills gave up the bargain price for a starting QB in order to get out from under the long-term future. They're both betting on what Taylor does in the next two seasons.
If Taylor didn't want to make that bet, he would have refused to renegotiate and called the Bills' bluff.
Always a pleasure to read your posts/insight.
thanks
-
-
he does have a point. I would not suggest he does not.
He'll poke you with it if your not careful
-
I think college football is a perfect example of they are willing to risk it. Getting caught violating NCAA rules really hurts a program in a lot of cases yet 43% of FBS schools committed major violations in the last 10 years. These schools lose scholarships, bowl game eligibility etc....multiple schools guilty more than once. Why are they still committing major violations when they have seen multiple schools go on probation? In fact, only 17 of the 100+ FBS schools have never been caught.
Here's a report the NFL violating drug laws for years
Here's more violations....tampering included.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/04/if-the-patriots-cheated-theyre-hardly-alone/
Here's Matt Bowen, an ex-Bill talking about cheating in the NFL.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2356743-how-do-nfl-teams-really-cheat
Point well taken
-
no need really.
we set records for that every week it seems. so how about we refrain from that word and insult Bangarang
lol, touche
Bang has a point though
-
yep, a team getting caught tampering illegally is proof that noone does it.
where is the freaking logic?
legal standpoint or not, the logic is kind of bizarre. you list a case of a team getting caught tampering illegally and that is justification that noone else is doing it? is this bizarro world?
there are all kinds of ways to maneuver around the illegalities. these are what is known as loopholes. they have been around since the dawn of time and they will continue to be exploited until the end of time.
I'm not saying you can't find ways around something ,
but If their going to cut off your head when you get caught would you still do it?
I'm just saying...
-
i know you didn't just crawl out from under a rock. so there has to be another explanation for the naivete here.
Shaw is giving us his perspective from a legal standpoint and the point is the penalties should be severe enough to eliminate the problem.
Why would you expect anything different?
I respect Shaws opinion on this...
-
There will always be people who want to believe in the QB. JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel, and now Tyrod Taylor.
The way I see it when the Buffalo Bills decide on the QB they want to lead the football team I can play my small part by standing behind the decision.
Its called being a fan of the team.
-
I think tampering happens all the time with free agents and non-free agents. I don't think that there's an under ground system in place, I just think in any large business....ethics are easily bypassed. Especially in a competitive industry like the NFL.
Everyone knows the penalties if caught but yet they still do them in major sports. It's something that agents and others in the industry will figure out creatively how to bypass.
l've listened to both sides of this argument with interest and I'm inclined to agree with Tee/FC
Teams by and large take advantage of anything they can get away with IMO,
and I'll use the Patriots as an example.
-
I briefly met Chad on the field when he was with Clemson. It was memorably negative experience as he was a rude punk. FF to today and it appears he hasn't changed much. I see no chance this jerk becomes the leader of an NFL football team. My guess is the lengthy research NFL teams do will lead them to glaringly red flags.
Even after everything that has happened when asked what he would tell NFL teams in the interview process he said "I have it all. I play with a different swag they've never seen before". He is truly a moron.
Cocky, conceited, swagger dripping from him,
Doesn't that sound at all familiar to you?
Chad Kelly is still a kid with allot of growing up to do in my humble opinion,
just like Cam when he got caught red handed with a stolen lab top.
-
the logical answer is Dennison worked Tyrod. Which is fine.
Told him he could get the best out of him as he knows him well. And if that works out? TT will get paid. I think Taylor is a humble Man who wants to do his best. I also thinks he feels he can do better. If i am that athlete ? I want to win and i want all the help I can get.
This is an opportunity not a compromise
Myself personally, it appears the organization was determined to keep plans of T T's future a question mark for posturing purposes while constructing a coaching staff and system Taylor made for Tyrod's success.
Which to me 3rd does fit into what your suggesting.
-
Good post Shaw66
but you didn't read all 65 pages?
Awww come on man!
-
Voted Kelly,
In the 5th...
-
Coaching. that will be the difference if he is to show better on the field.
I have only one opinion about that. Bills seem to want to see what Tyrod can do for them and they him.
Seems like fun to me !
New Bills seem to have a firm plan so far and seem to be thinking long term. Draft will be telling this year about what the McD plan is. How he fills the roster out.
I have some faith in Whaley that he does offer players up to his Coaches preferences. Let's see what he does to shape the team. and whether they grab a QB and when.
If they think they can be competitive with Taylor? Then so will I. Till otherwise notified at least
The one reason i am ready to accept Howard as our first pick. Be a McD pick i think?
I have wanted an elite TE in Buffalo for so long 3rd we could be picking 5th and I would draft OJ
-
....still struggling with processing the field after 6 years does not leave me with a confident outlook that his gray matter is "re-trainable".....how do you stop his propensity to depend on his wheels as the STEADY escape route?.....should be an ADDED dimension and not THE dimension........what happens when he gets KO'ed?....."run and done"?.....may have to add on to 17 years and waiting.....stay tuned............
A more user friendly O and bigger, more physical playmakers thats how AFL
Fair post crusher
very good reading for me and some thoughts worth digesting over here.
Thanks for the posting !
Crusher catches allot of grief for being honest, good poster.
Nice post Foxx...
-
I bet my bottom dollar McD is not going to tank. I also do not see a 3-13 season.
no, IMO, they contend regardless of schedule and finish above .500, 10-6 and a wildcard.
tank talk is so weak.
i don't know what the final record is going to be, but i don't think tanking is the objective.
I agree,
McDermott is banking his young NFL HC career on Taylor,
tanking is not in the plans...
-
The term "bridge QB" gets thrown around on this site a lot as though it were a given. I don't believe it is. Certainly, Tyrod doesn't believe he is a bridge, and McD may not either. But, even if he is, there are plenty of reasons to pay for him, over Foles (who is guaranteed $7mil in Philly, btw) beyond McD's feelings (I'm not sure what that even means?). Honestly, I think we're paying him what he's worth, and I do think he gives us a better chance of winning than any of the other realistic options that were out there.
I'm not even sure if I'm in a minority, or majority in this, but, I would rather spend the 2017 season watching the Bills once again go 8-8, than, say, 4-12. Or, 7-9, for that matter. To be clear, I'm not saying that Foles would lose us that many games. I'm just saying that I want to spend as many Sundays watching the Bills win as possible. TT gives us the best chance, at this time, IMHO.
Good post Rocky
-
Something else I want to say about Tyrod Taylor and the organizations decision to keep Taylor in Buffalo.
It would have been real easy for both sides to call it quits the way I see it.
Mutual loyalty and respect made the difference in my humble opinion.
I'm a Billiever...
-
Good for you if you believe that. Who am I to tell you that you shouldn't?
We should all believe what we want to. Some choose to look at facts and base their beliefs on that, and others believe blindly or out of pure emotion.
Whatever the reason...believe in what you wish to.
And contrary to some posters here, I would welcome a scenario like the one you envision. I just don't believe in it.
thanks for saying
-
Ice Bowl is a female just FYI
hahaha, good memory my friend,
touche
Tyrod Taylor's Highlights
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
He's not originally from West Valley, NY is he?