SouthNYfan

I'm usually not joyous about it

I would sh*t my pants with joy if this happened

He crossed the plane of the end zone before he popped it up into the air anyway, so it wouldn't have been a fumble even if he lost it

If he was caught smoking, then the NFL should immediately test him, since you know, they suspend players for it constantly.

Exactly. I'm not a Tyrod fan. I think he's a great athlete, but just isn't a guy who can consistently win against better teams, and if your running game/defense have poor days, he's really not gonna win it for you with his arm. I think he's terrible in a sense that he very predictable with what you're going to get, which is low turnovers, low scoring, very little risks taken, has peaked within his skill set, and it's pretty boring and frustrating for me to watch. There are those who agree, those who disagree, and that's fine. As you said, it only takes 1. I actually think he'd be a decent bridge QB for whoever drafts Jackson, only because they should be running similar playbooks to maximize they're skillsets. I could also see Houston wanting him as a backup to Watson, or a bridge starter to give Watson more time to not rush back, but I'm not sure tyrod would accept that. I think the biggest factor is "what situation will tyrod accept" He may try to hold out for a situation where he is the definite starter, which who knows, somebody might give him, as you said, it only takes one team to think they can make it work.

This. Unless they get a godfather offer, the keep him as insurance for a bit.

#endthread

Having Alex Smith as your QB is like being pecked to death slowly by a duck. Having Tyrod is like being pecked to death by a baby duck.

Drew was obviously the best career wise, which I think skews the perception of him as a bill, and had probably the best single season of the drought. Then one average season and one poor one. That's why I went with him. A case could also be made for Fitz, I think they're a coinflip. I thought we should have kept drew though

I love deion only because he is zero f*cks given with anything he says. Irving too. I always enjoyed their arrogance, it made them fun to hate, kind of like a WWF villain. Plus they have great suits lolol

Definitely. The man was a legit monster. Loved watching him. The MCL was really what wrecked him. Severe MCL and LCL injuries kill side to side agility/cutting ability

I will say that Davis was a beast. He was what happens when you put a very good to great player into a "plug and play" system (portis too)

Hmmm... This decade, so you want do 2001-2012 drafts? I'll do first and second round RBS who remained with the team that drafted them for 5 productive years. That will include the 5 year rule of 2012-2017. (We cannot include 13-17 drafts because they haven't been in the NFL 5 years) 2001: -Ladanian Tomlinson (1) -Deuce McAllister (1) 2002: -Clinton portis (2) I'm including him because he was traded for champ Bailey and then was productive, as was Baily 2004: -Steven Jackson (1) 2006: -Reggie bush (1) giving it to him bc he was a big part of their offense, even if it wasn't all rushing -Maurice Jones drew (2) 2007: -AP (1) 2008: -Jonathan Stewart (2) 2009: -shady (2) 2011: -mark Ingram (1) That's all that fit your criteria (Not making any conclusions)

We agree on something Kirby!! Ricky Williams was first round too. He was amazing, just decided to go be a pothead and travel the world in his prime. Chris Johnson Jonathan Stewart Steven Jackson Larry Johnson Tomlinson Michael Bennett Jamal Lewis Shaun Alexander Edge Fred Taylor All those guys were studs in the first round, some taken early too (#1-5) There's a bunch of busts too, but I'm with you Kirby you can def get an elite back that can help carry a team.

Which is exactly what I've been saying Kirby said it's impossible to argue so he's right I'm not going to bother

Once again I will say this. He didn't have Marino beat for stats, he has had a better defense and running game than Marino. Era inflation taken into account he doesn't have Marino beat for stats. They were publicly caught cheating twice. Spygate wasn't about video taping a single Rams practice, there were multiple incidents. That's the issue. I cannot give a guy the goat title when he's part of a documented cheating regime. You can. That's fair. Let's agree to disagree.

I like how you keep saying "it's impossible to argue" when it's clearly not impossible. -the numbers don't mean much compared to some of the older guys when you adjust for era... Marino is the stat king if you want to go that route -it's a fact that they were caught cheating publicly on 2 occasions. That's a fact. Those are things that I use to refer him being the goat, so no, it's not "impossible" to argue

I hear the Lions just hired a great defensive coordinator as their HC Maybe they could trade Stafford to the bills and Brady could go to Detroit and ride that defense

Losing hightower was a huge blow to their defense too

This argument rages with Jordan vs LeBron in the NBA as well LeBron is 3-5 in the finals vs 6-0 for Jordan Jordan started his career with 3 straight first round exits, then the next 3 years he lost to the Pistons (second round, then twice in the East conf finals) LeBron has never lost in the first round These are just objective stats, just to go along with your point. I think if Brady was 3-5 instead of 5-3 you could knock him more, like I said before, he'd be my #1 if it wasn't for the cheating.

The cheating isn't weak. They were CAUGHT and punished by the NFL on two separate occasions multiple years apart. That's not a weak excuse. The ref bias is clear and obvious in many crucial situations. Does Brady make some big time throws? Yep. Some of the best I've ever seen. My argument is not that he isn't an excellent QB, absolutely HoF. I don't think he's the GOAT based on my stated criteria. Again, it's all opinion and splitting hairs at this point of greatness. I think in the end, as I said earlier, comparing generations/eras is tough due to rule changes. If I made a list, without any particular order, consisting of: Brady Montana Young Favre Elway Kelly Rodgers Marino Manning Rodgers (Not saying thats my top 10, just 10 greats I thought of) Would anybody complain if they had ANY of those QBs locked up in their prime? I don't think so. I think there's a lot of arguments to be made for who the goat is, and it all depends on what you value. Just rings? Performance in big games? Performance over a career? How bad was the rest of the team? What about the coach? There's a lot that can be debated. In the end it's splitting hairs.

Why didn't other teams have belichick? Why didn't other teams get caught cheating? Why don't other teams receive obvious ref bias?

Very fair. I drop Brady a few pegs because of the cheating (caught twice, how many times not?), all the questionable calls the pats get, and the belichick /stacked team connection (this knocks Montana a bit too) I honestly think that it's impossible to address comparing QBs from different eras due to game/rule changes, as well as conditioning/training/medical techniques that help prolong careers. Look at basketball, Wilt Chamberlain was an athletic freak, and very talented at bball, but he was also almost always the biggest guy out there, they had different goal tending and defensive rules, and they used to lob inbounds over the backboard to him (not legal now), so it's impossible. Jordan didn't have to face the zone defenses LeBron does, LeBron doesn't have to face the hand checking on defense Jordan did. In football, there are rule changes every year, mostly that benefit offensive players/QBs. That's why there are so many 4000+ and 5000+ yard seasons now. I put Manning up top because he was basically the offensive coordinator and QB at the same time. He called his own plays and audibles constantly. Marino had a trash team forever, the dude was legit, I couldn't imagine the numbers he'd put up today, but I think he was the best ever, again, personal opinion.

Marino Montana Manning That's my top3 After that it gets muddy to me

Next year's Madden cover should be Brady dropping the crucial catch