GoBills808

But nowhere does it say tossing the ball at the ref fulfills the first obligation...you can clearly either fall to the ground, or kneel. If someone catches a pass in the field of play and then tosses the ball at the nearest ref I don't think anyone is going to say he gave himself up.

Mmm disagree but whatevs

Dunno...

I interpret it as the contact needs to be forcible, not whether it was intentional. IMO the wording on the blindside blocking is ambiguous in a way that the rules governing the kickoff play aren't. But I suppose ambiguity is in the eye of the beholder lol

Disagree. The blindside rule has ambiguity baked into it re: wording ('forcible' is the standard) and in that sense is somewhat open to interpretation. The kickoff rules don't offer similar leeway, they're very cut and dried as to what constitutes giving yourself up as a runner after you catch the kick.

'Let's rule this a touchdown, as common sense clearly indicates his intent to cross the goal line with the ball'

Heck, John Brown didn't intend to hop out of bounds before getting two feet down!

I honestly cannot think of another time. Maybe there have been and I just missed them. As you say, what followed immediately after is the real issue. I doubt it. Too similar to the poison call on punt return

It's very, very obvious in this case. It's not that the 'common sense' argument is so hard to comprehend, it's that the rule is so very clear.

Bump

Clear intentions are a dime a dozen! Give me an obscure-intentioned MFer who knows the rules any day. He won't cost you games via stupidity.

Sort of similar to how intentional grounding in the endzone is a safety

Foul on offense in the endzone is a safety

Thing is, tho...they lined up Singletary wide also. So he got a DB. The slot was McKenzie who had the mismatch...but he just ran a curl underneath.

I believe the point is that once the ball hits the ground it's considered an illegal forward pass, and thus a deadball penalty, and thus a safety due to it occurring in the endzone.

If someone can find me just ONE example of a kickoff returner making the safe signal, catching the ball, and then handing it to the ref WITHOUT kneeling first I will never speak of this again.

Sorry I keep jumping around lmao

I think technically it should be written like this: (e) (i)when a runner is out of bounds, or (ii)declares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and making no effort to advance

Here are the new kickoff rules. They're not relevant to this discussion. https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/kickoff-rules/

He didn't signal fair catch. This is the point. Fair catch is a legally defined motion, arm waving above head. He would have absolutely been within his right to take a few steps and then start running, as evidenced by Greg Olsen who saw Devin Hester do the exact thing:

AND no desire to advance

Greg Olsen thinks so

If he hadn't caught it I agree. If he let's it bounce in endzone it's deadball on the spot. But once he catches it he has to down it himself because it's live and he's a runner at that point. And safe signal isn't recognized as of now by the league as a way of giving yourself up.

Just for argument's sake...I just think it's a good discussion. Once you catch a kickoff, you have the option to return it or down it in the endzone. Downing the ball requires a knee (or other body part) on the ground, or a fair catch signal. Those are the only acceptable ways to down a caught kickoff. The guy didn't do either. Instead he gave airplane arms, took a couple steps forward and tossed the ball toward the ref.

They didn't get the call right. He knee never hit the ground.