shoshin

2 people died in the Netherlands yesterday. When we get down to the population-adjusted equivalent of 30 deaths per day in the US, we can stop wearing masks too. Yesterday 1500 Americans died so we have a ways to go.

And what Trump retweeted quoted the demon-alien doctor, so no matter what, that doc was his source. Trump is not intellectually rigorous and refuses to engage those who are. He just found a thing on Twitter and retweeted it, which is what counts for intellectual rigor these days, and is even worse than just googling up something that agrees with your opinion.

Your solution is not to believe numbers? Any day can have some catch-up deaths In a state (TX yesterday). Today’s total is today’s total. The numbers over time tell a story.

That’s not logical. Any day could have a few catch-up deaths but it’s still the number reported today. Today’s total is tough.

That discussion isn't actually part of this thread that I've seen--but maybe it's on other parts of this site. I keep raising that our president quoted a tweet that highlighted the demon-seed alien DNA "doctor." If people want to view kooky stuff, have at it. Seems like Twitter is all about finding your echo chamber.

The HCQ discussion is ongoing. So far here, I only see people talking about how our president should not be quoting doctors who think that demon-seed causes disease as a credible source in the middle of a pandemic. Is that really too much to ask? Are your expectations for Trump that low?

Plenty of other places to go. OTW's discussion is much more informative. This place has more posts but 80% are just people throwing insults.

I am on board that the govt is run by lizard people.

Who's silencing debate? Seems like everyone is getting their say. My critique is that my president cited a witch doctor as a source of good medical advice, and that his tweeting something like that shows a lack of mental and leadership discipline. If I cited a witch doctor, I assume you'd critique the source, as well you should. Jesus, you can't even cite Dr. Fauci here without people attacking him as a bad source. He's the president. Perhaps a measured and thoughtful approach to a pandemic is in order, no?

The POTUS shouldn't knee jerk out tweets about a pandemic. Whether he vets them himself or discusses his announcements with others before taking them, I am not looking for my POTUS to be an unfiltered Twitter-reguritator. If he decides to be an unfiltered retweeter, then the consequence is of re-Tweeting the devil-***** lady as credible source is that he gets to be questioned about it (And then he can stomp his feet and run out of press briefings--taking no responsibility for his stupidity). This too. Your defense of the president is that we should accept idiocy? America weeps.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/509344-bill-gates-benefits-almost-always-outweigh-the-costs-for-younger-students-to

CDC > woman who believes that sex with demons causes disease Do you believe the opposite? The CDC recommends schools should be open. Do you question that?

Everyone is not POTUS. Quoting a woman who believes that alien ***** and sex with demons makes us crazy shows a lack of mental and leadership discipline you might look for in the President of the United States. If you're going to wade into a scientific debate, sources matter. Trump does not care though because he thinks he's right. Back to lack of mental discipline.

Fauci, no "h." Fauci has a pretty impressive resume in infectious disease. Wiki: Anthony Stephen Fauci ( /ˈfaʊtʃi/; born December 24, 1940) is an American physician and immunologist who has served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) since 1984. Since January 2020, he has been one of the lead members of the Trump administration's White House Coronavirus Task Force addressing the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States. Fauci is one of the world's leading experts on infectious diseases, and during the early stages of the pandemic The New Yorker and The New York Times described Fauci as one of the most trusted medical figures in the United States.[1][2][3][4] As a physician with the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Fauci has served American public health in various capacities for over 50 years, and has been an advisor to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan.[3] He has made contributions to HIV/AIDS research and other immunodeficiency diseases, both as a scientist and as the head of the NIAID at the NIH.[5] From 1983 to 2002, Fauci was one of the world's most-cited scientists in scientific journals.[5]

Those are some of her more rational beliefs. She also believes that some medical conditions are caused by having sex with demons. Are we sure Trump doesn't post here?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ Not that hard to find.

More non-specific stuff. I am almost entirely against the liberal legislative/mandate approach to this virus. You maybe don't get how to make a case. I forgive you: This place is built for slinging whatever you want to say. You're dropping most of your earlier empty assertions though, which shows growth. I thought Sweden was a bad country to compare to the US in terms of Covid response. You disagreed. I guess that really got to you. Sorry. That's the only specific thing you brought up 4 posts after saying I spread falsehoods all over the board: That I thought comparing a small largely homogenous country to a diverse country with many cities in many states was not a good basis for comparison. You carried this argument over a single comparison from 6 weeks ago all the way through until today. Be like Elsa, Let it go. With your only support being our argument over Sweden, you maybe now see how hyperbole and calling people names adds little worthwhile content to the board. More too, though my guess is the Rs are just trying to get something for the money.

I post both national and state data. I'm not in a panic. You said I presented falsehoods. Let's go to the post, not this vagueness. That's the NY Times, not me. This is all a shift: If you want to call me names, that's your prerogative but it's not raising the dialog here. If you want to talk data, let's be specific and hash it out.

Absolutely--the ignorance people have about the economic impact of shutdowns (not just on resources, but mental health) is surprising. In the US, I have an extremely bright friend who is more or less refusing to leave the house. I sent him a photo a few days ago of a dinner I was having in a place that holds meaning (not a restaurant, but place doesn't matter). His first response: "I'm uncomfortable with the lack of social distancing." I was with my brother and parents in the photo. He's privileged enough that he can work from home but he somehow thinks it's OK to stay there until a vaccine comes. He's a lifelong Republican (anti-Trump though) so he's against social nets and government intervention--he's just generally afraid of the virus. I know we will all come out of the "fear-zone" around the virus at different rates but here is a guy who's for sure suffering by absence of his normal human interaction. One anecdote isn't data but the data is starting to come now too. Whether it's mental health or economic pain, we've never been more linked in the world. We rise together, we suffer together. It's heartening but it requires more compassion. https://www.wsj.com/articles/lonely-girls-how-the-pandemic-has-deepened-the-isolation-of-adolescents-11595937600?mod=hp_lead_pos10 Behind a paywall but:

That's a huge and sad number. I wonder how they arrived at that but it's not a surprise that there's a downstream effect. What we can bear as Americans is a lot more than other countries. The economic/societal links and dependencies from Bill Gates to a family in Africa have never been as strong as they are now.

What falsehood would you like to discuss. I can’t talk to your unprovoked and bald attack unless you provide a data point to discuss. Or do you think we make progress by hurling insults at each other? Is that your idea of productive discourse and community? That’s a rhetorical question. I expect it will still hit a few more population centers and then we will see what happens in the fall when schools return. Then get another possible inflection point at what the traditional flu season brings. I am hopeful we don’t see much in the way of problems and expect the media to amplify some teacher or student deaths when the happen. Seems easy to predict. Media is after eyeballs.

Is that right? (1) I am not that worked up over case counts (not the mainstream media opinion) (2) We should have been in lockdown early except for maybe 2 weeks to get ready and NYC a little longer (not the mainstream media opinion) (3) We should be just protecting the vulnerable and taking other reasonable measures: stadium settings maybe minimized, encouraging mask wearing, work from home if do-able (not the mainstream media opinion) (4) Cases/deaths will almost certainly not return to an area once it gets smoked (not the mainstream media opinion) (5) Schools should be open this fall with only minimal distancing measures that should be lifted quickly if things go well (not the mainstream media opinion) I believe in vaccines and not that Fauci/Gates created Covid-19. You tell everyone you are right all the time but you're not and when called on it, as I have had to do a few times, you turn extra bitter. You post some good numbers. Is being a dick is important for your board standing or something?

The virus is coming. The feds could do better. To think otherwise is rather naive but it's lead to us being the only country with people proudly anti-mask. Japan may get a massive uptick. Still pretty early. That could happen if we all go hang out in stadiums for a month too. There clearly are many ways to deal with the virus. There are a lot of people celebrating a "look I told it was coming for those places" moments in citing that it got to Japan/Australia. But those places bought as much time as they could and their "spikes" will result in fewer deaths per capita and may yet also result in fewer cases per capita too. So the urgency to rush into getting it (let's not wear masks!) and getting through the pain is pretty misguided. I'm not saying you're this callous but it's definitely a vibe here that we should ignore masks and let this thing run rampant until we burn it out.

We see what happens with inadequate testing, rapid reopening, social distancing/mask skepticism, and minimal contact tracing. Congratulations: With all of those things, cases went up and we did not get on top of things. The feds didn't unite the country in a plan, states decided not to follow the CDC guidelines, and we now have little choice but to just let it run. Good "plan." Yes. A united effort would have made things much better. The division sowed around this disease was largely avoidable. You start a lot of sentences taking credit for pretty obvious statements. You also take credit for making predictions you didn't actually make, as I quoted a few weeks ago. Humility is OK in a pandemic, though I know muscling up on a message board, especially this one, is the preferred posture. I can do it too but what's the point except to make yourself feel better.

The other country in the world with a fierce anti-mask resistance is ___________. Minimum recommended vs currently recommended. And who cares? We clearly are underdelivering on testing. After this round of people die off, I don't think we will see another giant surge in the US unless: (1) There's some unpredicted change in the virus and people's resistance; or (2) The reopening of schools and weather in the fall somehow amplifies spread. The silicon valley and Seattle zones have yet to get smashed but those would seem to be the only areas not yet really hit hard. We will have timely and adequate testing once the worst of this is over. That should help with smaller outbreaks and allow us to finally get on top of this. Once we have rapid-result testing and adequate tracking, our cases *should* accelerate downwards.