Ozymandius

It was fair for Tiki to call those guys out and they ARE idiots for not interviewing anyone on the Giants before assuming a distraction. At the same time, once Tiki becomes one of the talking heads, he's going to find himself having pressure to fill airtime and column space with opinions. Here's hoping he's not hypocritical and turns out to be like these dumbarses.

Completely serious. Just look at the schedule. Also, remember, things are never as good as you think they are, and things are never as bad as well. The Bills don't really suck as much as they've shown the past three games. The shuffling of the o-line should help. The bye week will help. They'll get it together. I hope.

What draft analysis? If you thought I was trying to analyze the Bills draft pick by pick when this board had already gone through that months ago, then you're a really bad reader. My original post in this thread was just saying that the jury is still out on this draft (i.e. don't call it a good draft yet). For some reason you have a problem with that? Then the rest of my posts just dealt with hypotheticals in order to convey my idea of getting value from a draft. You're welcome to think that, and I stand by everything I've said as well. Drafts have to be analyzed in the context of team needs and how to properly build a team which ties into value gained. Yawn. I thought you were a good poster, Dibs, and then I see this trite try at an insult. Look, there are plenty of folks who watch college football religiously and have opinions on players. I just happen to be one of them. I get some right, I get some wrong, but it's part of how I have fun being a fan. So don't be a dick just because I have opinions. I must be doing something right, though, since you immediately put "very good" by Whitner's name and "good" by Simpson's just because I complimented them, as if my word were God's. Or is that your own opinion? Wait, you're not allowed to have one since you're not paid to evaluate football players (as if it were rocket science). LOL. Do you have pictures of me outside my window as well? Honestly, I remember being high on Justice and thinking the Bills would draft Ngata after they brought him in for a workout, but I'm pretty sure you're either exaggerating or taking things out of context. If I guaranteed it, was it a joke? Also, when do I like to take showers? Since you obviously have all my comments memorized better than me, please try to recite the ones I got right as well. I know when the Bills traded up into the first, I called McCargo. I remember saying Whitner and Simpson were going to be good players and I was concerned about McCargo's injury history. Dude, you scare me. Leave me alone.

About NC State, the fourth guy on that vaunted defensive line was often Tank Tyler, who is probably going to be a first or second round pick this year. So yeah, McCargo was definitely surrounded by talented players. McCargo himself had a nice first step, though, and that's why he was drafted in round 1. But yeah, Mangold was the much safer pick.

I think the thing to keep in mind is not to get caught up in numbers, as in we got 2 good players out of this draft so that's good, or X number of players are still on the roster, etc. What you have to look at is IMPACT. Let's say, hypothetically, Whitner and Simpson become All-pro players and the rest of our draft is crap. Let's also say that Jay Cutler becomes an All-pro and the rest of Denver's draft is crap. 2 > 1, so the Bills had a better draft, right? Uh, no. Under that scenario, Denver had a much better draft; most GMs would trade 10 pro bowl safeties for 1 pro bowl QB, as they should. Bottom line, football teams should be built inside out, and we need to get line help from this draft. McCargo really, really needs to pan out and not be a waste of salary cap. And if he doesn't pan out, then we gotta hope the backend of the draft surprises.

True, I shouldn't say we when I mean I. I predicted immediately after the draft that Whitner and Simpson would be good players, McCargo would be an underachiever with injury problems, and Youboty would disappoint. I'm neither right nor wrong about those yet, of course... I'm just on track. My expectations aren't high. I stand by them. With the number of picks the Bills began with, drafting in the positions they did, and considering the deep draft and the Bills' lack of quality linemen, if ALL they get out of this draft were two good safeties, the draft was a disaster. A disaster. They need line help out of this draft. I repeat: Either McCargo has to come through and be a difference maker since he was a first rounder, and/or the backend of the draft (Merz/Penny) has to surprise greatly (since usually backends of drafts get cut or become backups). Look, here's the deal. Look back at the entire draft in three years, and you're going to find that the majority of the teams will have gotten more value from the draft than just two good safeties. Hopefully the Bills are one of those teams. And I would be smiling. Nowhere have I done that. In all the instances where I've said we could've taken this guy instead, I had predicted that guy to be good even before the draft, and people who follow the draft closely would know them well. I mean, Davin Joseph? Mangold? I mean, these were studs, and everybody knew it. It was easy without hindsight, too, to know that Davin Joseph and Nick Mangold would be good.

If you were REALLY optimistic, you would've said "with the 32nd pick of the 200_" draft instead of "20__"

Unfortunately, I think the Bills will get 4-5 wins in the second half of the season. With such an easy schedule, they've got to REALLY suck, and in all phases, to finish high enough to draft one of those players.

The question wasn't asking that. It was just asking who people wanted as the Bills QB. Of the players listed, only Pennington would probably make a "huge difference" right now but that's expected since he's a vet. Others on the list either suck (KCollins) or are too young (Cutler, Leinart, etc). But that's irrelevant as to who folks might prefer to be the QB. Pretty sure most folks here saw Leinart play in college as well. I actually disagree that Leinart would be better than JP in Buffalo, mainly because of the weather factor. But as far as who will be the better QB, period, yeah, I think Leinart will be. But if that's the case, it's really no fault of JP's. Leinart is SUPPOSED to be better. He was drafted higher into a pretty good situation for him, and he played for a national champion at a high profile program in a pro-style offense in college, so he's used to expectations and pressure. Also, Arizona has a lot of talent even if their record hasn't reflected it yet; Denny Green will probably get fired, but he's going to leave behind the perfect coaching situation for someone else.

Whether 2006 was a good draft is still very much in question. We knew Whitner would be good (you would hope so, a top 10 safety), we knew Ko Simpson would be good (well, he's struggling a bit now, but he'll come around, I think)... the question marks were McCargo and Youboty. McCargo especially needs to come through as a first rounder. Kyle Williams has been a surprise but McCargo needs to be a difference maker and/or the backend of the draft (Pennington/Merz) have to surprise greatly for 2006 to be a good draft. Remember, this was a deep, talented draft with the Bills having a high pick in each round, and 10 overall to begin with. To only get 2 good safeties out of this draft would be a funking disaster.

Did Marv really confirm that? I thought it was only reported from the Denver side. But man, if true... here's what we could've done. 1.15 Davin Joseph 1.26 Nick Mangold 2.29 Charles Spencer (injured now, but a great prospect) 3.6 Ashton Youboty 4.8 Ko Simpson 5.1 Kyle Williams 5.8 DE Mark Anderson / DT Anthony Montgomery (now with no need for Brad Butler) 6.9 Keith Ellison 7.8 DT Rodrique Wright (now with no need for Pennington) 7.40 Marques Colston (now with no need for Merz... cheating here, of course, since nobody knew about Colston... but all the other "replacements" people knew about it) Offensive line: Peters-Gandy-Mangold-Joseph-Spencer That line pretty much dominates physically for the next decade. JP looks much better. Willis rushes for 1800 next season. Sigh.

I think people are impatient with JP because they didn't want to wait for him to develop after having gone through the RJ saga. It was stupid to even draft JP in the first place. Why didn't they just bring in a veteran QB instead -- why make the fans wait on another project? And just because Bledsoe sucked doesn't mean that savvy QBs like Brad Johnson weren't available that you could win with. If a young QB was needed that badly, the Bills should've at least built an offensive line and defense first so that he could be developed properly ala Roethlisberger and Rivers. The Bills did things so assbackwards that it just pi$$es people off. Why the hell do we have to wait on this mistake prone QB to develop? I hate waiting, especially since there's no guarantee he'll pan out anyway. Shouldn't they have put this strategy up to a vote with the fans before they went ahead and did it? Seriously, after RJ, would ANYONE have voted for the Bills to use a first round draft pick on a SoCal QB who played on a losing team in college, got sacked a lot, wasn't very accurate and bore a bit of a physical resemblance to RJ? I would have rather seen them build other parts of the team and bring in a vet to win instead. And about JP himself. My honest feeling about him is that his ceiling is Jake Plummer. All my instincts while watching him play tell me this. What is the impact if I'm right? It means, provided Marv can hit on some draft picks or free agents that improve the lines (and Marv has yet to show this ability), the Bills will probably improve over the next few years and perhaps even make the playoffs with JP at the helm. If Marv does a good job drafting and signing free agents (again, huge if) several years in a row, they may even become perennial playoff contenders with JP. But the season will always end in a loss because JP will make mistakes in crucial moments just like Jake Plummer does. Denver has a great team this year (and last year as well), and they have NO SHOT at winning the Super Bowl because Plummer is their QB. That's who JP reminds me of. A guy who is a double threat with his arm and his legs but who never really has total command of what he's doing and will never inspire confidence in his teammates or fans watching him, a guy who the opposition can "wait out" on to make a crucial mistake to lose the game. Anyway, the Bills are so far away from where Denver is that I can't really complain if that's how things play out. Making the playoffs and losing is still far better than being a sh!tty team.

I think the runblocking improves. Pennington is supposed to be a strong dude and I think Gandy is stronger than Reyes.

You can still watch a young team try to improve. It doesn't beat watching a playoff team but it's something.

The Bills' second half schedule is so charmin soft that I expect Losman to improve his play significantly. Add to that, young teams like the Bills almost always regroup and get better after a bye. I fully expect the Bills to extract at least 4 more wins from their schedule this season (which pushes them way out of Joe Thomas / Calvin Johnson range). But if they don't, and if JP doesn't improve, I hope the Bills replace him in the offseason or at least bring in major competition for the job.

Actually, if Gandy plays well at LG, I'd like to see him resigned this offseason. He's still under 30 and would have experience at tackle and guard and appears to be durable. That kind of versatility is valuable. I certainly prefer him at guard over Reyes. Preston is quite terrible. He was drafted about 4 rounds earlier than he should've been. I would rather see Merz in there before him.

Yep. This is the perfect time to try something like this. Let's see what we have in Pennington and in Peters at LT. The season is shot anyway, you might as well find out as much about your young players as you can. It's the same logic as keeping JP in as starter no matter what. We just gotta know as much as possible what we got to help with offseason decisions. Honestly, this move of switching up the OL has me excited as a fan again about the season. Imagine if Peters excels (very possible) at LT and Pennington can handle RT (unlikely, but possible).

Gandy is much more likely to be a competent guard than Reyes. I like this move. If everything pans out, the need for an LT is gone and gives the Bills more flexibility in offseason moves. I think Peters will be fine there. As for RT, I never saw Pennington play in college but I did see Butler and it doesn't surprise me that a 7th rounder is beating out Butler for a job.

Good post, I-90. I don't give up on Losman, but the Brees situation is entirely different. Here's what I said in another thread: JP and Brees are completely different types of QBs and aren't really comparable either. Brees fell to 32 because while he was a smart, accurate QB with all the instincts and came from a winning Big 10 school, people wondered whether he had the physical tools to play in the league. JP was drafted at 22 because while he had all the physical tools in place, he came from a losing mid-major program and people wondered about his accuracy and whether he could put it together mentally (and at the time, people also wondered whether he was a cancer). I don't take any comfort in Brees' eventual success because the reasons why JP was drafted low and why Brees was drafted low were completely different.

Thanks for the scouting report on Quinn. I probably haven't watched nearly as many ND games as you but my thoughts are similar. He's hardly the most pinpoint QB out there and I think his stock could plummet some by the time April rolls around. The most accurate QB I've seen this year is actually a kid from Hawaii named Colt Brennan. He's only a junior but could possibly declare. If he doesn't and stays another year, I'd look for him to possibly be a top 15 pick in the 2008 draft.

Brady Quinn sucks, dude. Okay, maybe that's harsh. But he's not worth a first rounder. He's not all that accurate and he doesn't have that strong an arm. If he fell to the second round, maybe, but if you spend a first rounder on a QB, you want everything in place. Besides, we have to build the infrastructure first and I doubt the Bills will be in position to draft him anyway.

The stupidest thing the Bills could do is draft a QB in the first round this year. Build the line first. Get a good #2 receiver. Get a good TE. Build the infrastructure that is needed for a young QB to succeed before you bring in the young QB. Don't put cart before horse.

You can't frame the question that way since Harris is a proven stud while Brick is only a rookie. I prefer a first round OT over DT because first round OTs pan out at a higher rate than first round DTs. Just avoid the guys with weight problems (Mike Williams, Leonard Davis) and you're very likely to end up with a good player.

Neither. I'd rather have Davin Joseph / Drew Brees.

Nope - not calling for their jobs since they deserve a chance to fail over two or three seasons. Just re-pointing out that we didn't exactly hire one person that inspires confidence. I wouldn't mind if they rewound the tape and chose over.