Buffalo86

What time is it? Why, it's five minutes to Johnny Football time!

I believe the game room was installed under Whaley's direction, during Marrone's brief tenure. I imagine Whaley had more than a few laughs at Marrone's expense on that one.

FTR, not once did I dare refer to it as a "list". Shame on you for calling it an "ordered row of names".

I don't think they'd wait that long to start the process again if things aren't working out. Compared to past regimes, this one seems much quicker to recognize their mistakes & move on.

Slightly on-subject, the Packers had enough concerns about Aaron Rodgers that they drafted Brian Brohm in the 2nd after Rodgers learned for 3 years. Check out Hoge & McShay giving the nod to Brohm in the Packers' QB competition that never was:

I don't remember noticing much of a dropoff when Groy filled in for Wood, but it's quite possible that we overrated Wood.

I do believe a QB who's ruined by starting too soon probably wasn't going to amount to much anyway. At the same time, I can't think of any QBs who were ruined by NOT starting in year one. Would Losman, Brohm, and Locker have been stars, if only they'd started during their rookie seasons? It seems pretty unlikely.

Alrighty then. Not really. Could you look at Jamarcus Russell and say he was ruined too soon? If that's your criteria for message board discussion, you should start a "How many games did the Bills win last season?" thread. Everything else is pretty much off limits.

Below are the 40 39 37 QBs from 2004-2016 who were drafted in the first or second round & started during their rookie year. Were any of them ruined by starting too soon? Jared Goff Carson Wentz Paxton Lynch Jameis Winston Marcus Mariota Blake Bortles Johnny Manziel Teddy Bridgewater Derek Carr EJ Manuel Geno Smith Andrew Luck RGIII Ryan Tannehill Brandon Weeden Cam Newton Blaine Gabbert Christian Ponder Andy Dalton Colin Kaepernick Sam Bradford Jimmy Clausen Matthew Stafford Mark Sanchez Josh Freeman Matt Ryan Joe Flacco JaMarcus Russell John Beck Vince Young Matt Leinart Jay Cutler Tarvaris Jackson Alex Smith Jason Campbell Eli Manning Ben Roethlisberger

It's pretty clear the Bills have ruined Josh Allen by not starting him soon enough.

I was thinking the very same. Do you think we still have a shot? We have to hurry before his stock goes any higher.

That would give him more time to work on his musical. It's all hips and nips!

Rickety Cricket?

Apologies for the length of this, but someone did an analysis of QBs who completed 58.5% or less of their passes during their last full college season. Below is the list of all QBs drafted 2002-2014 who met this criteria. I hope the Bills hit it big with Allen, but this list is pretty scary: Year of Draft QB College Final Year Completion Percentage Draft Result 2014 Logan Thomas Virginia Tech 56.5% R4, P120- Arizona Went 1-for-9 with Arizona in 2014 before being released at the end of the 2015 preseason after just 1 season 2013 BJ Daniels South Florida 56.9% R7, P237- San Francisco Never made the active roster with the 49ers. Switched to WR in 2015 2012 Ryan Lindley San Diego State 53% R6, P185- Arizona Finished career with 3 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. Threw 0 touchdowns and 7 interceptions his rookie season. Currently in the CFL with the Ottawa RedBlacks 2011 Jake Locker Washington 55.4% R1, P8- Tennessee Retired after suffering numerous injuries. Finished with just 27 touchdown passes in 4 seasons, and never had a completion percentage above 61% in any season. Titans go 9-14 under Locker 2011 Nathan Enderle Idaho 56.7% R5, P160- Chicago Never threw a pass in the NFL. Cut after 1 season with the Bears 2010 Jonathan Crompton Tennessee 58.3% R5, P168- San Diego Never made an active roster at the NFL level, and was cut after the 2010 preseason by the Chargers 2010 Rusty Smith Florida Atlantic 57.3% R6, P176- Tennessee Finished his career with 0 touchdown passes and 4 interceptions. Lone start in his career was a 20-0 shutout to the Texans 2008 Chad Henne Michigan 58.3% R2, P57- Miami Finished 4-year career with the Dolphins with 31 touchdowns and 37 interceptions. Currently is the backup on the Jaguars 2008 Kevin O’Connell San Diego State 58.5% R3, P94- New England Threw a grand total of 6 passes during his NFL career for 23 yards 2008 Matt Flynn LSU 56.3% R7, P209- Green Bay One of the few on this list to work out, but this is speaking strictly as a value pick in the 7th round for a backup QB. Highlight of career- throwing for 480 yards and 6 touchdowns in the 2011 season finale against Detroit 2007 Isaiah Stanback Washington 53.4% R4, P103- Dallas Converted to WR. Never threw a pass in the NFL 2006 Reggie McNeal Texas A&M 53.2% R6, P193- Cincinnati Converted to WR. Never threw a pass in the NFL 2006 DJ Shockley Georgia 55.8% R7, P223- Atlanta Never threw an NFL pass. Only passes in professional football came as a member of the Omaha Nighthawks in 2010 of the UFL, where he went 2-for-5 with an interception 2004 Luke McCown Louisiana Tech 56.9% R4, P106- Cleveland Played 1 season with the Browns before being traded in 2005. Threw 4 touchdowns and 7 interceptions, failing to win a game in any of his 4 starts 2004 Craig Krenzel Ohio State 55% R5, P148- Chicago Started 5 games for the Bears, throwing 3 touchdowns and 6 interceptions. Cut by the Bears in 2005 2004 Jim Sorgi Wisconsin 56.5% R6, P193- Indianapolis Never started an NFL game (in fairness to Sorgi, Peyton Manning was the QB ahead of him on the depth chart) 2004 Cody Pickett Washington 56.6% R7, P217- San Francisco Started 2 games for the 49ers in 2 seasons, throwing 0 touchdowns and 4 interceptions. Traded to the Texans in 2006 2004 Casey Bramlet Wyoming 56.7% R7, P218- Cincinnati Never played a down for the Bengals, and was released in 2005 2003 Kyle Boller California 53.4% R1, P19- Baltimore Want to preface this by saying this was Boller’s highest completion percentage in college.It was the first year he threw above 50%. No idea what the Ravens were thinking here, even with the benefit of hindsight. He winds up completing just 56.9% of his passes with the Ravens, and finished with 45 touchdowns on 44 interceptions. He started double-digit games for the Ravens just once over 6 seasons 2003 Rex Grossman Florida 57.1% R1, P22- Chicago He made a Super Bowl as a starting QB… but not because of his play. He finished his 6 seasons in Chicago with 33 TDs on just 35 interceptions, and only started 8 games in a season once in 6 years with the Bears 2003 Dave Ragone Louisville 53.7% R3, P88- Houston Spent 3 years with the Texans, and never threw a touchdown pass. Played in just 2 games, where he lost both of them and completed just 50% of his passes for 135 yards 2003 Seneca Wallace Iowa State 55.1% R4, P110- Seattle This pick actually worked out for Seattle. Not a good starter, but a serviceable backup. Played 7 seasons with the Seahawks, and when called into action, threw 25 touchdowns on 14 interceptions. Never started more than 8 games in a season for any team 2003 Brian St. Pierre Boston College 58.2% R5, P163- Pittsburgh Threw just 1 pass for the Steelers in 2 seasons. Got cut at the end of the 2005 preseason 2003 Brooks Bollinger Wisconsin 53.5% R6, P200- NY Jets Played 3 seasons for the Jets, where he went just 2-7 and threw a grand total of 7 touchdown passes in 12 games over 9 starts. He was named the UFL MVP in 2009, though, so at least he’s got that going for him 2003 Gibran Hamdan Indiana 51.9% R7, P232- Washington First player of Pakistani descent to ever play in the NFL. Finished his career with just 2 passes thrown and 7 yards, playing just 1 season with Washington 2003 Ken Dorsey Miami (FL) 56.5% R7, P241- San Francisco Went just 2-8 with the 49ers and 2-11 over his career. Played 3 seasons with the 49ers, throwing 8 touchdowns on 11 interceptions, and finished his career with 8 TDs on 18 INTs. Had a career completion percentage of just 52.5% 2002 Patrick Ramsey Tulane 57.1% R1, P32- Washington Completed just 55.7% of his passes with Washington, only starting 8+ games in a season once over 4 years. Started just 24 games, despite being a first round pick 2002 David Garrard ECU 56.6% R4, P108- Jacksonville Hands down, the best player on this list. Solid starting QB for the Jaguars before his release after the 2011 preseason. Threw 89 touchdowns for the Jaguars while starting 76 games, and made the Pro Bowl in 2009 (don’t know how he made the Pro Bowl that year, but it makes up for 2007, when he didn’t make it despite throwing just 3 interceptions, and none before the start of December) 2002 Randy Fasani Stanford 51.5% R5, P137- Carolina Played 4 games for the Panthers and started 1. In that start, he went 5-for-18 with no touchdowns, 3 interceptions, 46 yards, and a 0.0 passer rating. Not surprisingly, he did not play for the Panthers after 2002 2002 Kurt Kittner Illinois 55.3% R5, P158- Atlanta Played 2 seasons for the Falcons, where he completed 38.6% of his passes, threw 6 interceptions, and had a passer rating of 32.5. For comparison, if I entered an NFL game and threw nothing but incomplete passes, my passer rating would be higher than that 2002 Steve Bellisari Ohio State 53% R6, P205- St. Louis Rams Converted to safety for some reason. Never played a game with the Rams 2002 Ronald Curry North Carolina 46.3% R7, P235- Oakland Why you’d draft a QB that had a career completion percentage of 49.6% and threw just 8 touchdowns in 10 games in his senior year on a 46.3% completion percentage, I don’t know. He got converted to WR straight away https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/65zs0w/oc_why_585_is_the_magic_number_for_qbs_in_the_nfl/ As for what happened after 2014: 2015 yielded Trevor Siemian. 2016 brought Christian Hackenberg & Connor Cook. 2017 was the coming of C.J. Beathard. Maybe none of this means anything, but frankly, I don't like my QB running with that type of crowd

I always thought Lynch just wanted to win, which clearly wasn't going to happen with the likes of Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey running the show. I also think the friction between Ryan & Whaley + McDermott forcing Whaley out lent credence to Marrone's decision to bolt. Those guys should be listed under the heading "players/coaches who weren't content to go down with a sinking ship". Good for them.

Step one: we can have lots of fun.

I was going to make a joke about the Bills taking Washington off the trade market because they already have 3 footballs and a bag of kicking tees, but honestly, I think he's solid depth at a bargain rate.

IMO- if your QB is going to be psychologically ruined by these things, then he's not your QB. I think the list of QBs who would've been great, if only they hadn't been ruined by starting too soon, is a pretty short one.

Thanks, for sharing that. Yes OP, I just laughed my ass off.

There were other bad Bills GMs I didn't mention, but not because I was trying to glorify or expunge. They weren't a part of that 11 year span of hiring from within.

I think these have to be the top 2 choices.

Can't imagine this hasn't been shared somewhere in the last 159 pages: https://deadspin.com/police-reports-woman-hired-to-host-lesean-mccoy-famil-1827587838

It's almost as if you've mistaken me for a Mike Mularkey fan.

Mularkey quit when Marv became GM, saying he didn't think the team was being set up to succeed. From espn: Sources said that, while family considerations played a large role in Mularkey's decision, his views on the future of the franchise were also a significant factor. Since the end to a dismal season, the Buffalo organization has undergone a quick overhaul, and people in the NFL have questioned the Bills' direction. A source close to Mularkey told ESPN.com's John Clayton the primary reason for Mularkey's resignation was professional. According to the source, Mularkey didn't think the way the Bills were being set up would create an environment in which he could be successful. Mularkey may have been the first person to sense what a dumpster fire of a front office we'd have for the next 11 years. Consider: GM Marv Levy - 2006, 2007 GM Russ Brandon - 2008, 2009 GM Buddy Nix - 2010, 2011, 2012 GM Doug Whaley - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 All of these guys were among the worst, if not the undisputed worst (Brandon?) GMs in the league during their respective tenures. Abso****inglutely rigod****diculous.

What about Ronald Darby?