familykwi

I think we are ineffective at screens because of Josh's running. D-linemen hold the line of scrimmage instead of full penetration to take away Josh's running lanes. That keeps them from over pursuing and thus can make plays against the screen.

As the Patriots so often note, knowing the rule book is part of a player's (and coach's) responsibility. If we benefitted because the opponent doesn't know the rules, that's earned. Roberts let is land in the end zone without touching it because he knows the rule.

As an official (local high school, not NFL), I've been bothered about what was actually ruled on the end zone play. I've been going through the 2019 NFL rulebook to sort out what should have been ruled. If a fair catch signal was given, the kick would have ended in a touchback, but no signal shows on film and the referee action makes it clear none was given. Now the rule book: Rule 6, Section 1, Article 5a: It is a touchback, if a free kick: touches the ground in the end zone before being touched by the receiving team. * This did not occur as the ball was caught in flight. It is a touchback, if a free kick: is downed in the end zone by the receiving team. * This required further research to determine what constitutes downing the ball. Unfortunately, the word "downed" is not defined in the rule book. I then went to a player giving himself up. Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1d: An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended: when a runner declares himself down by: falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance. sliding. When a runner slides, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet. Neither of these things happen either. The burden of knowing this rule is on the player and this is where the problem occurs. At this point, the referee is correct in letting the play continue. Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1 An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended: when a forward pass (legal or illegal) is incomplete. THIS is what the kick returner did and this is what should have been ruled as the action of the play. As such, no touchdown should have been awarded. What should have been the outcome of the incomplete pass you ask? Since the forward pass was not thrown to an eligible receiver Rule 11, Section 5, Article 1(exception 2b) If a player of the team which intercepts, catches, or recovers the ball commits a live-ball foul in the end zone, it is a safety. A SAFETY WOULD HAVE BEEN THE CORRECT RULING. My observation is that no one on the crew considered the toss forward a forward pass. That wasn't the player's intention obviously, but there are a lot of actions the players don't intend to do, but rulings must be made. The referee was initially ruling this correctly by not awarding the fair catch, but confused the issue by ruling a touchdown. For those wondering who the black shirts were, it was noted during the broadcast that they were the backup officials. If an official goes down and needs to leave the field, they come in. I cannot say for sure they've never been consulted to assist with an on field ruling before, but I've never seen it as an official, or as a fan. Ruling that the player gave himself up may have been "common sense," but is not supported by the rule book. FTR, I submit this for clarity, not as a belief that the Bills were conspired against. it was a weird play and I hadn't considered the forward pass element myself until seeing someone mention it on twitter after the game. I beg responders to consider this informational, nothing more.

Back to the rule book. The ball needs to touch ground in the end zone UNTOUCHED to become a touchback. The receiver should have either let it hit and go out (like Roberts repeatedly did), or take a knee (or lay down). He caught it and tossed it forward, so it should have been an illegal forward pass in the endzone, therefore a safety.

If you're going to keep Dawkins, extend him now so the price does not go up next year. If no extension, we need to look into a replacement sooner than later. Nsekhe is unreliable with his regular injuries. I suspect Ford was left outside because they knew Nsekhe could not handle a heavier load. I don't know if Waddle is an option next year. I don't see Ford becoming a backup. If he can use his first full off season to improve his lateral footwork, then keep him outside. If he just cannot improve his slide step, then move him inside to compete with Feliciano (I don't think moving Ford to the left side solves a slow feet problem either). Although I love Feliciano, he would be a nice utility lineman inside.

I do think the line last year was awful. I think there were better players this year and better results. I also agree we're not close to an elite unit though, so it needs further attention/competition amongst members. As for Dabol, I think he's actually over creative. I've argued that this team needs more of an identity, or something to hang their hats on. I don't know if the erratic play calling is an attempt to hide flaws, but I don't buy the idea that our identity is to have no identity. That works when you have personnel like KC who can beat you in a number of different ways, so you mix it up to make defensive scheming a nightmare. We don't have that type of talent, so we need to become very good at something to draw a defense's attention to allow other plays to open up. Frankly, I don't generally enjoy Josh's designed runs because they don't look like RPOs that give him options. He just takes the snap and runs which subjects him to hits without the protection he'd have if he pitched, or threw the ball occasionally. We also do the pitch sweep to McKenzie too often. It's not a bread and butter play. It works once a game then it gets shut down. The line could be assisted by Josh if he could become accurate on short timing routes, but his footwork is abysmal, so he just flicks the ball out without proper mechanics/accuracy. I pray this is a significant area off attention this off season. I think both Brown and Beasley have the skill set to make short passing work, but I don't think Josh can. That would back off the backers and safeties and make run blocking easier. JMHO

I heard New Rochelle can maul ? I wanted to give a shout out to my alma mater (Lancaster), but New Rochelle was state champs, so kudos to them

As an official (local high school, not NFL), I've been bothered about what was actually ruled on the end zone play. I've been going through the 2019 NFL rulebook to sort out what should have been ruled. If a fair catch signal was given, the kick would have ended in a touchback, but no signal shows on film and the referee action makes it clear none was given. Now the rule book: Rule 6, Section 1, Article 5a: It is a touchback, if a free kick: touches the ground in the end zone before being touched by the receiving team. * This did not occur as the ball was caught in flight. It is a touchback, if a free kick: is downed in the end zone by the receiving team. * This required further research to determine what constitutes downing the ball. Unfortunately, the word "downed" is not defined in the rule book. I then went to a player giving himself up. Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1d: An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended: when a runner declares himself down by: falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance. sliding. When a runner slides, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet. Neither of these things happen either. The burden of knowing this rule is on the player and this is where the problem occurs. At this point, the referee is correct in letting the play continue. Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1 An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended: when a forward pass (legal or illegal) is incomplete. THIS is what the kick returner did and this is what should have been ruled as the action of the play. As such, no touchdown should have been awarded. What should have been the outcome of the incomplete pass you ask? Since the forward pass was not thrown to an eligible receiver Rule 11, Section 5, Article 1(exception 2b) If a player of the team which intercepts, catches, or recovers the ball commits a live-ball foul in the end zone, it is a safety. A SAFETY WOULD HAVE BEEN THE CORRECT RULING. My observation is that no one on the crew considered the toss forward a forward pass. That wasn't the player's intention obviously, but there are a lot of actions the players don't intend to do, but rulings must be made. The referee was initially ruling this correctly by not awarding the fair catch, but confused the issue by ruling a touchdown. For those wondering who the black shirts were, it was noted during the broadcast that they were the backup officials. If an official goes down and needs to leave the field, they come in. I cannot say for sure they've never been consulted to assist with an on field ruling before, but I've never seen it as an official, or as a fan. Ruling that the player gave himself up may have been "common sense," but is not supported by the rule book. FTR, I submit this for clarity, not as a belief that the Bills were conspired against. it was a weird play and I hadn't considered the forward pass element myself until seeing someone mention it on twitter after the game. I beg responders to consider this informational, nothing more.

As you wish... You're crazy.

The first one, is more on Duke. He does not get both hands to the ball (despite what Booger said), only one. He needs to track better on that one. The second one would have been amazing if he could have held on. Only a few receivers could have maintained that one.

So... not a Peterman fan? I agree that two playoff appearances in three years is appalling. Let's gut this again and usher in another 20 years of abysmal football. Yep. Perfectly stated. Instead of the whining, I'm still interested to know who we bring in that Adam can GUARANTEE we'll win a Super Bowl with.

Facing your end zone is a part of the rule (along with using the forearms &/or shoulders which Ford did), but it also includes forcible contact. That portion of the rule is the objection. Terms like that make officiating FAR too subjective. The intent of the rule is to eliminate players who wheel back and de-cleat a defender in pursuit at an angle that they don't see you coming. That did not happen here. In this case, Josh broke containment, and Ford looked inside to interrupt pursuing defenders. The defender Ford hit made a late adjustment preparing for the hit, so he knew it was coming. Also, the defender was neither injured, nor even knocked to the ground on the play. Since the officials evoked common sense in the end zone on the overturned kickoff debacle (as they should have FWIW), common sense should have been exercised here also. Only one person on the field felt that block was a problem. Unfortunately, that person happened to have a flag in his belt.

I actually made that (petty, somewhat useless) point to my Patriots friend as we watched his team go down. I can live with a team eventually matching, or surpassing that accomplishment. I don't want to be as sad as the undefeated Dolphins were after all, but for the love of God, it just could not be these Patriots that matched it.

Maybe not 100%, maybe 98% unreasonable. This organization has lacked stability through a generation. Who do you suppose we can bring in that you can GUARANTEE will do better than McDermott? This team IS better than we were with Rexy (and Dougy, and Chany, and Dicky, ...). This team is deeper than we've been in years. With draft capital and salary cap money available, this team has the ability to continue to get better as we move forward. Taking significant steps back is why we were a laughing stock before McD arrived. Let's not return to the dark ages please.

His career is claimed by age. He's not leaving because Buffalo is mediocre. He's leaving because of father time and the desire to walk upright through retirement.

No. Not where our dollars need to be spent. We need another Zo, or Phillips. Hungry players ready to get their chance, not someone looking to break the bank. Well that sounds nice, but if you're going to post an idea, could you please add your plan for how to make this reality? So we trade what to get Kuechly exactly? Mortgage our future by trading multiple firsts? I don't think I can bear the idea of what it would cost to get Carolina to even think about parting with him. Today was a disappointment, but OUR brains should still function fine. Let's try constructive conversation shall we...

A) it’s not going to happen B) it would not have been overturned if it was reviewed. Contact was made with shoulder, as well as arms, but the league has shown over and over they would rather not overturn if at all possible. That was a (poor) judgement call, so they would have supported it.

I’d like to see him make those plays, especially the end zone shot, but I think he’s a player Josh is willing to throw to with decent timing I might add. I think he can contribute as a 4, or 5 receiver. I don’t know that you count on him to be a starter.

Heart is nice, but Watson had heart too in addition to the headiness to not make atrocious decisions when his team needs him to lead. I lost about all faith in Josh on that moronic lateral. He’s a great athlete with heart, but I don’t see the promised land as long as he’s pulling the trigger. A long, deep, cross field throw to your fullback is not much better. Before you say Josh is young, Watson is only 8 months older and makes good decisions when needed. Josh loses his mind when things get intense against legit competition. To answer the original question though, this was a team loss. Way too many errors to put it on any one person. PLENTY of blame to go round.

At some point he has to be able to control the offense, not just survive riding the D

The ref explained it. If properly ruled inbounds, the clock would have run. Since stopped on the incorrect TD call, runoff.

With no time outs left, that would be a poor choice.

Is there an injury? Why a 10 second run off?

If Josh does not invest significant time into his throwing mechanics, this is his ceiling.