Nihilarian

What? Are you saying the 2013 roster was better than the 2015 roster? I strongly disagree with that. That 6-10 first season for Marrone in 2013 was the result of no QB coach with basically three rookie QB's attempting to learn their trade while being coached by an absolute fool for an OC in Nate Hackett. This with one of the very worst offensive lines in the game...again, with three rookie QB's Rex Ryan inherited a 9-7 Jets team in 2009 with multiple all pro players on the offensive line and on the defense. Defensive players Derrell Revis, Shaun Ellis, Calvin Pace, David Harris already on the team when he got there. The team drafted a rookie QB and ran the ball far more than they passed it those first two years. Rex Ryan won those first two years by playing ball control offense with a strong run game and playing great defense. The Jets offense in 2009 393 passing attempts vs 607 rushing attempts. wow! RB Thomas Jones 1402 yards rushing, 14 TD's. The Jets offense in 2010 525 passing attempts vs 534 rushing attempts with LaDainian Tomlinson as the RB Then in 2011 the Jets asked QB Mark Sanchez to step up his game and throw a lot more and the result wasn't very good. 2009- 9-7 AFC Championship game as a WC 2010- 11-5 AFC Championship game as a WC Rex Ryan's last four seasons with the NY Jets. 2011- 8-8 2012- 6-10 2013- 8-8 2014-4-12 2015- 8-8 Gee, look familiar? I attribute Ryan's first two seasons with the Jets much the same way Dick Jauron got lucky his one season and went 13-3, only Ryan was able to do it twice. I don't hate Rex Ryan simply because he is Rex Ryan. I can't stand him for what he did to the defense this year. Just the same way I liked Jim Schwartz for what he was able to do with the Bills defense what George Edwards, Dave Wannstedt, and even Mike Pettine were unable to do. The sad fact is Rex Ryan is responsible for what happens on the field as a head coach on both sides of the ball. To cry that his GM tried to get him fired by not getting him the players he needed on defense was ridiculous. The team had three different offensive coordinators in his six years at the helm and a multitude of QB's in which the team failed big time to develop any of them or get any of them to win past the 2010 season. Both the offense regressed and the defense regressed under Ryan. Unlike Pete Carroll who could develop a 5th round pick into an all pro player. Rex Ryan needs the players to already be on the roster and not just any old superstar players either. He needs players that fit his scheme or his scheme won't work. Sadly we Bills fans gotta buy into 2016 Buffalo Bills because we have no choice and the new owner doesn't have the courage of his convictions to realize he made a mistake with his first hire

To add to this simply go back to the Chiefs game in which Ryan had Marcell Dareus drop into pass coverage several times and on two of those occasions the Chiefs QB Alex Smith threw two TD's. Ineptitude is very difficult to hide in the NFL and I have my doubts that even if Ryan had better linebackers, safeties, cornerbacks with no injuries it still would have been difficult for his defense to stop anyone with so little actual blitzing the team did this year. it looked to me like many teams kept six in to block and the Bills mostly only sent four...sometimes three. It was almost like Ryan was determined to show he was a better DC than Schwartz who only blitzed about 20% of the time in 2014 and Ryan blitzed much less than that. To average it out Ryan blitzed only about 10% of the time most of the year in 2015.

I dunno GG I just rewatched that game and though it is difficult to see what is happening from the side view it looked to me like #71 of the Bengals simply stoned #74 most of the game. It looked to me like Mario was giving effort on every play. Joe B grade that game and gave Mario a "C". That article I linked earlier the author wrote about what happened in that Bengals game and gave his opinion. http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense. The sad fact of the matter is that the Bills were only able to get one hit on Andy Dalton all game and that was from a blitz. Dalton was getting the ball out quickly and negating the rush. What bugs the heck out of me is to watch the Bills rush with only three players on some plays and the Bengals looked like they always had six in to block.

I agree that Ryan's defensive scheme is complicated and somewhat difficult to learn. However, I just don't think it takes 14 games or a season to fully learn it. The 2009 NY Jets went from around 18th the previous year to #1 in total defense in Ryan's first year mostly because he had the proper personnel on the roster to run it. Those Jets didn't need most of the year to learn his scheme. Jim Schwartz had a simple attack plan to utilize his defensive line to mostly rush the passer. He still had some of them dropping into pass coverage now and again to mix things up, just not to the extent that Ryan did this year. It was like Ryan was running a zone blitz scheme without any blitzing. Schwartz"s scheme for the D-line = attack! Ryan's scheme = could have a multitude of checks which can make the defense slow to react and screw up if they make the wrong read, which happened a bunch. It wasn't just the injuries. It wasn't just the lack of blitzing. It wasn't just utilizing a bad scheme fit for the players on the roster. It wasn't just asking the elite pass rushers to drop into pass coverage more than they should have. It wasn't just the scheme asking the elite pass rushers to play gap control over rushing the passer. It wasn't just the defensive play calls coming in late. It wasn't just switching out defensive players as the offense broke the huddle or players not being set when the ball is snapped. It was a confluence of everything above creating the crapstorm of a defense we all saw on the field and yea it was that bad. From a top five unit to 20th for most of the year was a disaster in my view. What bothers me a bit is that the last two meaningless games it looked like the coaches finally changed up the defense to be more simplified with less dropping into coverage along with more rushing the passer. Doing this moved the stats down a notch from 20th to 19th. What also bothers me is the fact that a new HC ruined a playoff caliber defense because he didn't want to adjust the scheme to fit the players. So, now the team will need to add different players to make Ryan's defense work and how many years will that take?

See, I myself can't really tell when he took a play off. I can recall watching the 2012 Buffalo Bills defense under Dave Wannstedt and it looked to me like the Bills had great difficulty in getting pressure on the QB just rushing the front four and not blitzing. This year in Rex Ryans 3-4 under it is even worse and Ryan blitzed so few times in many games this year. I think Rex Ryan lost some of the players in the Bills locker room just the same way he had with the Jets the last few years. It's one thing for one player to publically state their disdain for something wrong with the team and then yes you could color him a malcontent. This year it's been all four D-linemen saying the very same thing only some not as vocal as others. Marcell Dareus has been complaining about what he is being asked to do since training camp. Jerry Hughes has been vocal about it as was Kyle Williams only not so much as the other two. Some excerpts from an article by Stephen White, a retired NFL player who contributes articles to SB Nation. http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense "The point is why would you not use your high priced, elite pass rushers (Kyle Willaims don't come cheap either, bro) to do what they do best? Especially when the Bills -- the guys who blitzed Luck 25 times on 55 pass dropbacks in Week 1 -- only blitzed the Bengals 13 times the whole damn game." "Well, it seems like Rex Ryan is suddenly determined to put square pegs into round holes by putting his scheme over talent, at least he was Sunday. We know that the Bills have four dominant defensive linemen who fit best in an attacking 4-3 scheme. " "Instead of putting his best players in the best positions to not only be successful and productive, Ryan seems to be clinging to his 3-4 roots a bit too fiercely and holding them back. While the Bills lined up 19 times in either an over or under alignment (4-3) against the Bengals, they lined up in a base version of a 3-4 defense 22 times (those numbers do not include third-down plays)." "It's much worse than just Ryan having his best pass rushers dropping into coverage too much rather than actually, yanno, pass rushing." "One edge guy, either Williams or Hughes, generally gets to stand up and either set the edge/pass rush on the edge or drop into coverage when they line up in a base 3-4. The other edge rusher often has to line up on the offensive tackle rather than being on an edge. That's pretty much the opposite of an ideal situation for most highly skilled pass rushers." Even having Mario Williams, a human cheat code with his ridiculous combination of size, strength and athletic ability, two-gapping an offensive tackle is a pretty dumb thing to do on a regular basis because it's obvious he doesn't like doing it! I greatly admire Williams' game, but he's just not that guy who wants to be lined up head-up and wrestle with a 300-pounder all game. That goes double for Hughes, who plays with plenty of heart, but doesn't have nearly the kind of size and strength you generally want in a 3-4 five technique defensive end." "After watching this film, I have no idea who this version of Rex Ryan is. And that is unfortunate. As tacky and inadvisable as it is for players to call out their coaches to the media, I do think Ryan should do himself a favor and actually start listening to what they are saying. The reason is simple, they are not wrong." I honestly don't know what happened in Rex Ryan's head between week one to week eleven to stop calling blitzes like he was so used to doing in past years. While continuing to put his superstar D-line players in a non-optimal position to make plays. All I do know is it was a certifiable disaster to misuse the Buffalo Bills defensive line players like he has this year. All I can think of is he must have given Terry Pegula one hell of an excuse to retain his job as the Buffalo Bills HC.

I think most of you simply have the wrong read on Mario like he was totally insubordinate and didn't even attempt to do his job. If his job calls for gap contain on a certain play then he is going to look like he is just standing there and not making any effort. I saw at times that Rex Ryan even had Mario wide out as if he was in a "wide nine" type scheme and was on the outside of the OT like Schwartz used him and he still didn't get to the QB. It sure didn't look like he wasn't trying, though. Anyway, here are some excerpts from a BN story by Tyler Dunn. http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/12/31/248307/ “At the end of the day,” Williams said, “you just have to play what’s called and the position you’re in. You can’t do anything about it.”= Gap control or dropping into pass coverage? "but inside linebacker Preston Brown asserts that Williams “definitely bought in” to Ryan’s defense and that effort hasn't been an issue. “He was trying to do what the coaches asked him to,” Brown said. “When you’re 30 years old, it’s kind of hard to start doing stuff you’ve never done. … He’s out there doing his job. I know he’s out there doing his job day in and day out.” Probably the most telling part, "Teammates staunchly defend Mario Williams anonymously, too. While some are skeptical about Ryan’s scheme publicly, others are downright furious privately. One player said he completely understands Williams’ season long frustration because the simple, straightforward, attacking defense employed by 2014 coordinator Jim Schwartz was so effective. Under Schwartz in 2014, the Bills racked up 54 sacks and opposing quarterbacks had a 74.5 rating. Under Ryan in 2015, they have 20 sacks and quarterbacks have an 86.0 rating." "It's been night and day. Many players here preferred Schwartz's mano-a-mano approach up front. Playing a “Wide 9” technique — rushing off the edge — the 6-foot-6, 292-pound Williams was a force. Now? Simulated pressure, confusion, hiding your intentions pre-snap is the emphasis and he's mostly just taking up space." What the coaches think, "But I think he’s helping our defense based upon the things he’s doing.” Dunbar cited linebacker Manny Lawson’s hit on Dallas’ Kellen Moore — the team’s only registered QB hit in the game — as one such play. Williams covered tight end James Hanna out of the backfield, eliminating the hot read and Moore was walloped. The coach asserts Williams “has been around the quarterback” and didn't hesitate on if Williams has been giving his all." It's...the...freaking...scheme!!

"Truth be told, if Rex were fired, we would all delude ourselves into believing that the crappy retreads on the market were much greater than they are." ,

Hey, I agree that although sacks are very important they are only one part of building a championship defense. But with literally no pressure on the opposing QB it usually means the defense will have a difficult time stopping the offense and getting them off the field. This means a great deal to a run heavy team like the Bills were because when they get the ball they eat up a lot of clock running it and the more they run it the less the other team has the ball. Run heavy teams need more chances with the ball. I can remember back to 2010 when Buddy Nix was pulling out his hair because every QB they faced looked like an all pro and this was especially frustrating watching rookie QB's look like that. We all know what a no pass rush team looks like and it isn't pretty. I think this year that Rex Ryan proved that no matter how good the secondary is you can't stop anyone by just playing coverage schemes. Now go back to rewatch a lot of games only to see the Bills DB's 10-15 yards off the line like they are protecting a lead from the start of the game. It's a tribute to the Bills players that they were 19th against the pass with literally no pass rush almost all year. 21 sacks out of 1,017 with 602 pass attempts at 3.4 percent which is so pathetic Ryan should be embarrassed. What's rather alarming to me is that so many fans here are taking this lack of sacks from the sack master himself so nonchalantly like it doesn't matter at all. I can only think that because the Bills were #1 & #2 the previous years and they didn't win that many games, so it becomes less significant. What so many fans fail to realize is that in 2013 with Nate Hackett running his "hurry up and punt" offense with 3 rookie QB's at the helm it meant that his defense was ALWAYS on the field very game. The Bills were 28th in time of possession in 2013. So, even though the Bills had 57 sacks under Pettine his defenses were getting worn out game after game because the offense couldn't sustain long drives or even stay on the field very long. Then in 2014 with Kyle Orton at QB with the Bills throwing it 35 to 40+ times a game the offense was still 21st in time of possession on offense which meant the defense was out on the field much more than they should have been to stay effective. This season the Buffalo Bills were the #1 rushing offense and #2 in rushing attempts and managed that with a 4.8 YPC avg and they were 11th in time of possession. This while being 13th in total offense and 28th in passing offense. Had the Bills blitzed like Rex Ryan did in his first two years with the NY Jets at 50% of the drop backs. I have to think this year's Bills team with less penalties, more discipline, more sacks could have easily won more games. This year for the Bills should have been very reminiscent of the 2009 NY Jets IMO.

And what happens if Roman does get a shot at being a HC because the pool is so shallow? I for one would rather see Jim Schwartz as the Buffalo Bills HC over Ryan. I'd rather see Greg Roman as HC and hire Schwartz to be DC and find a decent OC to run Romans offense the way he wants. My list is almost endless of people I'd rather see as the Bills HC mostly because the guy took the best pass rush in the league and destroyed it. From 1st to 31st the Legend of Wrex Ryan grows.

If your defense sits back in coverage a lot and doesn't blitz what happens? It gives the opposing QB time to throw and make those deep passes. It's why suddenly Alex Smith had a deep ball against Buffalo. It's why Blake Bortles was able to drive 80 yards to score the winning TD. So many games in which the Bills had the edge only to see the opposing QB sit in the pocket and make plays to win the game. There is a real reason why this fan base went so crazy to sign DE Mario Williams and Buddy Nix wouldn't let him leave Buffalo until he signed for 100 million dollars!! Oh, and any other players making nearly that much on the team like perhaps another DE and a DT? It's why the team wasted a first round pick on Aaron Maybin in the outside chance that the one year wonder at Penn St could actually rush the passer! I dunno about the rest of you Bills fans but my favorite game this year was against the Patriots in the second game when Ryan brought so much pressure he had Tom Brady screaming at his offensive line. That's right in 20 of 40 drop backs was more pressure then Brady had seen in the last 7 1/2 years. Then suddenly, and abruptly as it started, it stopped because Ryan really only brought the heat for that one game. Up until that point, no other team had held the unbeaten Patriots to 20 points. How good was that Buffalo Bills defensive scheme against the Patriots in week 11? It was so good it showed the rest of the NFL on how to get to Brady and after that, the Patriots lose their next game. Then go on to lose the next four out of six. That one sole game proves that he could switch things up when he wanted and get successfully get pressure on the QB 50% of the defensive drop backs just like he did in his first two years with the NY Jets when they went to the AFC Championship game. This is exactly right! What does it say about a head coach who refuses to put his players in the best position for them to succeed and make plays? Go ahead Buffalo and cut the best pass rusher since Bruce Smith since you want him to play gap contain anyway. Then keep the scrub head coach who ruined the defense this year and then allow him retool the defense for his lame 3-4 scheme that doesn't win games! Get used to 8-8, 6-10, 8-8, 4-12 because those are the records of his NY Jets teams his last four years with the Jets.

Sacks matter because it equates to getting pressure on the QB and disrupting the opponents passing game and frustrating the QB with hits, hurries, pressures. It's why the Buffalo Bills paid their front four 1/4 billion dollars to get sacks!

WOW! Update, Lovie Smith fired in TB. This is sorta a head scratcher to me because the Bucs were 2-14 last year from 4-12 the year before under Schiano and this year finished 6-10 with marked improvement now that they have solidified the QB position. Plus, rookie QB Winston threw for 4k yards and Martin had 1400 yards rushing. I dunno, perhaps it's because they lost their last four games. Sean Payton staying in NO

Exactly, as this year was all on the defense being bad and actually worse than George Edwards-Dave Wannstedt type bad considering the talent on the defensive side. This year was all on Rex Ryan. It seems like every week the excuses start in another thread about the injuries, with players poisoning the locker room with a bad attitude, with the players so inept, i.e. so stupid they can't grasp a defensive scheme. Or it will take a year to learn the scheme because it's so complicated. This is just all wrong. You don't go from 1st in the NFL in sacks to 31st in one year with the same front four players unless you simply don't blitz enough or put the players in position to rush the passer. It wasn't just the injuries as this year's defensive debacle started in week two against the Patriots in playing a prevent defense all game (DB's 10-15 yards off the line) with very little pass rush along with asking those elite rushers to drop into pass coverage on third down. Then asking those superstar elite rushers to concern themselves with gap control over rushing the passer. Ever watch a play where it looks like those D-linemen are just standing there doing nothing? That's gap control and they are doing exactly what they were asked to do in this years scheme. ESPN noted that the Bills in week two only got pressure on Tom Brady 9.8% of the drop backs which was less than the Bills were able to do in every game last season. Then go back and rewatch the Monday night game Bills vs Patriots to see the Buffalo Bills get pressure on Brady 20 of his 40 dropbacks. That's 50% vs less then 10% pressure on the QB is the difference between the two games. From a defensive man in Ryan who used to blitz as much as 50% of the time in his first two seasons with the Jets to 30-35% in the later season to now less than 10% blitzing in a lot of games is the real reason this year's defense stunk it up so badly. Think about it! But it doesn't stop with just the lack of blitzing as it's a massive combination of problems concerning the coaches. It's defensive plays coming in late as so often that even the players noticed that the slowest offenses would rush to the line because of those late plays calls. It's also players out of position and not set when the ball is snapped When Ryan does blitz nobody covers the out The Penalties even going back to week 14 against the Eagles the Bills with 15 penalties for 101 yards It's the lack of defensive line rotation is far less then the year previous It's asking the players on the D-line to drop into pass coverage much too often and enough so the players themselves were complaining about it. Marcel Dareus has been complaining that the scheme didn't fit the current players since preseason This year's defense was alarmingly bad in sacks when you consider that George Edwards didn't have Mario Williams or Jerry Hughes the two edge rushers. 2011 Bills had 29 sacks-2010 Bills had 27 sacks. The 2015 Bills had only 22 sacks with two sacks coming against Fitz in that last game. I don't see why more Bills fans aren't shouting from the rooftops about this issue.

Good point and to add that OG Mathis isn't a power-blocking mauler. His game is best suited for a zone-blocking scheme, which limits the pool of suitors. The Broncos under new HC Gary Kubiak run a zone blocking scheme.

Good stuff, thanks for posting. I'm really hoping Vic's source is correct and Terry Pegula said one more year. Then I'm hoping Rex Ryan gets his head permanently removed from his posterior and plays every game next year like he did against the Patriots in that second game.

Could be. But then not disciplining a young super-star player when he screws up isn't the reason for the losing season IMO. The 2015 NY Giants lost to the Cowboys in the opener & Patriots by one point. Lost to the NO Saints 49-52 Lost in OT to the Jets. Lost by 3 points 35-38 to the undefeated Panthers. If that defense were worth a damn they would have been in the playoffs this year, and perhaps the SB.

Top O-line players like QB's are at a premium as so many teams are desperate for top OT's & OG's. I can see many, many teams offering more than what you are suggesting. Incognito should have made the pro bowl and probably would have if not for his rep. He stayed out of the media spotlight and cleaned up his play significantly this year. Some team will make him a better offer and same with Glenn. JMO.

I'd fire Ryan and hire Tom Coughlin in a heartbeat as he is the anti-Rex Ryan. Coughlin runs a very well disciplined team. It has been his choices for DC's along with some The 2015 NY Giants finished the year 6-10 but were #6 in offensive points, #8 in offensive yards. It was their defense led by Steve Spagnuolo who let the team down 30th in points allowed, 32nd in yards allowed. the defense was just about as bad the year before under Fewell. Hire Coughlin and Schwartz as his DC. Keep Roman as OC and this team is in the playoffs in 2016 (provided the team re-signs Incognito-Glenn and finds a decent RT)

Hoping for 8-9 mill when the article is stating 11 mill per when the top end is 13 mill, maybe! Incognito wants to stay in Buffalo and the going rate for a top OG is 8 mill per. The past history of how the Bills pay their O-linemen tells me I doubt they sign either player.

I think the 2002-2005 NY Jets players would disagree and most notably RB Curtis Martin who had a career year running behind Marrone's line in NY. He sings St Doug's praises as do the linemen themselves. http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/48179/former-jets-star-kevin-mawae-gives-doug-marrone-a-thumbs-up Also, let's not forget that Marrone is from NYC. Gotta remember that a lot of NFL exec's like Polian look at Marrone as a young Bill Parcels type clone.

4 to 5 years... I sorta agree with the OP and myself I don't see Rex Ryan as anything other than that lost looking loser on the sidelines of those two Jets losses last year. Greg Roman and stout Bills run game saved the season from being a complete disaster. This year I put Rex Ryan in the same category as Hank Bullough who I feel was one of the very worst head coaches in Buffalo Bills history. Vic Carucci might have gotten it wrong that Ryan & Whaley have one year to make the playoffs or they are fired. I just hope he isn't! There certainly is quite a bit to be depressed and frustrated over considering all the hype going into this season and the biggest disappointment is with the defense that was #4 overall, and #1 in sacks in 2014 only to go to Dave Wannstedt type bad. Yet Wannstedt had 36 sacks which put him at 18th. Rex Ryan was 31st in sacks this year and couldn't have done worse even if he had planned it... unless he did! I'm having a difficult time comprehending how an HC who is a supposed defensive genius can take a playoff caliber defense with four superstars on the defensive line and completely ruin it while making them all look average...then retain his job! Anyway, Bills fans really don't know what to expect from Ryan next year. Tyrod Taylor has a long way to go before he becomes an elite QB! Will the 2016 Bills improve the offensive line at RG &RT or go the other way while losing Incognito & Glenn in free agency? The sad reality is the last two games the Bills beat a bad 4-10 Clownboys team 16-6 with a Dallas QB making his first NFL start in Kellen Moore. Otherwise, the Bills are 6-9. Then the next game against the Jets in which Fitzpasspick & Chan Gaily choke as usual in a big game the Bills win, 22-17. Gailey calling 17 rushing plays the entire game while putting everything on Fitz's shoulders to win was so typical of his time in Buffalo. Otherwise, the team is 6-10. Just like last year with the Bills playing a Patriots team that had already clinched home field throughout and had no incentive to actually win that last game the Bills finish 9-7 instead of 8-8. Bills fans now have this feel good mentality going into the offseason because their team won the last two meaningless games. The Bills season ended in Washington getting beaten by a mediocre 7-7 team with Skins QB Kirk Cousins throwing for 319 yards and 4 TD's.

Open Jobs NYG Philly Cleve SF Miami Tenn Detroit-Jim Caldwell will find out his future when the new GM takes over and gives the decision to keep him or not. NO- Sean Payton. the team is looking for draft picks for Payton and several teams are drooling over this NYG-Miami-SF. With such limited candidates, I can see Marrone getting a whole lot of looks. Adam Gase seems like the hottest assistant. Mike Shanahan- Hue Jackson-Teryl Austin- Matt Patricia- Sean McDermott-Mike Smith-Doug Pederson among others. What's interesting is I haven't read of Jim Schwartz getting any looks yet.

I agree, but what I was referring to earlier was that Pears at RG fits Buddy Nix's narrative that any OT can be moved to OG if need be. So, perhaps that was presented to him by Whaley. Not like Marrone had a great selection of star players to plug in on that line at LG, RT, RG. Look at the lack of talent on the offensive line vs the defensive line where each and every starter is a high quality and highly paid player. This has been the philosophy of the Bills FO since failing with Mike Williams at LT it seems. Trading away all pro-LT Jason Peters and then expecting to replace him with a 7th round pick in Demetress Bell. Replacing Andy Levitre with Colin Brown. Legurski, Chris Williams and finally back to Urbik who was plucked off the waiver wire with Pears. We don't know the whole story on Marrone and exactly why he walked away from Buffalo. We all know we are happy about that situation given his choice for OC but we also know he clashed with the current GM over some things and we don't know the entirety of those things either.

I stand corrected. I had forgotten that and it makes sense now to keep Urbik as a backup LG behind Williams then.

I agree! I love watching Tyrod and hope he develops well this upcoming year. That said how many 300 yard games has he had? How many times has he won games in which he threw over 30 times in a single game? Still Taylor did throw for 3035 yards with 20 TD's vs 6 INT's in his first year starting. He has a ways to go before he gets anyway near Jim Kelly status.