Nihilarian

Last season Eagles OG Evan Mathis was offered 5.5 mill per from a team and he chose to take less pay to play with a contender. He was rewarded with a super bowl ring and I commend him for doing what he did to get that ring. In the beginning of players careers, I think that most only want the money and as they age and see how few players actually get a super bowl ring. Then that desire for a ring usually grows as time goes on. After 10 seasons in the league, Mario should have enough money stashed away to not be that concerned about his next contract. I dunno, perhaps he has money issues due to some bad investing. Kinda difficult to believe, but it happens. If I were in his place I know I'd rather sign with the Panthers, Patriots or Cardinals rather than the Dolphins / Giants with new coaching staffs. At this point in his career, I would think they only thing left to accomplish is to get that ring. So yea, it is sad and disappointing that all he is concerned about is the money.

That is rather sad to hear and it does change my opinion of him.

It is crazy. Anyone else notice that the running game was still pretty good even with Shady on the sidelines? This FO saw first hand what a top OG can do for not only the pass / run game, but in making the two players along side of him better players. Unless it's a ridiculous amount, pay the guy. Then sign Jahri Evans to play RG

The point was the defense didn't just "merely disappoint" and the biggest reason for this was the difference in sacks between 2014 and 2015 and the ranking from overall ranking #4 to #19. The primary reason for that discrepancy was the lack of pass rush due to the scheme. It has to be more then clear that Ryan didn't run a one gap scheme very often or the team would have had more sacks!!! It's also why Mario and Dareus were complaining about the scheme all season! It wasn't just Mario who didn't have as many sacks as it was the entire team and more significantly that entire highly paid defensive line. Plus, you can't compare the Bills 2015 defense to what Ryan did historically simply because last years defense hardly blitzed at all and Ryan was noted in the past for blitzing a lot. As for the bold, it's not wrong and I took that verbatim from an article I linked. It was written by an ex D-line player who played for Bucs and Jets who commented on the Bengals game and as he stated that was the way they ran alignment when they were in a base 3-4. There was a reason why the team went from 1st in the NFL in sacks in 2014 to 31st in 2015 and it had very little to do with the players or their effort.

The Jets are letting Fitz test the open market and he wants Bradford type money. Perhaps RG3 will end up with the Jets when they take another look at Geno.

Oh man, I would love that scenario. But, alas this is the Buffalo Bills we are talking about. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/07/veteran-guard-jahri-evans-visiting-bills-today/

How exactly did the 2015 Buffalo Bills defense "merely disappoint" and Mario quit equal with the same front four going from 1st in the NFL in sacks, QB hits, hurries to 31st under Ryan? I realize Ryan switched up his schemes all season and sometimes he actually ran a 4-3 wide nine during games. It was mostly all about gap control almost all of the 2015 season. In Ryan's 3-4, One edge guy, either Williams or Hughes, generally gets to stand up and either set the edge/pass rush on the edge or drop into coverage when they line up in a base 3-4. The other edge rusher often has to line up on the offensive tackle rather than being on an edge. (usually, Mario) That's pretty much the opposite of an ideal situation for most highly skilled pass rushers. So, even when Ryan ran a base 3-4 he wasn't necessarily running a one-gap scheme and this is what both Mario and Marcell were being vocal about. Dareus was complaining about how he was being utilized in Ryan's scheme since training camp.

I think media and fans would love Mario on the Giants and he would be a good fit for the 4-3 defense they run. I can't help but think he might end up in Carolina or Arizona though and only because Mario may want to go to a winning team.

I dunno where you get the wrong place, wrong time stuff as I never said that. Did you even read the articles I linked in this thread? The entire idea of the Rex Ryan 3-4 is for the D-linemen to hold up the O-linemen so that the linebackers can make the plays. A very pathetic way of wasting 28% of the payroll tied up in the front four if you asked me! Since you clearly didn't bother to read those links, then allow me to highlight a specific part. “He’s doing a good job (Mario) of coming off the edge and the quarterback’s getting rid of the ball,” Dunbar said. “It’s kind of hard because the defense we play is predicated on what they give us and who’s going to be the hot guy. Yeah, you wish you had more tackles, you wish you had more sacks. But I think he’s helping our defense based upon the things he’s doing.” Dunbar cited linebacker Manny Lawson’s hit on Dallas’ Kellen Moore – the team’s only registered QB hit in the game – as one such play. Williams covered tight end James Hanna out of the backfield, eliminating the hot read and Moore was walloped. I read that and my take is wow! WTF! This coaching staff is happy over one hit all game on the QB, and this against a QB who was making his first NFL start! The Bills defense playing gap control rather then letting the dogs loose to rush the passer, and get sacks, hits, hurries was just unbelievably stupid for most of the year. Marcell Dareus only had 2.0 sacks in 2015 after having 10 the previous year and he actually made more tackles than he had in 2014. But hey, keep saying Mario quit if that is what you want to think. EDIT: Then, who would you rather run the ball at, a 290 LB DE or a 253lb DE? I would think the opposing teams would rather run away from the elite pro bowl DE. But, that's just me.

This is rather sad, but true. He played in only 5 games last year before his injury and 13 games the year before that with the same injury. An ongoing thing that hasn't fully healed? One game the year before that and 9 games the year before that. So, out of the last 64 games he has played in only 28 games. I'd pass.

That is a narrative made by some but for some reason, the Buffalo Bills coaches themselves didn't see it that way. If you read through this thread I posted a link to an article that stated that they ... "Ryan. Defensive coordinator Dennis Thurman. Defensive line coach Karl Dunbar. Coaches have supported Williams all season long – possibly to a fault." "The coach asserts Williams “has been around the quarterback” and didn’t hesitate on if Williams has been giving his all. “Yeah, I think so,” Dunbar said. “He’s out there doing the things we’ve asked him to do. … It’s a little bit different than what he’s done in the past, but I think it’s working for us.” http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/12/31/marios-swan-song-with-bills-is-near/ Fans here post a link showing that Mario didn't rush the passer in 2015 like he has in past years and suddenly most fans think he quit on the team. The real problem is... he wasn't asked to rush the passer! But rather stay in his position and take on the OT while defending the run. Huge difference in playing a one gap scheme and a two-gap scheme. It's also a big reason why Ryan said it wasn't all about sacks and the team went from 1st in the NFL to 31st.

Wow, you couldn't be more wrong! If Mario was used in a one-gap scheme like Wade Phillips runs, then you would be correct. Ryan didn't use Mario as his edge rusher as that job went to Jerry Hughes who is 6'2'' 253 and even then Hughes didn't actually rush nearly as much as he did in Schwartz's scheme. Mario who is 6'6'' 290 was used as the 2 two gap DE who is supposed to wrestle the OT and was asked to not rush the passer. So when guys like Mike Mayock say "his best fit is as a 5 technique end" they mean that the player can play this position. Typically these guys are: Near or over 300 lbs. 280 is small for a 5 tech. Romeo liked his DEs to be enormous (320+ lbs). Physical and strong Able to play two gaps versus the run; able to shoot their hands right up into an offensive tackle's chest, stand him up, and then shed his block and move to either side of him to make a tackle. More intelligent or good at getting a read on what the offense is doing Not necessarily extremely quick or athletic, though this can be a bonus http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/4/11/2082375/draft-terminology-the-three-technique-and-the-five-technique Realistically neither Mario or Hughes are a fit in Ryan's 3-4 scheme. Then, asking players who were paid huge amounts of money to rush the passer and they do it so well they make the pro bowl. Then the very next year have them play in a two gap system most of the season was more than lame. What's even more problematic is that neither Kyle Williams nor Marcell Dareus will be a fit in his 3-4 either and the Bills will eventually need to revamp that entire line to fit what the scheme he is determined to run. Like I've posted repeatedly, the sole reason the Bills were 31st in sacks in 2015 was because of the scheme Ryan ran almost all season, nothing more, nothing less. If you honestly want to get a better understanding of what happened with the defense in 2015, then read this http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense If you don't care to know and would prefer just rolling with the ongoing narrative that it was Mario's fault and Mario quit on the team, then have at it. Should Mario end up with a team like the Carolina Panthers to be that 4-3 edge rusher he will do fine for a few more years and if for some reason he loses the ability to be an every-down DE. I'm sure he will do well as a 3rd down rushing specialist. I just hope he doesn't end up a Dolphin, Jet or Patriot.

Great news indeed if true!

Amen, brother! Although I almost wonder if this past season's defensive scheme was contrived to make Mario look bad so it would make things easier to release him without the fanbase going berserk. Recall the 100+ thread of Bills fans anticipating his signing with Buffalo. Bills fans went nuts over his signing and most were so disappointed in the defense under Dave Wannstedt. Then we all revealed in Pettine's scheme that came in at #2 in sacks. For some reason now sacks don't seem to be a big deal with the fans base anymore and I can only suspect because that it's because #4 defense didn't take the team to the super bowl. I also agree that if Hue Jackson had been hired (which is what I have read that Doug Whaley was pushing for) and the team had retained Jim Schwartz as DC for 2015. (Tyrod Taylor aside) I believe that this years team would have not only made the playoffs but put a serious claim on not only the division title but the AFC Championship title. My greatest hope for this team is that these new owners finally hire that NFL experienced senior advisor / czar / team president of football operations to take Russ Brandon and the owners themselves out of the teams football decisions as neither are qualified to make those decisions!

Except that not only did he keep his mouth shut and do his job all season, he managed to stay pretty much penalty free while playing at a pro bowl level. Pro bowl OG's are at a premium and will command top dollar and yes, even at age 30. The reason Evan Mathis didn't do so well after he left the Eagles is because he was graded as more of a finesse zone blocking OG player for that team. The thing is though was Mathis was 33 years old when he signed a deal with the Broncos that would pay him as much as 4 mill with incentives and he pretty much did that while being the #1 blocking OG in the league last year. The real reason he didn't take a job right away was because he turned down an offer for 5.5 mill from another team as he wanted to play for a contender... he got his championship ring! Just an FYI that Richie Incognito was graded as the best overall OG in the league last year by the same people who graded Evans as the best run blocker. Logan Mankins (age 33) is the top paid OG at 8.5 mill per and Andy Levitre is 29 years old and the #4 paid OG at 7.8 mill per! Incognito is a hell of a lot better than Levitre IMO.

Plus, the sad fact is that the only guy that does fit in Rex Ryan's 3-4 is DE Jerry Hughes as the "edge pass rusher". Neither Kyle Willams or Marcell Dareus fit in his scheme as neither are nose tackles or DE's. So, all that money paid to Dareus and he isn't going to be getting 10 sacks unless Ryan changes his scheme and the way he uses those players. Then, Dareus has been complaining publically since last season's training camp and it makes me wonder if he would have resigned with Buffalo if he knew how he would be used in Ryan's two gap scheme. He won't be happy again this year unless things change and that doesn't look likely.

You guys talking about the coaches holding the players accountable...and yet they all had no issue whatsoever with Mario's play in the 2015 season. In fact, "Ryan. Defensive coordinator Dennis Thurman. Defensive line coach Karl Dunbar. Coaches have supported Williams all season long – possibly to a fault. Their message has never wavered. Dunbar, all smiles, praised the veteran on Thursday. Asked how one of this generation’s best pass rushers can last 54 snaps without one tackle, one hit, one sack, Dunbar reiterated they’re pleased with Williams’ play. “He’s doing a good job of coming off the edge and the quarterback’s getting rid of the ball,” Dunbar said. “It’s kind of hard because the defense we play is predicated on what they give us and who’s going to be the hot guy. Yeah, you wish you had more tackles, you wish you had more sacks. But I think he’s helping our defense based upon the things he’s doing.” Dunbar cited linebacker Manny Lawson’s hit on Dallas’ Kellen Moore – the team’s only registered QB hit in the game – as one such play. Williams covered tight end James Hanna out of the backfield, eliminating the hot read and Moore was walloped. The coach asserts Williams “has been around the quarterback” and didn’t hesitate on if Williams has been giving his all. “Yeah, I think so,” Dunbar said. “He’s out there doing the things we’ve asked him to do. … It’s a little bit different than what he’s done in the past, but I think it’s working for us.” http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/12/31/marios-swan-song-with-bills-is-near/ The coaches themselves had no problem with what Mario accomplished in 2015 mostly because they didn't ask him to pin his ears back and rush the passer. Instead, they asked him to be mostly a 5 technique DE in Ryan's 3-4 two gap scheme. If you don't comprehend what that entails simply google it. The 2015 Buffalo Bills didn't finish 31st in sacks because of the players or their lack of effort. They finished that poorly because of the scheme the coaches decided to run all season. Nothing less, nothing more. The sad reality here is Bills fans are attempting to reconcile the fact that the team just lost the 2nd best pass rushing DE in the entire 50+ year history of the franchise.

How much effort will Rex Ryan and his brother put into coaching the team this year? Will we see an undisciplined mess for most of the season like last year? Will the revenge factor fade now that Rex beat his old team last year 2x and knocked them out of the playoffs? So much depends on keeping Incognito and the players obtained in free agency / draft that remain to be seen. Then the Bills cut their best pass rusher in Mario and with nobody on the other side does Jerry Hughes start looking really bad with the penalties and hardly any sacks? I hope the Bills have a plan B...

Yea, good luck to this scouting dept replacing an all-pro LG like Incognito in the draft after the first round. Anyone else recall what this team tried to replace an above-average OG in Andy Levite with? Five mill for Chris Williams to play 3 games. Colin Brown cut after 6 six games and after the team watched him play in some real games. Doug Legursky as backup center who needed to start at OG was released the next off-season. Sam Young another dud at OG. Lots of fans singing the praises of John Miller in the pre-season and until he actually played. Erik Pears at RG was the worst idea ever!! Not resigning Incognito will have a far more reaching effect for the entire line then just losing one player. It will hinder both the run game and Tyrod's development and also make both players on either side revert back to what they looked like in 2013-2014 or worse if they think Cyril Richardson will fill that role.

It is if you think you can find them in the later rounds. The team has to actually acknowledge they would be willing to spend a first round pick on an OG like the Bills did when they drafted Ruben Brown. Levitre was a second round pick and then not even the first second round pick that year. LT Cordy Glenn was a second rounder and looking back the Bills were exceedingly lucky to find him in the 2nd and that might be because some teams projected him at OG. So, this team drafting so few QB's with first round picks over the last 30 years is a big reason why they haven't found another Jim kelly too. Things look to be changing at OBD with the thinking about the O-line mostly because this team in the past would have never tagged Glenn for 13.706 mill! The real problem is they are quibbling over a few mill for Richie who is on his last contract. Now here is the rub! Should the team fail to sign Incognito (and it sure looks that way as of now) both Wood and Glenn will probably revert back to their 2013-2014 play and should that happen then neither player will be worth anywhere near what they are being paid. The past regimes thinking that OG's are a dime a dozen, you can move any OT to OG and be successful, you can find interior O-linemen in the later rounds. Those regimes didn't realize that a quality OG will make the players on both sides look better. Which is probably why recently no RT has looked to be worth a damn.The old saying that no man is an island is fitting because those young OT's have difficulty playing with "not so good" play from the RG's next to them. The really sad thing is that even now after watching first hand what a quality OG will do for a team and yet they are still balking at paying Incognito what he is worth.

Yep, and it didn't help that when 25+ year vet O-line coach McNally retired that Jauron chose to promote from within instead of hiring another veteran line coach. When a defensive coach left the team it was always a seasoned veteran coach that was hired to replace them. That was Jauron's MO and I think he was afraid to hire any experienced offensive coach for fear they would take his job as HC. My fear is the only way real change will take place on this team will be to finally hire that NFL experienced senior football man at the top of the chart. Then leave the head coaching hires and all football personnel matters to him. Although, it might be a long while before that happens because the fangs are already in pretty deep. On another note, I think Rex Ryan has actually been good to the offense and the O-line in wanting and getting Tyrod Taylor and taking a chance with Incognito when nobody else would. Then last off-season Ryan went after OG La'el Collins but lost out to the Cowboys. Oh my lord the addition of Collins and Incognito that would have improved that line so much more. I would have loved to see that young man running around pancaking people all game for the Bills. Anyway, things are not looking good on the Incognito front and should he leave things may really go south fast because both Glenn and Wood will regress again. Imagine how things will look when the team backs up a truckload of money for the LT only to see the line look like it did in 2014. EDIT: Let's not forget Langston Walker who couldn't make it to the line quickly enough to run the no-huddle offense in preseason so Jauron cut him two weeks before the opener...then they scrapped the no-huddle after two games. The good old days

The Buffalo Bills offensive lines have been bad for the most part since the 90's and a big reason why no Bills QB has had great success. The general thinking at OBD over that period of time been offensive line players simply aren't worth the going rate. The team didn't keep LT Jason peters and there he is with the Eagles at 10.35 per. The team didn't keep LG Andy Levitre and there he is with Atlanta making 7.8 mill per. Now it looks like Peters is underpaid and Levitre is overpaid. The team did have a halfway decent line in 2012 with Glenn at LT, Levitre at LG, Wood at center, Urbik at RG, Pears at RT and the weak links there was clearly on the right side. Sadly, that line didn't stay together for more then one season in an area where continuity is so important. This past years line graded at #9 overall and it showed last season by being the #2 team in rushing attempts and #1 in rushing yards. That grade came mostly because the left side of the line was so good. "9. Buffalo Bills (22nd)Pass-blocking rank: 11th Run-blocking rank: 10th Penalties rank: 14th Stud: You think the Richie Incognito moved paid off? Not only did he show no signs of rust, but he was our top-ranked left guard on the entire year. Dud: It’s never easy for rookies, and John Miller really proved that with a poor year that saw him yield too much pressure and get beat too often in the run game. Summary: Quite the turnaround for this group. Spearheaded by the arrival of Incognito, it’s really a tale of two sides. On the left, their pairing is as good as any in the league, and on the right, it’s as bad as any. In the middle, the ever-present Eric Wood had a very useful year for a line that has a nice blend of youth and experience." http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2015.htm I can only wonder if 2016 will be a repeat of the 2013 season in that the team will lose Incognito and try and replace him with scurbs like they did with Andy Levitre. The Bills need to not only keep incognito and upgrade the RT, RG positions. Tyrod Talor needs a top line to help him develop and keep that run game going strong.

Exactly! and then dropping him into pass coverage more then he was used to doing didn't help. Most fans just don't understand the difference between the two schemes. Wade Phillips also runs a 3-4 but with a very effective pass rushing one gap scheme.

I agree. But this is the Buffalo Bills who have a history of thinking OG's are a dime a dozen. I kinda knew he would want the going rate for a top OG and he played well enough last year to deserve it. The top is 8.5 and Cogs sure as hell is better then Levitre who is getting 7.8 from the Falcons. The demand is far greater than the supply of quality OG's. Pay him or he is gone and Glenn will look not so great with some bum next to him.

and that's being kind! Ever since that Raider game for a playoff berth in 2014 when I watched Urbik get driven five yards into the backfield on a run play by some scrub DT...all I could think is how does this player even have a job in the NFL. Ok pass blocker at times and a very poor run blocker.