Nihilarian

I agree. Now just imagine how good that 2015 Bills secondary and total defense could have been with the fierce pass rush of that front seven the Bills had in 2014.

Good points. On paper, the Bills have some of the best player talent in the league and should have been playoff bound last year! Last year wasn't just about injuries or bad luck like it used to be with head coaches like Jauron and Gailey. This team swept the Jets and Dolphins and has enough talent to give the Patriots a serious run. And yet they didn't! If only the team was motivated and prepared enough to beat teams with good QB's out of the AFC East. That first game against the Patriots in week two the defense looked like it was in a "prevent defense" most of the game and with no pressure on Brady he set a Bills franchise worst 466 passing yards allowed ever! That bad defensive scheme with such a total lack of QB pressure wouldn't be the only thing to define the 2015 Buffalo Bills. It was all the penalties on both sides of the ball. It was the noticeable lack of defensive team preparation against non-AFC East opponents. It was defensive play calls coming in late and the late player substitutions. The defensive players not looking ready when the ball was snapped. If this new head coach hire was his first year as an NFL head coach then some of those things can be forgiven. But this hire with an experienced NFL Head coach who was supposed to be a defensive guru who wouldn't try and put square pegs into round holes... then went ahead and did just that with the defensive line. That 2015 front seven was not built to run zone blitzes or two-gap run stopping and yet we saw quite a bit of those all last year. Yes, the 2016 Buffalo Bills have the player talent to reach the playoffs! Sadly though it looks like they don't have the defensive coaching talent to even come close and wasn't that the biggest reason as to why this current coach was hired? Like a fool I bought into Rex Ryan's promises last offseason to see the Bills in the playoffs and have the number one defense in the league. Not this year!

Flacco is 6'6'' 232 lbs and won some SB's. Brock is listed at 6'7'' 245 lbs. Cam Newton is 6'6'' 260 lbs, Big Ben is 6'5'' 240lbs, Phillip Rivers is 6'5'', Glennon is also 6'7''. EJ is 6'5''. Russell Wilson is 5'11'' and Taylor is 6'0'' I might be the only guy here who likes Osweiler and the guy did go 5-2 running that Broncos team the last seven games of the season to get them in the playoffs. He won games against two playoff teams in both the Patriots and Bengals in overtime. Thus showing he can perform well in big games. Then for the draft, the Texans went out and got two WR's an OG and a RB. In free agency, they got the Brock, OG Jeff Allen from KC and RB Lamar Miller from Miami. I like the Texans chances to make the playoffs again this year. I like Tyrod Taylor too. The thing is, I'm a bit skeptical that the Bills can be the number one team in big plays again now that opposing teams have the film on Greg Roman's offense. The Bills were 31st in 3 downs and out percentage on offense last year and those big plays are what made that offense so good. Ahhh, September can't get here fast enough.

Good for him and hope he does better at Bama.

Man o man, you guys and your lists. That writer Brad Gagnon really has Taylor way to high on his list IMHO. I can't think of another QB besides cam Newton that was in such a run-centric offense and when forced to carry the game without the rushing attack Taylor didn't fare so well and lost those games. Denver QB Brock Osweiler led a comeback in a huge OT win against the Patriots that helped the Broncos get home field throughout the playoffs. and he even had comparable stats to Brady in that game. Granted he didn't face the rush that Brady faced and yet he was a big reason for that win and for that crazy money contract he signed with the Texans. FireChan got it about right IMO with perhaps the exception of Fitz (who had a career year with almost 4k yards and 31 TD's) and Osweiler. Even BB's Talleywhacker threw for 4200 yards and 24 TD's on a bad Miami team. Bortles also had 4400 yards and 35 TD's on a bad Jags team. The 2015 Bills were 31st in passing attempts and 28th in yards. But they were also the number one team in the league in big plays with runs over 10 yards and passes over 25 yards.

Au contraire! In 2009 that NY Jets defense blitzed around 50% of the pass dropbacks and went to around 35 to 30% before he left the Jets. So, when he got here and blitzed almost less than 10% the majority of last years games I was more than taken aback. This is the man that stated "I'll bring everyone known to man at you" and then when he got to Buffalo he did just the opposite. Wait! That's not entirely true as he did blitz a lot on that season opener against the Colts (around 50% of the dropbacks) and then just didn't blitz much after that game. (except for that second Patriots game and again it looked like the Bills got pressure on Brady on about 50% of the dropbacks) “Nope," he said. “I mean 30th in sacks is not real good. Wow. But nah, I expect us to get better. I really do. I expect us to get better and we’ll see. Like I said, it’s different for me. I’ve never been in this situation. You know I think the worst I’ve ever been in this league is 11th. http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2015/12/02/rex-ryan-goes-defensive/76668578/ Then when Ryan saw his team not getting many sacks went on the defensive and said sacks aren't that important and said that we just want to win. Well, sacks, QB pressures, hits, hurries on the QB all go hand in hand in disrupting the opposing offense and is exactly what made Ryan's defenses so good in the past. Kinda why I think the Bills wanted him in the first place. What I think Ryan really needs to stop doing is dropping Dareus and Kyle into pass coverage. Last year against the Chiefs, Marcell Dareus was dropped into pass coverage on two of Alex Smith touchdown throws! I know these defensive guru's love their zone blitz, but dropping a 331 DT* elite pass rushing DT into pass coverage seems rather insane to me. But hey, maybe that's just me. When you sort everything out it looked like Ryan ran a two-gap run-stopping scheme more than any other scheme last year. I think this was a big reason why the sacks fell off the chart. The players that the Bills drafted with their first two picks this year look to fit that 3-4 two-gap scheme. Now, Ryan could easily change things up and start calling more one-gap scheme plays (Like Wade Phillps and the Broncos ran last year). I really do want the Bills defense just to get back to being as good as it was in 2014 and if that happens this team could find itself in the playoffs this year.

Interesting take on the defense, draft and probably should have stopped there. You made some good points in earlier posts. Rex Ryan has a lot to prove this season and Whaley went out and got him the players he needed to make his 3-4 scheme work so he will have little excuse should the defense fall on it's face again this year. Ryan is lucky he has Whaley as his GM because if nothing else... Whaley knows defensive talent, IMO. Bills fans in denial don't care to compare the 2015 defense against the 2014 defense simply because it doesn't fit into their optimistic rational for the upcoming season. The simple facts are that Ryan boasted that the Bills would be in the playoffs in 2015 and not just have the number four defense but have the number one defense. "I'm not going to let our fans down. I am not going to do that. I know it's been 15 years since the Bills made the playoffs. Well, get ready, man, we're going. We are going." "Fourth in the league is probably a little disappointing, to be honest with you, because that's not where my expectations are. I know we'll lead the league in defense. " http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/22828/playoff-promise-among-rex-ryan-statements-that-will-likely-prove-false We're going alright, going to be 8-8 with arguably the best defensive line talent in the league. With a team that led the NFL in sacks fell to 31st in the league in one short year. "We play defense based on our personnel, not just the scheme. I don't try to put a square peg in a round hole. "The reality: Ryan has tried to fit a square peg in a round hole." "Ryan has declared -- stubbornly, one might say -- multiple times that he and Thurman will "run our defense," essentially placing blame on the players for not picking up the system." And, to the fans here that adamantly state that team president has had no influence over the football side of things. It was almost a year ago, in early January, when the Buffalo Bills called Rex Ryan back for a second interview for their head-coaching vacancy. Team president Russ Brandon was so impressed that he told owner Terry Pegula not to let Ryan out of the building. Like I said, Rex Ryan has a lot to prove this year just with the defense and now he has, even more, player talent to run his 3-4 two-gap scheme or whatever scheme he chooses to run. Here is hoping the Bills defense is a top five unit again and is back in the hunt for leading the league in sacks. This team has far too much talent to be 8-8 again with a middling defense.

Yet the 2013 Buffalo Bills were #2 in rushing yards and #1 in rushing attempts with EJ, Tuel and Lewis at QB and they ran that brilliantly designed hurry up and punt offense. In that 2013 season, the Buffalo Bills were 25th in three downs and out percentage. In 2015, the Bills were 31st in three downs and out percentage! The difference being that last year's team also led the league in scoring rushing TD's, a 4.8 YPC Avg and more big plays passing by the QB. The 2015 Buffalo Bills were the #1 team in the league in "big plays"! Meaning rushing plays that are over 10 yards and passing plays that were over 25 yards. This upcoming season opposing teams have plenty of film on what Greg Roman did with the offense in 2015 and unlike Nathanial Hackett, he didn't pound the ball up the middle 70% of the time or force the QB to carry the offense every game. Roman's offense is more sophisticated and complex and while defenses never really shut down his rush offense in San Fran they did manage to give his QB Colin Kaepernick quite a bit of trouble. If you look back at that 49er history since 2011 under Harbaugh. It wasn't the so much the offense that carried that team as much as it was the defense. 2010 before Harbaugh 24th on offense (#19 in rushing) (18th in passing)- 13th on defense (6-10) Alex Smith at QB (3-7) 2011 26th on offense (#8 in rushing) (29th in passing)- 4th on defense (13-3) Alex Smith at QB. (13-3) 2012 11th on offense (#4 in rushing) (31st in passing)- 3rd on defense (11-4-1) (Alex Smith 5-2 / Kaepernick 6-2) 2013 24th on offense (#3 in rushing) (30th in passing)-5th on defense (12-4) Kaepernick at QB (12-4) 2014 20th on offense (#4 in rushing) (30th in passing)-5th on defense (8-8) Kaepernick at QB (8-8) 2015 31st on offense (21st in rushing) (29th in passing)- 29th on defense (5-11) Kaepernick (2-6) Gabbert (3-5) If you look back to the 2009 NY Jets you would see the same sort of stats. #1 defense and #1 in rushing while being 32nd in passing with rookie Mark Sanchez at QB. For 2016, Ryan's defense has to get much, much better at getting pressure on the opposing QB and better than 31st in sacks. Which will, in turn, help out the Bills secondary to allow less passing yards and help create more big plays by turnovers. Just by calling more blitzes and running a one-gap scheme more often should help quite a bit. I have no idea what happened to that Rex Ryan "we will bring everyone known to man at you" defense last year. Here is hoping that the new additions to the Bills defense help get that Buffalo defense in the top ten. Taylor still needs help at WR (Anquan Boldin?) and on the right side of that line at RT. JMO

Trent Edwards had his year and games. In 2008, the Bills opened the season 5-1. Bills fans were saying Trent looked like another Joe Montana after starting the season 4-0. Trust me they were... and right in this forum! That helmet to helmet hit that Edwards took by Adrian Wilson in that week five Arizona game would have been a fine or even bannable hit by today's standards. Some fans say that he should have thrown the ball away after he saw the safety coming unblocked and others say it took great fortitude to stand in there and throw a completed pass while taking on that hit. Two seconds was all he had to decide! That hit defined Edwards career IMHO, mostly because while he did return to win the next game against the Chargers. Edwards play went downhill after that Chargers game and probably because he was still suffering from concussion symptoms. Now, in today's game players that suffer a serious concussion go through much, much different protocols and Edwards probably should have sat out most of that year if not the entire year to fully recover. I think a lot of Buffalo Bills QB's over the last fifty-five years have been defined by the offensive talent around them.

No offense, but I watched Joe play at the stadium in that 77 season, Fergy went 3-11 while playing in a full 14 games. Then throwing 12 TD's and 24 INT's and that man would hang his head with every bad throw...at times he looked so frustrated that he would just throw the ball up for grabs at the end of a bad series. He also went 1-10 under Kay Stephenson in 1984. Chuck Knox got there and really resurrected his career and then playing in that Chargers playoff game with a bad leg showed he had a heart of a lion! But even in that 1980 playoff year he threw 20 TD's and 18 INT's and again in 81 with 24 TD's and 18 INT's. 79-92 career. -------------------------------------------------------- The only thing that sucked about Daryle Lamonica (nicknamed "the fireman" because he would come into games that Kemp would get hurt in and win the game) was that Wilson traded him to the Raiders! In his six years with the Raiders, they went to 5 playoff games and a Super Bowl! 66-16-6 career ----------------------------------------------------- I agree with this and had the Bills built a better line they would have made the playoffs with Bledsoe at QB. If well protected he would rip any team a new one. Once flustered from a heavy rush he would start seeing phantom rushers...kinda like JP used to do all the time. 98-95 career ------------------------------------------------------ I also agree with this! This man coming off the bench in week 5 and then going 7-5 behind the league's worst offensive line. Then Orton throwing 447 times in those 11 games with the Bills having almost no rushing attack during those games also tells me that the dufus OC was forcing the QB to carry the offense. 87-82 career

You do realize that the Bills were 31st in sacks last year under Ryan after being 1st in the league under Schwartz and 2nd in the league under Mike Pettine in 2013. Last year the Bills were also 32nd in defensive hurries! Speaking of Pettine, one could look at the stats and say that Mike did better than Ryan and he also ran mostly a 3-4 scheme. Ryan will need to change up a whole bunch of things in his scheme to actually make life miserable for opposing QB's this season. Bills fans also need to remember what happened in those last two games of the 2015 season. Against Dallas, the Bills were playing against a QB making his first NFL start and it showed. The simple truth is the Bills were only able to get one hit on Dallas QB Kellen Moore and no sacks. It was more that Dallas QB's ineptitude that lost the Cowboys that game than anything else. Veteran Dallas QB Tony Romo playing in that game and it's an entirely different animal and result. Then the game against the Jets the Bills defense did play very well despite all the injuries to a bunch of Bills starters. But then, we all need to remember who were the NY Jets QB and OC in that game. Rex Ryan has owned Chan Gailey and Fitz while he was the HC of the Jets and Ryan, seemed to be particularly motivated to have his team prepared to face the team that fired him. It really does remain to be seen if Rex and his brother can get the 2016 Buffalo Bills defense as good as expected and I expect it to be better than just top ten. Plus, getting back on track with leading the league in QB sacks, hits, and hurries. This 2016 team has far too much defensive talent on it to be near dead last in sacks and middling stat wise again.

The thing is being an NFL O-lineman is a very difficult job and those guys don't get the credit they deserve at times and vice versa. It's a team sport and the line is really only as good as the lines weakest link because opposing teams will switch around their strongest pass rushers to play against the offenses lesser talented players. What really stinks for those line players is because they need to play as a solid unit to be successful they are so dependent on each other to grade well in both pass and run blocking. Plus, they are also dependant on the entire offense to be successful, coaches who set up the scheme and game plans, game plays. The QB, the RB's, the TE's, the WR's because all offensive players are required to know how to properly block. While I agree that people not privy to the play call or blocking assignments might not know the assignments. It's also not that difficult to give a bad grade to an offensive line player who gets pushed back five yards on a run play by some scrub D-tackle. Which is exactly what happened to Kraig Urbik in that 2014 Raider game with a playoff berth on the line and it didn't just happen once. Think about what has happened the last few years with the Buffalo Bills offensive line and the players on it. Take 2013 for an example, LT Gordy Glenn in his second year graded a (+23.0) by PFF and that weak link in LG Colin Brown who replaced Andy Levitre for the first five games graded an astonishingly bad (-30.1) and the backup center Doug Legursky replaced Brown also played poorly (-12.5). The other players on the line were C Eric Wood, RG Kraig Urbik, RT Erik Pears. BTW, Brown and the backup OG in Sam Young were both outright cut from the team after week six. Young played in four games and after he replaced Brown in week six he immediately gave up a sack and two hits. The overall line graded 22nd in the league. For most of 2014, the Bills fielded the very worst offensive line in the league with Pears at RG who grade at (-25.0) LG Chris Willams was a waste of money at 5 mill guaranteed as he only lasted three games before he went on IR and Urbik took over at LG. Both Glenn (+6.5) and Wood suffered in grades because Urbik was just not that good. A seventh rounder in RT Seantrell Henderson got the starting nod over the second round pick in Kounandjio who really never saw the field. The 2014 line ended with a grade of 30th in the league. Then in 2015, the Bills signed LG Richie Incognito (+9.4 after week 5) who played his best football last year and was named to the pro bowl. His stellar play also elevated the play of both Woods and Glenn to make the left side of that Bills line one of the best in the league. Rookie RG John Miller was the weak link of the line while he was in there (-10.6) clearly that grade was mostly for his pass blocking as he was pretty good at run blocking. The 2015 Buffalo Bills ranked 9th overall per PFF. I don't think PFF's grades are perfect, but I also think they are closer to the reality that many give them credit for being. Now, If Bills line coach Aaron Kromer is as good as some say he is that right side should improve for Buffalo this year. Just my two cents.

I have no doubts that Whaley found the best defensive players in the draft to fit Ryan's defensive scheme. No question that Whaley knows defensive talent.

I agree and adding a better player at RT might just allow Miller to further develop at RG. Alas, Doug Whaley was basically forced to allow Ryan to get the players he needed to run his 3-4 scheme. I keep hearing that the team will draft best player available and yet went for need with those first three picks. #1 pick, Lawson is considered an excellent run defending DE. Now we learn that Lawson might need shoulder surgery at some point that will sideline him 4-6 mo. and he says he can play with it so he could put it off until next year. Clemson connection here because Ryan's son is attending Clemson. #2 pick, the Bills gave up two fourth round picks to move up 8 spots to draft ILB Reggie Ragland! So another player that fits Ryan's 3-4. Ragland dropped into the second because it was discovered he has an enlarged aorta but was cleared by the Bills medical staff. #3 pick, Adolphus Washington a DT who is projected to play the 5 tech at DE, or 3 tech at DT or 0 tech at NT and is more of a pass rusher than run stuffer. This kid pulled a Warran Sap after a bowl game win and was arrested for it. Looks to me like the Bills took three players whose value had dropped because of different problems. All three could be starters once the season gets here and that #3 pick could be replacing Kyle Williams at some point. I'm not really a big fan of this draft simply because I have my doubts about Ryan building a top defense in Buffalo with any players. Also, Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith entered the NFL and had some success their first seasons. Then for whatever reason after starting out decently those two QB's under Ryan were pressed to throw more and failed miserably. I only hope the same doesn't happen with Tyrod. Anyway, it's just a darn shame the Bills hired Rex Ryan who couldn't make that all-star defense work. So now the Bills retooled in the draft on defense to run his 3-4 instead of a WR, an OT and perhaps even drafting Paxton Lynch or even gotten the Cowboys 2nd and 3rd in giving up that pick at 19. Time will tell.

In regards to that Panthers offense. The Carolina Panthers have a... very... unique... player at QB who is 6'6'' 260lbs and won the MVP this past year because of his ability to escape the rush and make plays with his arm and legs. That Panthers offense was the #1 offense in points and #11 in yards and this with the only two skill players on offense gaining 1000+ yards in the process. TE Greg Olsen and Jon Stewart who had a combined 1008 yards from scrimmage. The 2015 Panthers went 15-1 and that only loss was to the Atlanta Falcons while Newton had a very unlike MVP game. Cam went 17 of 30 for 142 yards passing and ran with 7 attempts for 46 yards and one TD. That 8-7 Falcon team managed to shut down Newton and his receiver corps. The Panthers played without RB Jon Stewart in this game and despite rushing for more than they passed they still lost the game and ToP. If you could point to one single major factor as to the reason why the Panthers lost the SB to Denver, what would it be? I'd have to say it was all Broncos LBer Von Miller (MVP) and the Panthers inability to block him. Denver had 7 sacks on Newton in this game. Now that the world saw that you would expect the Panthers to shore up their line, right? In the 2016 draft, the Panthers drafted a DT with their first pick, then 3 CB's and a TE. Free agency= Signed C Gino Gradkowski to a three-year contract. Re-signed QB Joe Webb to a two-year contract. You would think that this team would make every effort to bolster the tackle position. In regards to the Buffalo Bills. Those superstar pass rushers on other teams aren't in cement as to rushing on just one side. Teams can and will overload their rush to the Bills weakest side and exploit it.

The one thing I'm very confident about is that Doug Whaley knows "defensive football" talent when he sees it. While some fans here have alluded to the fact that those first two draft picks are run more stuffing players rather than the pure pass rusher they lost in Mario Williams. This could be so that Ryan will have the players at DE / LBer he needs to properly run his two-gap 3-4 scheme. In my view, it wasn't just not being able to get the most out of that great talent on the defensive line. The entire defense had problems with play calls coming in late and late substitutions. Players in not being ready and set when the ball was snapped and there appeared to be communication issues almost all of last season. Not to mention the amount of penalties from the team on both sides of the ball. The defense did start looking more cohesive towards the end of the season even with all the injuries, but that could have been the result of playing the Cowboys with a QB making his first NFL start and the NY Jets that Ryan was very passionate about beating. That said, Rex Ryan should have no excuses this year should his defense not perform like expected. The offensive line has been seriously neglected over the past years and even with a great left side the line this past year they still had great difficulty in controlling the line of scrimmage and clock while maintaining drives. Being 31st means they were pretty bad at sustaining drives. Last year Greg Roman's offense with Tyrod at QB worked so well at times to get those big plays in the passing game while teams were trying to stop the run and that's what made the offense so good. The thing is, will that be sustainable this year with a more difficult schedule and now teams that have plenty of tape on the Bills offense? In my view, it's just a darn shame the Bills stopped attempting to upgrade with better players at RG, RT after they lost out on Bulaga and Evans. It would have been a better season had Harvin been able to play more than six games. That right side being so weak is like attempting to fight with one arm tied behind your back. The receiving corps also needs to be upgraded with a solid #2 big, tall red zone target WR. Can't have it all though when the team is in cap hell. Let's hope the defense does improve under Ryan this year.

The fact is the 2015 Buffalo Bills were the #1 team in rushing yards and #2 in rushing attempts. The Bills were also #1 in scoring rushing TD's and they averaged 4.8 yards per rush. While those rushing stats were great...we must also realize that because the Bills QB ran 104 attempts for 568 yards that it pads those overall rushing stats somewhat. The Bills were also 28th in passing yards and 31st in passing attempts. The 2015 Buffalo Bills were also 31st in 3 downs and out percentage at 186 drives with 53 going 3 and out! When you think about dominant running teams you would tend to think they control the line of scrimmage and clock and that really wasn't the case at all with the Bills last year. The simple fact is the right side of the line play was pretty bad and the left side basically carried the team. Miller was decent at run blocking and lousy at pass blocking and vice versa for Urbik. The RT play was pretty bad from everyone all season. What a lot of fans seem to forget is that in 2014 the Buffalo Bills fielded one of the very worst offensive lines in the league for most of the season and in my view is the biggest reason as to why the team lost to the Raiders in week 16 while attempting to gain a playoff berth. The Bills run game had only 13 rushes for 13 yards and every time Spiller touched the ball he was getting tackled five yards behind the line of scrimmage. The line also had great difficulty in protecting Kyle Orton all game. Doug Whaley's answer to the weakest and neediest area of the team in the 2015 draft was to select an OG in the third round. If it wasn't for Rex Ryan vouching for OG Richie Incognito the line would have been another horrid mess in 2015. Then to Incognito's credit, he played some of his best football with the Bills last season and really anchored that left side. His play upgraded both Woods and Glenn's play without question. The right side of the Bills line will still be a mess in 2016 and it should have been addressed in this year's draft or free agency. Because of cap hell, the Bills were limited in free agency and went full bore into helping Rex Ryan build the defense he wants in this year's draft. Still, the Bills did re-sign Richie and tagged Glenn. I can only imagine that Doug Whaley didn't want Ryan to have that same excuse that he used after he was fired by the NY Jets. The Bills did go 'all in" to get Rex Ryan the players he needed to build his defense and now let's see if it works. The bottom line is I feel the OPs pain and think this team has almost no quality depth for the O-line and the right side is still a huge question mark. I have no idea what this team will do if there is a serious injury to one of the left side of line players or if opposing teams start focusing on stacking the box to stop the Bills run game and thus forcing them to throw more than they want. Think what you will, but I can tell you that last season when the Bills were forced into throwing more than running they lost every game and Taylor didn't fare very well in those games.

and they just bent over the Cowboys to do it Great stuff!

Re-read the last sentence.

Yea, none of this years QB draft class should start day one. I don't like Wentz or Goff enough to make them the first and second pick in this year's draft and yet I think there will probably be 4 QB's going in the first round. Goff, Wentz, Lynch and Cook. The only guy I really like is Lynch and would hate to see him as a NY Jet.

Everything is smoke right now and the Jets are still hot on the trail of any QB they think can help them win.

Great, a top five team in talent that went 8-8! Rex Ryan took the most talented, highest paid D-line in the league and made them look below average in his craptastic scheme. and yet here the Bills FO is at attempting to rebuild the defense to fit a 3-4 for Rex! Now, unless Whaley finds another Lawrence Taylor / Von Miller type with the 19th pick the defense will still probably be a bad defense again in 2016. A darn shame that Doug Whaley is tied to a bum who only knows how run a defense in his own lame way.

I agree for the most part but I also I don't think it's completely meaningless as some QB's playing on bad teams can actually elevate the play of the players around them to get wins and that is an important factor. BTW, Luck didn't leave early as he redshirted his first year and he went 31-7 at Stanford and had a better winning percentage. I'm also not a big fan of taking a QB past the second round in the draft and then anticipating them to be a viable starting QB for the future. In regards to Hogan, I was merely feeding the fans that really like him. Earlier in this thread I made it known I wasn't really a big fan of taking QB's later in the draft.

I have no idea why that scouting report mentioned he lacks "great mobility" because as you say he has a decent 40 time (4.78) and has run designed QB option plays. Plus his 36 career wins are the most in school history and way more than John Elway who went 20-23. For those who want to further drool over what could be the Bills 4th round pick. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000646131/article/bills-gm-kevin-hogan-is-drafts-most-proready-qb-for-our-team