Nihilarian

It's not silly to me when I can remember Ryan Fitzpatrick literally running for his life for most of the first half of the 2010 season. You know, the season Buddy Nix stated that "you're going to think I'm crazy. But we're not that far away." Then the team started 0-8 and finished 4-12. To me, that 2010 offensive line looks better than this slew of scrubs.

Who said anything about trading him? I was saying keep the rookie on the bench for at least the first four regular-season games considering how formidable those defenses are. You know, so he survives to actually become a franchise QB.

Oh boy, how soon we forget about JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ and the last 20 or so QB's since the Jim Kelly days. JP was shell-shocked at the end and seeing phantom sackers. Edwards was concussed into oblivion. EJ was never given the chance to fully develop for several reasons and so on and so on down through the years. If you were to look back at the history of this franchise they built a quality offensive line three times in that 50+ year history and in those three times one was the AFL championship teams, one was during Chuck Knox's time and the last was the super bowl era. Knox came to Buffalo and he inherited a decent line from the Electric Co/OJ days and in 1980 going into his third year in Buffalo he drafted an OG by the name of Jim Richter in the first round who ended up playing in the NFL 15 years. He was a stalwart LG all through those super bowl years too. Bill Polian drafted a pro bowl LT by the name of Will Wolford and brought in a center by the name of Kent Hull who went on to become an all-pro. Jack Kemp had some great lines, Joe Ferguson had some decent lines and Kelly had some really good lines. If you want this young man to develop properly you can't send him to the wolves and hope he survives it like Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman did. Because so, so many other bright young QB's didn't survive throughout the years. Beane and McD look to be smart enough to know that since they made the playoffs last season there really isn't great pressure to win games this season. Do they want to, sure! Do they want to ruin* the future franchise QB, no! Lastly, looking at the limited amount of time AJ McCarron had in the pocket against the Browns starting defense and how little yards McCoy gained against them I'm thinking that Buffalo Bills starting line is worse than godawful. Allen played against the Browns second string. I'm also thinking that the Bengals defense is better than the Browns defense.

I want him to look great to show up the other rookie QB's. OTOH I'm sorta hoping he falls on his face so the team starts Peterman for those first four brutal defenses. Ravens, Chargers, Vikings, Packers. Let Nate get his butt kicked so his fans will start to say time for something different or perhaps he'll play great and Allen can actually sit and learn this year. Either way, I don't want to see that #7 pick wasted by having him get shell-shocked behind that crappy Bills line.

That's one take. Another is that when Chuck Knox built a playoff team by their third year he did it by building through the draft but he also brought in some older vets as "rah rah" guys like ex-Rams LBer Isiah Robertson, ex-Steelers WR Frank Lewis to bring in leadership to that young team. I realize the team already has Kyle Williams, although this might be his last season. In my view, there is no timetable for a talent like Mack as he will instantly change the dynamic of the defense with his pass rush. The Bills already have a top secondary but it won't be as effective if there is little or no pass rush. With Mack, opponents will game plan around stopping him and from what I've seen that won't be happening.

If you say it like this... The Bills traded their 9th overall pick in the 2014 NFL draft along with a 2015, 1st round pick, and a 2015 4th round pick to move up to 2014, #4 overall spot to select Sammy Watkins. The Buffalo Bills SPENT two firsts and a fourth on Watkins.

They can't afford him and Raider fans want Davis to sell the team from what I read.

The Bills already have one of the very best secondaries in the NFL and the addition of Mack it would be like 2014 all over again! Maybe even better!

Annnnd, exactly how did I compare them?

Those Dolphin dodos also didn't really know how to utilize Wake or Suh either... Rex did ruin him by asking him to play in his outdated, screwed up scheme. A premier pass rusher being asked to drop into pass coverage wasn't moronic enough so it was simply abusive to have him taking on a 300lb plus offensive tackle so the craptastic Bills linebackers could attempt to make a play.

I can recall watching Bennett tearing it up at Alabama and wanting to cry as Indy drafted O'Landa with their first-round pick. I was ecstatic when the Bills traded for him. I for one don't think the Bills overpaid for Bennett. I realize that lots do think the Bills overpaid.

My take on that cost is ...it's kinda crazy talk! I would first think that both Beane and McD are thinking that they have a top scouting dept and between the lot of them can find talent on their own without giving away the freaking farm. I'm also sticking with the thinking that the Bills FO isn't 100% certain they have their franchise QB for the next decade AND it's for certain they don't have a Bruce Smith on the other side to compliment that pass rusher. Plus, they still are lacking in other areas like WR corps and O-line. While Mack might actually be worth 2 firsts, a second and a player I kinda doubt this FO would pay anything close to that. JMHO

This said, perhaps Beane is waiting to see if Allen is "the guy" this Sunday and should he perform well enough to show he will be the starter. Then Beane makes a strong move going after Mack.

NFL scout, If that guy fixes his feet...he is Dan Marino! http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000950106/article/aj-mccarron-limited-rb-mccoy-battling-groin-injury

This wasn't a presnap read in which the QB would then perhaps change the play. All this was happening so fast that #26 was moving up while the QB was in the process of calling the play. This was on the tackle to alert the other players that a blitzer was coming with whatever predetermined signal they use like yelling, fire, fire, fire. (Yes, they still use that in the pros afaik.) This was also on the 2nd year tight end too as he should have noticed that a blitzer was coming and instead he focused on his route. As for the QB attempting to force a throw, it looked to me that as soon as Allen turned to throw it the blitzer was already on him and he had no time to do anything but take the sack. I'm not blaming Josh Allen for that sack as his linemen and TE should have helped him. Kudos to him when it happened again he sidestepped the blitzer, stepped up in the pocket and hit his WR for a TD.

Are you guys referring to the 2nd and 7 play with 9:46 in the 2nd qtr? The play was a play action with an RB's in the backfield #45 Marcus Murphy, and TE Jason Croom #80 was in motion to that side. The fake handoff was to Murphy and it was Crooms responsibility to pick up the free Blitzer as #26 of the Browns was not on the LoS but moving up to the line as the play was being called. Allen had his back to the Blitzer and thus #26 was on him before he could do anything. Perhaps Allen should have noticed #26 moving up to the line and called it out or perhaps he figured that's why the TE is there. Croom could have been the primary target of that pass because Allen was looking for him once he turned. IMHO it was the tight ends job to pick up that Blitzer.

What Baldy didn't mention in the short clip I watched was that Allen was going against the Browns 2nd string defense. ANNNND, Allen was sacked by an unblocked defender and was thrown to the ground on his head. The last thing Bills fans want to see is another Trent Edwards Arizona type concussion on Allen. That first string Cleveland defense hit AJ McCarron enough to knock him out for 8-10 weeks with a cracked collarbone. What a crap O-line!! What I also don't want to see is Josh Allen attempting to survive behind that craptastic O-line against the Ravens, Vikings, Chargers, Packers, Texans defenses. I hope Beane can do some trades or pickups off the waiver wire that will help the Bills QB's make it through this season.

So many Bills fans only remember the bad about Trent Edwards. But there was a time when this board was going nuts over him. In 2008 the Buffalo Bills started 4-0 and so many were saying that Edwards looked like a young Joe Montana. Then they went to Arizona and after three passes an unblocked Cardinals rusher sacked Edwards and drove his helmet into the turf resulting in a very serious concussion. Edwards was never the same after that play even though he won the next game against San Diego. That unblocked hit on Edwards was very much like the one Josh Allen took in that first series as a Brown player came unblocked on 2nd and 7 and flung Allen to the ground. No concussion this time. but all it takes is one bad one and he could be done for the year or longer ...like Edwards. Josh Allen is bigger, stronger than Edwards but even Aaron Rodgers has suffered concussions that have taken him out for long periods of time. Looking at the Packers over the last few seasons they might have taken a toll. After watching what AJ McCarron went through against that first string Cleveland defense with that Bills line looking like a sieve and not holding their blocks. This was against the CLEVELAND BROWNS! Not the Ravens, not the Vikings, not the Chargers, Not the Packers, not the Texans! Like The_Dude said, Take it slow. Get it right!

Wasn't quoting my post huh? Do you often quote other fans posts and then deny you did so and then make up stuff to fit the argument? I can't abide liars or supposed Bills fans who constantly attempt to bull **** real Bills fans. Go troll some other teams forums will ya! I'm done dealing with this. Here is my post that you directly quoted me from page nine of this thread. Notice the name at the very bottom? Here's the problem, from a research perspective. His completion percentage was still below 50 and he was against a vanilla D. You can cherry pick all the great QB's you like, but you really need to look at a larger sample size. There haven't been many, if any, QB's who have been able to improve upon a sub 60 per cent college completion percentage in the pros who were drafted in the last decade. Your looking at exceptions, not likely outcomes. That was the reasoning against drafting Allen, as a QB needs to hit at least 60 per cent to be able to start in the league (in today's pass happy era) and most rookies see an immediate drop in completion percentage in the NFL, and sometimes it never goes back up. I get that your excited, but if you want to argue stats you can't just cherry pick from the greats who played during a time when passes were less frequent due to different pass interference rules.There are very good reasons to be concerned with his accuracy, and people who are concerned are doing there research. Edited Sunday at 07:48 PM by MURPHD6

You quoted my post by stating from a "research perspective" and then proceded to state the wrong stats by stating Allen had a sub 50% completion percentage which was almost comical until I read further. Then you proceeded to lecture me that I "can't" cherry pick from the greats as all I was attempting to show that even some players with the very worst completion percentage can improve once in the professional ranks where they can get the proper instruction to fully develop their craft. From the 40% range up to 62% once in the pros. If you actually did some research into this specific player you would have realized that the norms of completion percentage criteria really don't apply for various reasons. Bills fans need to look at the circumstances surrounding this rookie like Beane and McD have done. If you had read the link that I posted stating why the Bills FO knew Allen was "right for them". I would then tend to think that you wouldn't continue with the nonsensical idea that every rookie QB must have a 60 percent completion percentage entering the NFL or they will fail. https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/step-step-how-bills-knew-allen-was-right-them In case you are too lazy to click the link and read the article. "But Beane, McDermott, and Daboll feeling good about Allen didn’t change his completion percentage. It didn’t cause his harshest critics to suddenly like him. 56.2-percent overall over two years as a starter. 56.3 his junior year before declaring for the draft. It also didn’t suddenly change the competition he faced to be able to explain it away a lot easier. How did the Bills brass view those concerns and still decide Allen was Their Man? In this day and age of instant video and in-depth stats right at your fingertips, they went back to the basics. Tracking every throw with their own pencil-to-paper looking at exactly what’s going on with and around him. “Because what we did was, first of all, look at every throw multiple times,” Beane said. “What were his options here? He had no gimme throws. There’s no, basically like hand-offs, the bubbles, and all that stuff. It was all a traditional pro-style, throwing the ball vertically, and you basically have to do your own stats. How many times did he bail out of there and throw it away, which is an incompletion? How many times did he have to do that vs. this guy and vs. that guy? And you also looked at what’s going on when he’s missing when he should have made the play, what’s going on? And to us, it was pretty clear it’s when his feet were not right. The most positive thing I saw, when he was at the Senior Bowl, his feet were in a much better position that week, he was much more accurate, not only during the week, but even in the game." This is what I meant when I stated that there were specific circumstances as to why Allen didn't have a better completion percentage in his two seasons at Wyoming and why some feel that those percentage numbers aren't really indicative of what Allen will do in the NFL.

If you weren't referring to my posts then why did you directly quote me? Then referred to the stats I posted as "cherry picking"? The reason for my lengthy post was brought on by perceived condescending lecturing stated from a "research perspective". Since we are both Bills fans I will attempt to refrain from pointing out a sequacious nature. Still, if you had read the post I linked I would tend to think that any concerns most Bills fans had with Allen's so-called accuracy issues would have been eased.

It's not just me. Both Beane and McD placed their faith, future in the hands of Josh Allen so I think there is a real reason for all Bills fans to be excited. Read this, It might help. https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/step-step-how-bills-knew-allen-was-right-them

You weren't alone as I'd say about 90% of the board hated the idea of drafting Allen before the draft. Right after the Bills selected him most Bills fans here acted like they were gut shot with that pick. I rejoiced when the Bills drafted him over Rosen as I had done some extensive research pre-draft on all this years QB's and fell in love with what Allen brings and not just with the arm. He wasn't the most polished QB of the bunch but had the highest ceiling. In his final year at Wyoming, he played with a bunch of rookies and carried them to an 8-5 record and a bowl win. The biggest drawback everyone had with him was with his accuracy issues and then you realize he only played a full two seasons in college which should allow him to improve those accuracy issues over time. If you take the time to research it so many great QB's started out with a bad completion percentage only to improve over time. Joe Montana started out with a 42.4 % and left ND with a 54.2 %. While finishing his NFL career with a 63.2%. Brett Farve was another with a horrific completion percentage in his first year at S Miss with a 40.7 % to see it rise to 54.5 in his senior year. Then finished his NFL career with a 62.0. Allen's accuracy issues mostly revolve around his footwork and he has worked very hard to improve that since he left college.

Brady has a career 63.9 comp percentage. Brees in his career has a much better 66.9 completion percentage. Brees has the NFL's best ever completion percentage. Warner, Cousins, P Manning, Romo, Rodgers are all in the 65 comp % range. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm I don't think it's that far fetched that Allen can someday attain a percentage between Brady and Brees. EDIT: I think what you are missing John is a big reason as to why Beane/McD drafted Allen over Rosen who as of now is the more polished QB. My take is that they think he can become a very accurate passer in the NFL given time to develop.

The thing is, as good as Darnold (64.9 comp%) and Mayfield (68.5 comp %)were in college with their accuracy. Josh Allen was the only QB in this year draft class to hit the crossbar from 35 yards away with one pass for Trent Dilfer's soul, science camp. As far as the accuracy issues with Allen goes, it was all about his footwork and none of his college coaches worked with him on that issue. After his final year in college, he worked with Jordan Palmer and started working on his footwork which showed in the senior bowl and at his pro day. During his time at the combine, he met with Mike Mayock and acknowledged that his footwork was whacked in college. Palmer has stated that he has fixed Allen's footwork and that Allen simply needs to keep working at it.