Nihilarian

Yes, we do know how bad this HC/GM and offensive staff are because they went into this season with this mess. Would you have allowed Josh Allen to start behind this mess of an offensive line? I know I wouldn't and just judging from last season I wouldn't have gone into this year thinking that Peterman would be the starter. The receiver corps is also a joke. Most Bills fans were complaining all offseason and the current FO did very little to correctly upgrade the QB, line, WR issues. Keeping McD is just prolonging the inevitable as we look at this season on offense and its really bad and it's not going to get any better. Out of 9 games Ravens, Packers, Colts, Patriots, Bears were all blowouts. So more then half and its not going to get any better from my view. So many player personnel mistakes by this regime and I've learned over the past twenty years that things usually get worse. All the penalties that are still happening each week 10 for 163 yards...are you kidding me? The bigger point is that what made the two teams that you mentioned so successful was that they fired the defensive minded HC and replaced them with a pair of the brightest offensive minds they could find. Usually first time, first year head coaches don't fare that well in the NFL and yet Sean McVay 11-5 after a 4-12 season by Jeff Fisher. The Bears who finished last season 5-11 under John Fox have already equaled that total at 5-3 under new HC Matt Nagy an Andy Reid disciple. If I'm Terry Pegula I'd be looking at the next best and brightest offensive mind to hire as HC before this coaching staff has another season to ruin that rookie QB we both like so much. The defense will be fine with Leslie Frazier as DC so the continuity of the defense should stay the same. Shame too because I happen to like McD. I just think he has no clue with the offensive side of the ball.

The thing is that both the Bears, Rams fired their defensive minded coaches and hired new offensive minded coaches to help develop those rookie QBs. John Fox, Jeff Fisher. Both those rookie offensive coaches hired good defensive coordinators to maintain a good defense. Vic Fangio, Wade Phillips. Chicago's defense (currently at #10) is way better then their offense right now. The Rams are #1 in yards, #3 in points on offense and top ten on defense. The point here is that this Buffalo Bills HC and offensive coaching staff are clueless and no amount of talent influx is going to turn them into the Rams offense or even allow Josh Allen to develop properly. Look how badly they screwed up this season and it didn't need to be a losing season or anywhere near this bad. Incompetence got the Bills to this point.

This is exactly right! Where is the good coaching on the Buffalo Bills coaching staff? Building an offense takes good coaching and looking at the decisions made by this team nobody on the offensive side looks to be competent enough to do that. Who told the HC that Peterman would be a solid a starter for the season while the rookie watches? What on gods green earth is Josh Allen going to learn from Peterman...except on what no to do? Penalties have plagued the team all year and the Bears game was no different with 10-163 yards. 2018, 70 penalties for 642 yards. 39 on offense, 19 on defense, 12 on special teams. Who told the HC that the offensive line would be okay with the current players on the roster before the season started? Because they are not even close to okay and steps should have been made to upgrade that line especially going into a season with an inexperienced QB in Peterman and more importantly, a rookie in Josh Allen. This is thorough incompetence at its best. The GM and HC should have known better and even though Beane is a rookie GM he doesn't get a pass for this offensive mess. How is this any different from what Whaley did to EJ? Brining in a QB coach who has previously never been a QB coach is just about as bad as not hiring one at all. No veteran QB on the roster until almost halfway through the season. Hiring an offensive coordinator who has been in the NFL for 5 years on four teams and never fielded an offense better then 23rd of of 32. Rick Dennison was a better choice as at least he didn't completely kill that #1 Bills running game and at least that 2017 offense scored 28 TDs. In 9 games so far the 2018 Buffalo Bills have only 7 TDs and 5 of those are by Josh Allen, 2 passing, 3 rushing. What does that tell you about this years offense? Bottom line is I don't trust this regime to build top offense or develop that rookie QB and like the Bears and Rams they need to fire this HC and bring an really good offensive mind to fix this offensive mess. Shame, because I like McD. He has just made some serious mistakes that you mostly don't survive.

Why tank when you just drafted the franchise QB and the 2019 draft looks to be very deep with defensive talent. What's the point? The OP has deluded himself into thinking that this was a tank season on purpose. He wants others to believe that this FO planned this season out to be 2-7 after 9 games or finish the season 2-14 / 4-12. He thinks this regime will still be employed after that kind of fail. Yet, these owners fired the guy they loved at 7-8 season before the final game. These men planned nothing of the sort and it was simply a complete screw up in many ways with the thinking that Nathanial Peterman would be a viable starter. That the offensive line would be just fine after losing Eric Wood and Richie Incognito mostly because Groy did okay in replacing Wood for a bit and Richie looked to have lost a step. They thought that the receiver corps would be okay in getting separation, getting open and catching the ball. They also thought that the ex Patriots assistant coach would make a great OC. That a WR coach who had never been a QB coach would make a fine QB coach. It's crystal clear to me that is GM and head coach have no clue what's happening with the offense. It would not surprise me at all to see McD fired at some point during the season along with changes to the offensive coaching staff. Going to be interesting to hear what these owners think of what's been going on with their team.

I highly doubt there was any intention of a tear down at any point. I just think that this FO/coaching staff didn't realize the consequences of losing a pro bowl LG and a pro bowl center at the same time. I wonder if they now realize how important a pro bowler at LG, C to have a quality functioning line and it would be even better with upgrades at RG, RT too. My take is McD put way to much trust in his offensive assistants in believing them when they said they would be okay with the talent on hand at QB (Peterman) and O line Groy, Bodine, Ducasse, Mills, Miller. As it turns out the scrub that Dion Dawkins was drafted to replace is one of the better players on that line. (low bar) If the Pegula's replaced Rex Ryan at the end of a 7-8 season I have no doubts that they won't hesitate to make changes this season too. McD might be on a very short leash at this point and I hope for his sake he makes changes to his offensive coaching staff. No TDs in 50 drives is ridiculous.

It makes no sense to tank a season unless you are looking to draft that franchise QB and the Bills drafted theirs in 2018. What's the point? I don't think this FO intended to tank as it just went that way due to a bad QB, O line, WR situation. This FO/HC and coaching staff must pay the consequences. 2-14 is looking realistic at this point.

Saban worked for Belichick when he was the HC in Cleveland and they are very close friends. Stating that, Belichick looks to be very loyal to the coaches he knows so it wouldn't surprise me to find out that old Bill put in a good word for his assistant coach (Def, WR, TE in NE) to give him another chance at being an OC. Perhaps because he knows that Josh McDaniel's might not stay in NE forever. What is surprising to me is why McD would hire an assistant coach from the Patriots. As, like I said that loyalty to NE runs deep and the only assistant coach I would hire is one that literally hates the Patriots... Like I do. Chuck Pagano recently stated he wants back in the NFL to beat the hated Patriots! Now that's my kind of coach and there has to be lots more out there! I personally wouldn't hire Pagano nor Rex Ryan either. Just saying that there are lots of coaches out there that hate the Patriots as much as I do and those are the coaches along with great talent I'd look to hire. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/10/27/chuck-pagano-hopes-to-coach-next-year-beat-the-hated-patriots/

I wonder how long it will take before we see Matt Barkley? How many picks by Peterpick?

Not sure about history of past teams. I can just say that Rex Ryan didn't outlive a 7-8 season. This team went from a low passing offense to a non passing offense and has regressed badly this year without Tyrod. That vaunted Bills #1 run game died along the way too. If McD doesn't make an offensive change by the bye week I can see the entire coaching staff getting the axe after the season or even at some point along the way. Shame too because I like what McD has done with the defense. He has no clue about the offense or offensive coaches.

I see your points and it looks like we will have to agree to disagree. While you think the talent is historically bad. I think it's the historically bad coaching making the bad talent look even worse then it actually is. I really do agree with you on Castillo as he really stinks! Also, why on earth hire a man who was a WR coach and has never coached QBs to be a coach for a rookie QB you spent a #7 overall pick on? I look at it this way. Changes could be made soon, or not. And if not, perhaps everyone goes at the end of the year.

The more important point was that an experienced veteran QB is finding the supposed bad receivers who are actually catching the ball and the line is blocking well enough to allow those throws. It's not like it's a constant jailbreak with Bills QBs running for their lives or getting sacked every play and this coming from a QB 4 weeks off the street. The debate here is it the players? the coaching? I say it's both. The current OC who has never had an offense above the 23rd worst in 5 seasons with 4 different teams...and is about right on par with coaching the worst offense in the league for the 2018 Buffalo Bills. I think McD will very soon (bye week) have an important decision to make because I don't see these owners tolerating a 2-14 season as they didn't tolerate Rex Ryan's 7-8 season.

All good points, save #3 in which you have an OC laying the entire offense on a rookie QB and then calling for mid to deep passes when he doesn't know how to set protections or read a defense much less have the time to throw those mid to deep passes. He did it to Peterman too. This is simply the wrong way to do things. Daboll isn't setting up an offense to help a rookie evolve, develop, learn. He ran his offense like he had an experienced veteran back behind center and the only time his game planning worked is when the team had the lead. Funny how the Bills could pound the ball so effectively against two pretty good defenses in the Titans, Vikings when they had a lead. Plus, all the penalties over the season 60 for 479 yards and most are on the offense, holding, false start, players not lining up correctly. This is simply a poorly coached offense. I watched the raiders at SF game last night and saw a kid by the name of Nick Mullens who had been on the Niners practice squad last year, and this year. He was pulled off that practice squad with only one week to prepare...he looked like Joe Montana ripping the Raiders a new one over and over. That's coaching! Both the Raiders and 49ers were 1-7 teams and this looked like what the 1-5 Colts did to the Bills, only they had Andrew Luck. You keep saying that the Buffalo Bills offensive players are historically bad and while I agree they are not all that good. Historically bad, no! I think it's the current Buffalo Bills coaching offensive coaching staff that's historically bad.

I asked myself how do you tank with a franchise QB starting... then realized I'm watching it.

Jeez, Carr stinks 12 of 16 for 124 yards...and some Bills fans think he would do better in Buffalo

The 49ers were holding so badly on that TD run it was downright ridiculous. Not called.

When you have a UDFA QB that has been on the practice squad come in and play like that it's not just luck. It's really good coaching.

Most head coaches like McD that are from a defensive background have no clue about the offense and usually leave those decisions to the offensive coaching staff. I gotta believe that the current offensive coaches are at fault for the wrong evaluation with Peterman and the HC is going by the consensus of his offensive staff. That said, I expect a OC coaching change pretty soon considering no TDs in the last 50 drives. This lack of offense is killing the entire team as the defense wears down from bring on the field so much. At the bye perhaps.

I keep reading from Bills fans defending the current OC that McVay or Kyle Shanahan couldn't make this offense work. Who the... is Nick Mullens and he has thrown 2 TDs already.

This whole thing is such a mess it reminds me of the year Peyton Manning was injured and what crapfest QBs they signed to fill in, Curtis Painter, Dan Orlovsky, Kerry Collins. Naturally they went 2-14 and drafted Luck with the first overall pick. To those that don't know the entire story it might look like the team is attempting to tank but that's not what happened. This team had some QBs I their sights from the start and the thinking was that Peterman was going to hold down the fort until Josh Allen was ready. So somebody clearly screwed up with that thinking. This FO wasn't going to get into a bidding war over a QB that they might not want starting the entire season. I can see why they didn't want Bradford, Bridgewater, Keenum. From what Steve Tasker had stated on his talk show was that this FO was looking at Derek Anderson even before they talked with AJ McCarron. They wanted Anderson to come in and be a mentor for Allen like he was for Cam Newton. This was also the reason they didn't bring in another veteran QB because they were waiting to hear what Anderson wanted to do. He was a priority for this FO because he had no problem not starting and was agreeable to mentor Allen. AJ McCarron let be known after he was in Buffalo that he wanted to start and wasn't amenable to mentoring Allen and thus the reason he was traded. Although, we fans gotta remember that Peterman looked darn good in preseason as his lone interception was a tipped pass off the finger tips of Ivory. He had a completion percentage of 80.5% which is insane. He was very decisive with very quick throws and the offensive line didn't look so bad with him behind center. Peterman had also thrown for the fourth best yards with 431. I can see solid reasons as to why this FO/coaching staff did what they did with the QB situation and they must think that there is still hope for Peterman or he would be long gone.

Don't think I've ever seen Daboll call a run play from a 5 WR shotgun spread. Fitz and Anderson are both backups and the latter only had 3 weeks to prepare and still threw for 290 yards. Anyway, You seem to have nonchalantly glossed over the more important points. 1st. With Daboll the run game goes out the window even being down by as little as 3 points as this happened for 3 quarters against New England. He likes to go pass happy! the score shouldn't change the game plan unless its late in the 4th quarter and the team is down by a ton. 2nd. Fails to see which RB has the hot hand and then utilize them to build a decent ground game, Ivory had the hot hand against NE with a 5.7 YPC AVG, and he saw only 6 carries. This has happened in other games too. Against the Colts Marcus Murphy a 13.3 YPC and he saw only 4 carries. Ivory was getting a 5.1 YPC and he saw 16 carries. He should have seen 25+. week 6 against the Texans McCoy was getting 4.6 YPC and saw only 16 carries. week 4 against the Packers McCoy was getting 4.8 YPC and saw 5 carries...WTF! 3rd. calling for mid to deep passes when he must know that offensive line won't give the QBs the time needed to make those throws. Thus the sacks, INTs, errant throws, throw aways. 4th. running the ball should be the top priority and finding different ways to get the best player on offense in space (McCoy)should also be a top priority. The way this team is running the ball up the middle or off left guard is making McCoy look bad. Against the Patriots he had 12 rushes for 13 yards. This tells me he is getting hit in the backfield and has no room to run. On the coaches! Daboll stunk in his former jobs as OC and he is even worse with less talent in Buffalo. No TDs on 50 drives! 87-200 point differential. Yikes!

Just because the team gets behind in points.. it should never cause them to throw the baby out the window with the bathwater. Run your game plan no matter what because they don't have an elite QB...as they have a rookie behind center. Throwing 33 times a game with a rookie QB (or an inexperienced QB Peterman, or a guy just 3 weeks off the street) and no run game is just plain stupid. While I agree that the talent is lacking...very much so. It's also lacking in the coaching with all the stupid penalties, the bad schemes, game plans. Did I mention that Daboll isn't the only culprit here as the line coach/run game coordinator Juan Castillo also stinks. This OC shouldn't be calling for mid to deep passes that require time to throw when the line can't conceivably give him that time. Thus all the sacks, throw aways, errant throws. Chan Gailey had Fitz, like Anderson who can read a defense and set protections. Anderson threw 41 times for 290 yards against NE and what did it accomplish? The Bills weren't down by that much against NE and there was no reason in the world to rush the ball only 19 times. 1st QTR down by 3 pts, 2nd QTR down by 3 pts, 3rd QTR down by 3 pts. The Patriots were keying on McCoy 12 rushes for 13 yards and yet Ivory 6 rushes for 34 yards a 5.7 YPC avg. SO WHY NOT RUN IVORY MORE? 19 rushes vs 41 throws was simply moronic. BTW, Gailey also ran a spread formation which was easier to run from because the defense was so spread out that all the RB needed to do was beat one defender and it was a race. That's scheme!

So many fans think the second half of the season will be easier for that rookie QB. 2-6 with 7 games to go. Chicago @Jets Bye @Miami Jets Detroit @New England Miami Cleveland 2-5 Oakland 1-6 NY Giants 1-7 Arizona 2-6 San Fran 1-7

Very well said! It almost makes me wonder if Daboll is still on Robert Kraft's payroll to throw games. Then I look at his history and say nah, he just sucks and always has. Now that Patriots game was week 8 and I'm kind of surprised a change wasn't made this week. Although you might be right in that he won't make it past the bye week. The team has an experienced NFL HC and OC in WR coach Terry Robiskie.

I did mention that the lack of talent was a problem and coaches are supposed to make do with what they have on the roster. I just think Bills fans are using this as the ONLY excuse and the talent isn't as bad as they make it sound. Look at the first five games to see the discrepancy between the run vs pass: Ravens 22 rushes vs 33 passes. Chargers 22 rushes vs 33 passes. Vikings 38 rushes vs 22 passes. WIN Green Bay 16 rushes vs 38 passes. Titans 43 rushes vs 20 passes. WIN Houston 27 rushes vs 29 passes. Colts 22 rushes vs 31 passes. Patriots 19 rushes vs 41 passes. Now, some of the passes Daboll was asking the rookie QB in to make are middle to deep passes with a bad line and knowing he has difficulty reading defense and setting protections. What's wrong with that picture? The Run game gets stuffed so he stops calling run plays and calls for more passes KNOWING he is making a rookie QB carry the offense. Now look at the Vikings game and the Bills rushed 38 times for 128 yards, 2 TDs. The thing is QB Josh Allen 10 rushes for 39 yards had both of those rushing TDs. Passing Josh Allen was 15 for 22, for 196 yards, 1 TD. Bills 38 rushes vs 22 passes which is a reverse of what happened in the first two games. The Bills got the lead early and the run game worked, the passing game worked and the Bills literally dominated the Vikings 27-6. So why didn't this happen in other games? It did against the Titans, the Bills rushed for 43 times vs 20 passes, controlled the clock more and won the game. Against the Patriots Anderson threw for 290 yards! Alas, 19 rushes vs 41 passes. Anderson can make some of those throws that Allen and Peterman don't see and it doesn't always help with no run game. What QB would work in this offense without the run game to support him? LeSean McCoy is by far the best talent on this offense and this OC needs to find a way to get him the ball in space in both the run game and pass game. Gailey could do it... why cant Daboll?

I think you're wrong. I think he is the biggest problem. Yes, the offensive line talent is lacking. Yes, the receiver talent is lacking. The thing is the offensive coordinator should be able to take these things into consideration and compensate. From what I've read here that Hapless Bills fan has posted is that in the first 5 games the Bills run game was far too complex and asking far to much from the current talent on hand. Bill Parcells would look over the weekly offensive game plan and throw out all but about 25 plays. This is how it should be setup for inexperienced QBs and the rookie. Pound the ball and move the chains by running. Once you have established that run game then you can pick and choose the passes you want as long as they are not complex. Running the ball works and it works even better if you have an elite QB. The Buffalo Bills don't have an elite QB so they should be focused on making what they do have work. Get McCoy the ball, running, passing. Forget the deep passing game and just focus on quick short passes to move the chains all the way down the field to the end zone...to score!