Nihilarian

My take is that this was Chan Gailey's player he wanted at #1 as he was his "waterbug"! While I also believe that Ralph Wilson was on board for this pick as he loved to draft RBs, DBs. Gailey saw this kid first hand as HC at GT while Spiller played against him with Clemson. Spiller was never noted to be an every-down back getting 20-25 carries a game. Although, he should have gotten that many touches a game From the press conference after being drafted by the Buffalo Bills. Wilson calls Spiller "a special guy" and says "the Bills have been a dull team over the last 10 years". Ralph calls the Bills "lucky" to get "one of the best players in the country." Asked him if he was fastest guy in the draft; Spiller responded, "yes sir." Spiller's Clemson team was 1-1 going up against Chan Gailey's Georgia Tech squad. Gailey at the microphone now referencing Spiller: perseverance, character, hard work, versatile "If you ask any defensive coach they'll tell you [how hard it is to play against that kind of speed]." Also said the blockers are going to be better because Spiller is so talented. From what I recall for that first start was that Spiller was named the starting RB as Lynch was nursing a knee injury and Fred Jackson had his hand in a cast. Spiller's full game stats were 7 rushing attempts for 6 yards. 4 receptions for 8 yards. The Bills quickly found out that Spiller couldn't block, couldn't find a hole and wasn't very good in the passing game either. Walterfootball.com had Spiller going #14 in the first round to Seattle. NFL.com had Spiller tagged as the first RB off the board. Spiller did have a pro bowl year in 2012 in 16 games with 9 game starts as Fred Jackson was the lead back until an injury shortened his season to 10 games. Spiller seemed to excel running the ball out of the shotgun snap in a spread formation. Mostly because as the opposing defense is spread out as well, all the RB needed to do was break a tackle and it was off to the races. His longest run that season was for 62 yards. It really was ridiculous to spend a #1 pick that year on a "scatback" type RB when they already had Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch at RB. Meanwhile, the team had previously traded away a superstar at LT In Jason Peters and replaced him with a 7th round pick in Demetress Bell. The team desperately needed a quality LT that year and didn't draft one until the 5th round. Kind of a big reason why Fitz spent the first half of 2010 running for his life and the season ended at 4-12.

For years I kept reading here that the Bills talent level has improved since Buddy Nix and yet the win level never really improved. Only two 9-7 seasons in 2014, 2017 with Kyle Orton passing, Tyrod Taylor running at QB and both with very different ways to get to that record. Now, we all know why this team took a nosedive this past year from 9-7 to 6-10 and it all starts and ends with the offensive line. Most Bills fans knew and stated this would be a bad year once the team lost Woods, Incognito. While the stats don't really show how bad the run game went into the toilet because the QB was the leading rusher. (631 yards, 8 rushing TDs with a 7.1 yards per attempt) Even with those astounding YPA numbers by the QB, the overall team sucked big time with a 21st in the NFL in YPA!! This down from 2017 in which the team was 14th in the league in yards per rushing attempt with Tyrod having a 5.1 YPA. Down again from 2016 when the Buffalo Bills were the #1 team in the league in YPA, #1 in rushing TDs, #1 in rushing yards with LeSean McCoy a 5.4 YPA. If this team is going to do better than 9 wins this season they need to drastically improve the talent on that offensive line. They need to bring back that top run game from 2016 with an influx of quality talent at just about every position on that line. Most importantly find a top center and left guard as they had with Woods, Incognito and replacing Miller, Mills at RG, RT. The solution for getting back to the playoffs is simple, yet not easy to find that superior quality offensive line talent. And a quality #1 WR, slot WR, TE too.

Not only that but they have an elite scouting staff that can find quality O linemen later in the draft and when they see someone they like early they draft them. Nate Solder was the 17th pick in the first round for the Patriots in 2011. The thing is Buffalo did draft Center Eric Woods in the first round, OG Andy Levitre in the second round in 2009 and both worked out well. Like with Jason Peters, this franchise didn't want to pay Levitre the going rate so they let him walk...then didn't adequately replace him. It wasn't until 2012 that Buddy Nix drafted Cordy Glenn in the second round and that pick also worked out well. Jason Peters is still playing LT for the Eagles. Now just imagine what a line with Peters, Incognito, Woods, Levitre, Glenn would have looked like. McD drafted Dion Dawkins in the second round in 2017 to replace Jordan Mills at RT and then Glenn got injured and went out for the season so Dawkins moved over to replace him at LT. Glenn played the first two games. When the Bills have used a first or second round pick on an offensive lineman they have worked out without question. It's all these players they draft after the third round that usually don't work out. As for veteran free agent linemen, the Bills have been burned big time doing this in the past as this is what pissed off Jason Peters that he demanded more money after the team brought in high priced free agents Derick Dockery, Langston Walker who both stunk and were being paid more than Peters. Anyone else recalls Whaley's attempt at free agency O linemen in Chris Williams who signed a four year 13.5 million dollar contract with 5.5 million guaranteed ...the guy lasted a whole 3 game starts before being benched and cut after the season. Buddy Nix also had a bite of the crap apple O linemen in Cornell Green who he signed before the 2010 season and lasted a whole five games before being benched/outright cut. Another 5 mill wasted. I'd rather see the team use the resources to build the line through the draft. Problem is they need to draft a OC, LG, LT and move Dawkins to RT or LG.

My take is that teams for whatever reason attempt to build the defensive line before the offensive line and use more resources on the defense. This looks like what the Buffalo Bills have done for almost two decades as each regime change required different defensive schemes and they kept rebuilding the defense over and over while neglecting the offensive line. The crazy thing about the superior talent on the offensive line is "IF" you find the right players they usually tend to last eight years or more. Eric Woods played nine seasons. Richie Incognito played roughly ten seasons. Andy Levitre is still playing for LG Atlanta after 10 seasons in the league. Teams just need to put the resources into their lines. The Indy Colts went from 22nd in the NFL with their offensive line to drafting an OG with the 6th pick and then went to #3 in the NFL. Thus giving Andrew Luck the time to throw for 4461yards and 39 TD passes. while being sacked a mere 18 times. That number is down from 56 sacks in 2017 with Jacoby Brissett at QB. The Colts have three first-round picks at LT, LG, OC and a second round pick at RT. The top five offensive lines in the league in 2018 were Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Indy, NE, Philly and the next five were Rams, Packers, Saints, Titans, Ravens. Just a note that the Patriots managed to neutralize the best defensive line player in the league in DT Aaron Donald who had 20.5 sacks in the regular season and only one hit on Goff in the SB. Like someone else stated the Buffalo Bills was pretty good with Glenn, Incognito, Woods and just needed better talent at RG, RT.

I never said that. In my first post in this thread, I said. "If this franchise goes defense with that #1 pick at #9 the ONLY position I can see that need for is a pass rusher." Meaning an edge rusher. Nobody (me) ever said that the team must draft an offensive line player with that #9 pick. However, last year the Buffalo Bills went need for their first two picks in QB Josh Allen and LBer Tremaine Edmunds. How did that work out? I'm in the Indy Colts camp in that they went OG with the 6th overall pick last year in Quinton Nelson and the kid went on to be first team all pro and made the pro bowl. That offensive guard also helped the Colts go from being PFF 25th best O line in 2017 to the 3rd best O line unit in the league. The Colts have three first round players on their line in LT, LG, OC and a second rounder at RT. That improvement in the line was a big reason as to why QB Andrew Luck threw 39 TDs and was sacked only 18 times all season. In my view, it's just as important or perhaps even more important to field superior talent across the offensive line vs the defensive line. The reason being is the top priority of the franchise should be to protect the most valuable player on the team in the franchise QB. The Bills have fielded superstars on the defensive line over the course of many, many regimes with little success and yet the last time this franchise was a viable playoff team they had a very solid offensive line.

Nobody doubts the Bills need up front. They have to make that line better and turn over every stone to do so. But forcing yourself to pick an offensive lineman at #9 regardless of your board would be a huge error. If, for example, you believe Ed Oliver to be the second coming of Aaron Donald and a center to be the next Eric Wood then you'd be crazy to take Eric Wood over Aaron Donald. Yes the Bills need at C is greater than their need at DT but you don't pass on perennial all pros for a guy who is less than that unless that guy is a Quarterback. 3 C'mon man, which one of those Rams linemen was making 135 million with 87 million guaranteed? Not one of them made the pro bowl or was an all-pro like Donald is... The sole reason that Rams offense was as good as it was in 2018 in being the #2 offense was because of Goff and Gurley who both made the pro bowl and Gurley a first team all pro. Now Gurly was clearly injured late in the season and wasn't the same player in the playoffs. If you clicked the link I posted you would have read that Patriots backup QB Brian Hoyer recognized the offensive plays/playcalling Rams OC/HC Sean McVay was running because he was running Shanahan's offense that he ran in Cleveland, same nomenclature. "Rams head coach Sean McVay was a tight ends coach for Kyle Shanahan with the Redskins from 2010-2013. When Shanahan was the offensive coordinator for the Browns in 2014, Hoyer started 11 games for him. After watching Manning's episode, he realized McVay's offense was the same as Shanahan's offense he ran in Cleveland. Hoyer continued to give the Patriots' defenders tips in practice. If the safeties showed they were playing up, Hoyer told Devin McCourty the quarterback is just going to catch the snap and throw it deep. The biggest piece of knowledge he gave the Patriots defense centered around blitzes." From Hoyer: The biggest play in the Super Bowl was when Flores called a blitz in the fourth quarter with a 10-3 lead. The Rams were driving towards tying the game, but in the face of all-out pressure, Goff threw a bad pass and Stephon Gilmore easily intercepted.

The point I was attempting to make about Rams DT Arron Donald, that the second highest paid defensive player in the NFL who had 20.5 sacks in the regular season. Had only one solo tackle with 4 assists and one QB hit that entire SB. This player is a 4x first team all pro, pro bowler. The Rams defense only had three hits on Goff all game. A big a deal as this player is... he basically was invisible in that super bowl. He didn't change the outcome of the game. He wasn't the same force in the biggest game of his career as he was in the regular season. The reason is simply that the Patriots have a very good interior offensive line that double, triple teamed Donald. That last sentence is what leads me to hope that this new Bills regime doesn't follow the error of past regimes in thinking that they need to spend that first round pick on an interior defensive line player and instead look to build the very best offensive line they can. Find an offensive center as good or better than Eric Woods. Find a left guard as good or better than Richie Incognito. Upgrade that right tackle position and perhaps that left tackle position. Build a quality offensive line that will properly protect their new franchise QB. There are currently projected six offensive line players that could go in the first round this year. No reason not to build the very best line they can. On another note, as for the Patriots defense looking so good. They might have an inside as to what the Rams were doing on offense from their backup QB Brian Hoyer. https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/breer-brian-hoyer-recognized-rams-offensive-scheme-his-days-browns

So, because the Rams offense which was #2 overall in the NFL in 2018 fell on their face in the super bowl you are touting that Patriots defense that was 20th in yards allowed is a strong reason defense still wins? It was the Rams game to win and their offense went into the toilet as they forgot to run the ball which was their strong suit all season. Then being down by only three points the OC went pass happy. (sound familiar?) The Rams QB Goff with 4600 yards passing and 32 TDs choked about as badly as any QB I've ever seen in a Superbowl. I don't give the Patriots defense props for Goff's poor play. At least we agree that the Bills are desperate for offense and I'm hoping that most of those 10 draft picks go for offense.

I agree. The 2018 Bills defense was #2 in yards allowed and 18 in points allowed. Meanwhile, the offense was 30th in both yards, points. This franchise is desperate alright and that is for offensive players. The Bills need a #1 WR, #1 TE as they have told Clay he is no longer in their plans. The offensive line needs a complete makeover with at least four position upgrades. Offensive center being the most important, then LG, RT, RG. Dion Dawson might remain at LT but then again they might choose to upgrade that position and move Dawkins to RT, OG. If this franchise goes defense with that #1 pick at #9 the ONLY position I can see that need for is a pass rusher. On another note, the very best DT in the league was Aaron Donald with 20 sacks and how much impact did he have in the SB? The 2014 Buffalo Bills had the #4 overall defense and were the best sacking/pass rushing team in the NFL that year. Point being is, the defense isn't going to have that much impact if the offense is among the worst and the defense can't get off the field.

Looking at the contract numbers this is another Beane "steal" and well done. I don't see this player at center and in my view is a direct upgrade for Miller at RG. Which puts an actual warm body in that position as Miller will be gone as a UFA.

Awesome pic! DE, OC, LT, OLB, MLB, OLB...WR, QB, WR/ST, RB. This looks like the 1991 AFC PB. Kelly was the MVP Four defensive players, six offensive players. Who would have thunk that the WR/ST player would someday be a pro bowl MVP

The Jets also thought they were getting a decent starter from the Redskins, hence the reason they signed him. Then there was a real reason they cut him. So, obviously, they didn't want him at OG or center despite the injury. So, now the Buffalo Bills have a cast off scrub O linemen the Jets didn't want. Is he an upgrade at RG over Mills who they are certain to let leave, probably. Injury or no. I was simply hoping for better than below average though ...even as a backup.

The signing of a Jets starter that played so poorly last year that the new regime cut him tells me not much has changed since the Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley eras of bringing in scrubs and hoping that they can get the job done. Some Bills fans are upset at this signing and justifiably so when you hope to see high-quality upgrades on the line and now Beane signs a "maybe" player. Maybe it was an injury and maybe he is just another bum like all the rest they signed last year. I know this is not the way I was hoping this FO would replace Eric Woods, Richie Incognito! The only position he might be a decent upgrade at is at RG as Mills is hopefully gone and even then I was hoping for better. I want to see this franchise build a dominant offensive line. This!

Looking back at the 2018 draft and free agents Beane hit a home run many times with first just being patient enough to wait to #7 to get the player he wanted all along. And not going for what the majority of this board wanted him to do ...which was a trade up with the NY Giants and giving up the 2018 draft plus a 2019 draft pick to the #2 spot to draft Josh Rosen. I still recall the majority of this board talking like they were ''gutshot" when they announced Allen over Rosen. Not only did Beane get his franchise QB, but he also stepped up and found the new, young, MLBer in the first at #16. Now, look at two other players the Buffalo Bills picked up in CB Levi Wallace, WR Robert Foster who have been drafted in the first round in many redraft posts. It's like Buffalo got four first rounders in 2018. Sure, both Beane and McD have made mistakes but it's how you recover from those mistakes and correct them. Going forward I'm hoping that the offensive line gets fixed, the receiver corps gets some quality upgrades at WR, TE. For McD to show he is worthy he needs to beat the Patriots with Brady and if he manages that he will be here to stay.

It's kinda funny how many WRs the Steelers have let walk over the years and they keep finding new, better guys that step up. From Plaxico Burress, Hines Ward (retired), Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Emmanuel Sanders, Antonio Brown and now Juju Smith-Schuster. I'd rather steal the Pittsburgh WR scout and draft my own new, young players to develop with Allen. I'd rather not have a deva in the locker room...didn't the Bills learn a lesson from Sammy?

It's not so impressive when you have so many weak links in the chain like the 2018 Buffalo Bills had on that line. Literally, every position looked like a liability at some point...even Dion Dawkins. https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/2018-buffalo-bills-all-22-in-review-interior-offensive-line

Scheme fit? You can run block, pass block or you can't and this kid outright stinks at this point. He might look a bit better with upgrades at RT, OC but he would still be the weakest link. The entire 2018 Buffalo Bills starting line needs to be revamped with maybe keeping the one decent player in Dawkins as an OG, RT.

Hey, I agree that Kelly was part of the reason for that loss. All through those "hurry up" offensive years, Thurman Thomas was 75% of the offense. The Bills actually ran the ball more then they threw it most of those glory years. Another problem as I see it was that this team was so used to dominating by putting up quick scores and then siccing Bruce Smith on the opposing QB. So what we all saw was what happens when that opponent decides to run the ball down your throat to keep your offense on the sidelines? NT Jeff Wright, 6'2'' 274lbs...can that be right? LDE Leon Seals 6'5'' 265lbs. RDE Bruce Smith 6'4'' 262lbs. Talk about smaller, faster...it's no wonder they could rush the passer and couldn't stop the run! Funny thing is the Bills beat the NYG at their stadium 17-13 in week 13 with both starting QBs getting injured and knocked out of the game. Giants starting RB Rodney Hampton rushed 21 times for 105 yards in that game. Soooo, in that SB it was the Giants backup RB too.

The Bills D just couldn't stop OJ Anderson in the third quarter and they went from the NY Giants 25 to the Bills end zone in 13 plays that ate up most of that quarter. Thurman had the better game but Anderson got the MVP nod. Walt Corey... The biggest play of the game in my view was when Bruce Smith had his hand on Hostetler's wrist in the end zone and the ball was in that hand. Sacked -7 yards for a safety. Somehow, he managed not to fumble it...the NY Giants backup QB.

This! Plus, how does anyone have a clue about the upcoming season while not looking at free agent, draft, walk on acquisitions? Waaaaaay early for any predictions for this years outcomes.

I don't know if that's a ringing endorsement to have McD on the Browns radar...

My take on the Ralph Wilson era from Wade Phillips onward is that Wilson was a very shrew business man and his team needed to make a profit, period! He was the team president for a reason. The man had expensive hobbies like collecting fine art and owing race horses. He did not want to end up like Art Modell who was forced to move, sell his team or like his good friend Al Davis who needed to sell part ownership. As it was he wanted to keep his name on the stadium too. The thing is, winning can get very expensive in so many ways as he found out during the SB years. Players becoming stars and needing to be compensated, coaches too. When a team wins all of a sudden everyone becomes important in the FO, coaching staff become more valuable, more expensive. Wilson didn't mind paying 100 million to DE Mario Williams because as expensive as he was he was only the 6th highest paid player in 2012 and he fell behind fast as salaries went up and up. Drew Brees made around 50 mill in 2013. I think there was a real reason as to why the team kept drafting DBs & RBs over the years and never drafted a QB in the top 10 before Josh Allen. Don't get this wrong as Ralph Wilson loved his fans and wanted to win games. He also wanted to keep ticket prices reasonable to allow all Bills fans to afford a season ticket. I also think that there was a real reason he kept hiring scrubs as coaches, GMs and promoted a marketing guy to team president at the end. Like JohnC noted, thankfully that era is behind us.

Thanks. It's honestly great to read that another poster that shares the same outlook on the offensive line. I've always found it to be perplexing to me that the majority of this board and most of the actual NFL world would rather see a top ten pick at defensive tackle, defensive end. But would abhor and even be repulsed by the idea of spending that high a pick on an interior offensive linemen. This really makes very little sense to me because as important as it is to stop the run or get to the QB. The absolute highest priority for the front office should be in protecting the most valuable position on the team, the quarterback. And another priority is being able to move the ball in the run game as teams need to be more then one dimensional. Ex-Bills GM Buddy Nix had a different outlook and had no problem in expending a #3 overall on a DT in the 2011 NFL draft. Later stated that any OT can play OG. In his view all O linemen needed to be a viable resource was be over 6ft tall, 300+ LBs. This mental error showed itself in 2010 when he stated that "you're going to think I'm crazy but we're not that far away". Meaning he though the 2010 Buffalo Bills were a serious contender for the division. Then the 2010 season started with Bills QB hurried, harried and running for their proverbial lives for the first eight games. Trent Edwards lasted two games before being outright cut and Fitz stepped in and ended up with a 6.7 YPC average in running for his life. Things started to settle down on the line after Nix picked Erik Pears, Kraig Urbik off the waiver wire to replace Mansfield Wrotto at RT, Wood at RG. Ex Raider Cornell Green 6'6'' 315lb OT started the season at RT on a 3 year 9 mill contract and he lasted a whole five games before quietly benched and cut. Needless to say the 2010 Buffalo Bills finished the season 4-12 and Buddy Nix in all his brilliance didn't draft an offensive linemen the next year until round four in OT Chris Hairston. The first pick was that #3 overall DT, then a DB, then a LBer, then another DB. Hairston was the second fourth round pick that year. It was more then clear that the mentality of any warm body filling a spot on the offensive line was good enough to get by with. What gets me is that the #3 overall in 2011 on a DT and the team was still very desperate for a pass rusher and didn't mind paying Mario Williams 100 million in 2012. The 2014 Buffalo Bills had the #4 overall defense and led the league in sacks with 54, the best pass rush in the league...that still wasn't good enough to shut down Tom Brady or beat the Patriots. You need an offense that can, run, pass and score too. Nix would later on spend a #2 draft pick on an OG in Cordy Glenn to play LT and Glenn managed to do a really good job at that position. Alas, although the Bills had Glenn, Incognito, Woods, a team needs five decent players as a line is only as good as it's weakest link. An example is the 2017 Chargers game as SD DE Joey Bosa stated that the Bills RT never touched him as he constantly harassed Bills QBs all game. Marv Levy is a great HC and in the HoF...a not so good GM. Tom Donahoe stuck as a Bills GM. Buddy Nix stunk as a Bills GM. Doug Whaley stunk as a Bills GM. The question now is how will Brandon Beane do going forward now that he has his franchise QB?

For me, it usually never went as far as an actual game. I could see the stupidity in offseason moves and preseason play to realize that this was a bad hire to begin with. The QB situations, the offensive lines it showed season after season. Gregg Williams in his second year had acquired QB Drew Bledsoe from a trade with the Patriots... who everyone in the world knew by this time that Drew needed supreme protection to win games. After a sack or two and Bledsoe was seeing/hearing phantom rushers and he could never get into a rhythm after that. New GM/team Tom Donahoe president screwed the pooch in the 2012 draft and drafted the wrong LT in Mike Williams at the #4 spot as he didn't even make a decent RT. Two spots later the Vikes draft McKinnie who is an all pro at LT. The Bills even had Kevin Gilbride as OC at that time. A man who would later go on to be the OC for the SB winning NY Giants. The thing is Donahoe must have known he needed a better line and attempted to up grade it with a new LT. When that failed he gave up on building a better line. Instead Bledsoe was instructed to get the ball out quicker. Sure, ask the QB who has been in the league 10 years, and had taken a team to the SB to change his play style. These defensive minded head coaches wanting to draft and build a defense first... somehow they forget to fully build the offense. Gregg Williams, Dick Jauron, Rex Ryan. Then the offensive minded head coaches in Mike Mularkey, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone and even those guys didn't think to build better offensive lines to protect the QBs they had. Now this past year the franchise finally drafts a QB in the top 10 for the first time in their storied 50+ year history and put that rookie behind one of the very worst offensive lines in the history of the Buffalo Bills. If this regime fails to build a top quality offensive line to protect that young QB and build a better ground game, then this regime will also fail just like all the rest of them. Most Bills fans saw the writing on the wall before the 2018 season started and knew it would be a down year when the FO didn't properly replace Woods, Incognito. The 64-65 AFL Championship years this franchise had one of the best offensive lines in the league. Same with those late 80s, early 90's Jim Kelly years as they had one of the best O lines year after year. All pro, pro bowl players at C, OG, LT. Those years the Bills defense was very good and the offense was even better.

There was a real reason why Castillo was fired and it should have happened after the 2017 season! I don't know how McD put up with such a bad outcome for so long as he did. 2016 saw the Bills run game #2 in rush attempts, #1 in rush yards, #1 in rush TDs, #1 in yards per carry average. To 2017 #4 in rush attempts, #6 in rush yards, #15 in rush TDs, #14 in yards per carry average. The Bills did lose Cordy Glenn for most of the season and yet Dion Dawkins filled in very well. How well you ask? PFF graded Dawkins as one of the top five best LTs over the second half of the season. It was at RG that Miller fell into a hole and was replaced by Vlad Ducasse. LG Richie Incognito was the lines best player as he only allowed 3 pressures and no sacks or hits. RBs averaged 1.92 yards before contact. Without Incognito, Woods it was glaring how bad the line was in 2018 they went from the top ten to #26 with Wyatt Teller only allowed 8 pressures in 8 games. The problem is that while not bad at pass blocking... he stunk at run blocking. Even Dawkins play fell off without the lines best player in Incognito no longer next to him. The entire line could be revamped with Dawkins moving to OG or RT. Although, when you look at the stats week by week the 2018 Buffalo Bills only seemed determined to run the ball when they had the lead and McCoy was hardly being utilized in the run game or pass game for a lot of the season.