[Rule Questions (Tuck/Intentional Grounding)]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

There's at least two reasons. One is because they rule book clearly says it's legal to spike the ball in order to stop the clock.

 

Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.

 

Two is because spiking the ball in order to stop the clock doesn't fit the criteria for an intentional grounding foul.

 

ARTICLE 1. DEFINITION. It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.

 

And yes, as pointed out in the post above, there was a time when the rule book did not allow for a spike to stop the clock. You had to snap the ball and then throw it over a receiver's head and out of bounds or at his feet. Everybody realized they were just unnecessarily chasing footballs around so they implemented the spike rule.

There’s no dispute that it’s within the rules. My stance is that it’s contrary to:

 

1. The number of allotted timeouts, allowing a ‘work-around’ to stop the clock. 

2. Being penalized for deliberately throwing the ball to nobody to avoid a sack (and loss of yards). 

 

I understand we’ve all become accustomed to the act, but It just strikes me as a strange that it’s a legal part of the game. 

 

[Rule Questions (Tuck/Intentional Grounding)]

I’ve never understood how ‘clocking’ the ball is not intentional grounding, or at the very least, delay of game or unsportsmanlike conduct. 
It’s obviously a desperation action to save seconds from ticking off the clock. The team spiking the ball is trading a down for an unofficial time out.
How is that within the spirit of the game? 
 

[Which OL doesn’t make the final cut?]

6 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I remember when we used to look at teams like the Bills current roster and pray for good starters from their scrap heap. It’s nice to be on this side of the equation. 

I had a similar thought after looking at the current roster’s D-linemen. How many will they keep and who gets cut? There are as many as 10 that have a legitimate chance to make the 53 without even factoring in the future personnel challenge of having two more serving six week suspensions. Does a veteran get traded or just cut outright? Do the Bills try to sneak one of their draft picks onto the PS and hope that no other team ‘steals’ them? Do they play the PUP IR game to protect valuable future assets?
Stay tuned for answers within a couple of weeks. 
But, to your point, it is a luxury to be in the driver’s seat with an abundance of talent.  Now, they just need to turn this ‘problem’ into wins and championships. 

[2nd Window for Superbowl Taking Shape]

On 8/13/2025 at 10:45 PM, PoundingDog said:

When Josh broke out 2020 season, the 1st window for superbowl opened. OBD went ahead added Von to their core players of Allen, Diggs, Knox, Dawkins, Morse, Oliver, Milano, White, Hyde, and Poyer. 3 seasons, 21-23, some bad luck like injuries, inexperience, and aging of a lot of the core guy proved to be not quite good enough. 
 

2024 was supposed to be a reset and reloading year. Almost all of the aging core guys were let go. But Allen took a step ahead into an MVP. As such OBD is setting up the 2nd window for superbowl, identifying and signing up the new core guys. Allen, Oliver, Dawkins, Knox remained; Bernard, Brown, Shakir, Rousseau, Benford and now Cook are given extension to be the new core guys. They really need a few more to step up like Kincaid and Coleman, plus a few defensive side rookies to pan out in the next 3 years, starting from the 2025 campaign. NFL windows are short. 3 years from now, if they don’t get it, a number of these core guys will be out of the door and a new reset is in the order to clear the book.

 

Let’s hope from the coaching stuff to the core guys left from the first window got hardened enough to gives us better results in January.

Maybe, but bear in mind that they’ll continue drafting and developing more players every year. Attrition is a fact of life for NFL teams. 
Even with constant turnover of players, the Patriots remained the team to beat for nearly 20 years because of their star QB. Fortunately, the Bills have a similar advantage to keep that window from slamming shut. 

[1980 Bills season highlights. Our 1st ever AFC Eastern Division title]

3 hours ago, PonyBoy said:

 

I was at that Bills v Rams game with my dad as a kid. One of the few times I ever stayed after the game was over. Watching Smerlas dancing like a Rockette was awesome!

 

@I'm Spartacus

The Whammy Weenie is probably the low point of lame in Buffalo history.

Who knew the Whammy would make a comeback during the Patriots run 😀 & WNBA games...

 

P.S. look at the Erie County tax charge on that ticket stub..😳

 

I was at that game as well as the season opener when they beat the Dolphins for the first time since the 60s. 
The excitement of the Bills victory over the Rams and playoff hopes was dampened the next night. Watching MNF, Cosell gave us the shocking news about John Lennon.

$12.00 for a ticket. Wow!
For perspective, the average teen or early 20s working for minimum wage at an entry-level job could enjoy a Bills game for four hours at work. Very affordable for families and young people to attend several games. 
   It was surprising to see the empty seats in the upper deck in some of the 1980 footage.  Of course, Buffalo was in terrible economic shape at that time (largely why I moved to Atlanta).

The 1980 team holds special memories for me, partially as the guys being drafted that year were about the same age as me.  The Chuck Knox era marked a resurgence and renewed hope for the elusive Super Bowl appearance. 
But, the pattern of Ralph Wilson ownership that always seemed to sabotage every ascending team reared its ugly head once more.
A similar scenario witnessed in the 70s with the exodus of Saban, Ahmad Rashad, et al. 
Ralph and his bean counters tried to save a few dollars at the expense of a competing team. 
By 1982, Chuck Knox was fed up with Wilson and moved on to Seattle. 
We had a couple of good years and high hopes with the Knox teams, then it was back to the cellar. 
1980 was a lot of fun.
For all you McDermott haters who think he needs to be fired if the Bills don’t reach the Super Bowl- be careful what you wish for. You could end up with another Hank Bullough, Harvey Johnson, or Jim Ringo.

These are the days in Bills history you'll have the fondest memories of, even if they don't make it to the dance/ 

[Statue]

22 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Each? 🤨

*
GMs and HCs are hard to come by.  Practice squad guys are a dime a dozen.  One goes down, it's just "next man up!"  Your idea is better.  Ralph might have been cheap, but he was no dummy when it came to shekels.

Yeah, two minutes after posting I thought it through. The conversation probably would've gone something like this:

Ralph: Here you go fellas - 20 big ones.

Player 1: Wait. I thought it was $20 each. 

Ralph: Sorry if you misunderstood. I said $20. That's pretty good for manual labor. You 3 guys can split it however you like. Enjoy. Take your wives out on the town.

Player 2: WTF are we supposed to do with $20? We can't even buy a decent lunch.

Ralph: I supposed you can use coupons to get 1/2 off a meal if you buy drinks.  Oh, by the way, you guys owe me $40 for parking.

[Statue]

34 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I can picture the conversation regarding statue relocation if Ralph was still alive.

 

>>> "We've contacted Higgins Erectors and Haulers to move your statue, Mr. Wilson.  They were the low bid."

<<< "Nonsense.  Tell Brandon and Sean not to make any plans for Sundays in March.  They can rent a pickup truck and appliance dolly from Home Depot."

Brilliant. 

Maybe he'd even suggest loading it in the trunk of his Taurus for the drive over to new Highmark and offering some practice squad guys $20 each to move it.

[Statue]

Speaking of statues, has there been any official word about the Ralph statue that currently stands outside Highmark?

I assume it will be retained and moved closer proximity to the new stadium. 

In my perfect world, the troughs from the existing men's facilities are salvaged, bronzed, and mounted strategically in front of the Ralph statue.

He already looks like he's got a two-handed grasp on his 'MVP'.  

[WGR Discussing McD's job security]

Again?  

My reply is redundant, but so is the topic.

 

For perspective:

Super Bowl winning NFL coaches still active:

McVay (8 seasons),

Tomlin (18 seasons),

Harbaugh (17 seasons),

Carroll(18 seasons),

Sirianni (4 seasons),

Sean Payton (17 seasons)

Andy Reid was a head coach for around 20 seasons before finally winning it. Now has 3 of past 5 Super Bowl wins. 

Previously Mike McCarthy had 18 seasons as head coach with a single Super Bowl win.

 

Total seasons by these respected head coaches  : (+/-)125,  Total Superbowl wins: 11

 

It's not easy to make it to the Super Bowl, and even harder to win it.  

Why would anyone with a lick of sense entertain the idea of dismissing the most successful coach (winning percentage) in team history?  What guarantee is there that his replacement would get there?  

 

I suspect some of the comments are from the spoiled instant gratification generation who feel entitled for their dreams and desires always being realized. 

Tough world. 
p.s. - McDermott ain't going anywhere until he decides to move on.

 

 

[Best & worst officiating calls]

5 hours ago, nuklz2594 said:

Giving him the business call

The was one of the all-time great calls. 

[Camp question: Who is this year’s Buffalo Joe?]

C Jacob Bayer (61) and OT Chase Lundt (77) are two candidates for that designation. Will be watching them tomorrow.

Kristian Wilkerson (82), possible practice squad/developmental player addition

[The last sjf training camp of 2025 8/7]

24 minutes ago, Logic said:

Honestly, at this point, I'd rather roster Shavers than Samuel. Samuel just cannot seem to stay healthy.

That said, I haven't heard a peep about Elijah Moore since his injury, and I can't help but wonder if he's not the roster lock people seem to think he is.

Coleman
Palmer
Shakir
Shavers

Samuel
Moore

 

Would seem to be the six, if they keep six. 

In any case, McDermott's comment about Shavers sure doesn't make it seem like he's a player they're about to cut. You can only sneak a guy like him onto the practice squad so many times before he gets scooped off waivers.

Could special-teamed/WR Shenault be on the WR list, making it 7, or replacing one of the 6? 

[NFTA shuttle bus ???]

55 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was at that game. Wore my raincoat in my Dads car 

Why the raincoat? 

I've got a friend who claims to have been there and swears it was raining.

It was not. It was a beautiful late October night, 45 degrees, a bit windy. 

O.J. ran for a then-record, 47 carries on his way to breaking the 1,000 mark in game 7.  

BTW - I went to the Bills' first Monday Night game in Rich with my late older brother,  and hoping to go their first Monday night game in the new stadium with my other brother. It would be fitting if it were against the Chiefs.

[NFTA shuttle bus ???]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks..that website is how I know about it. I’m wondering if anyone on here has ever used the shuttle. 

1973, Bills-Chiefs, Monday night, from the corner of Main & Transit. I wasn't old enough to drive legally.  Don't if that service is still available. 🤪

[The Hard Knocks Thread]

I thought it was interesting where Bobby Babich, addressing the D, was telling them to "stay away from 17,  JOEY" - making a point to let Bosa know we don't touch Allen, as if he doesn't have sense enough to put on the brakes. He may not. He doesn't give the impression that he could've been a Rhode's Scholar candidate.

[The Hard Knocks Thread]

23 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I’m now confused.  Are you saying you want a windy stadium?

 

No

[The Hard Knocks Thread]

40 minutes ago, eball said:

 

In general you are correct, but wind is the condition that I think does make a difference because windy conditions add too much variability to passes and kicks.  Remove the wind, you remove that variability, which means the better team (QB) should prevail.  That benefits Buffalo as long as Allen is at the helm.

 

And if the opposing team has a superior kicker, they'd have the advantage. In both cases I believe any advantage is minimal. For me, not enough to prefer a windy stadium when it's cold if I'm sitting in the stands.

[The Hard Knocks Thread]

9 hours ago, thronethinker said:

So will no wind in the new stadium take away a key advantage in the playoffs?

 

I don't get why so many are fixated on weather-related advantages. It's a myth.

Other than the sunny/shady side of the field differences for outdoor arenas, both teams have to play in the same conditions. 

When the Bills played the indoor-stadium Colts in 3 feet of snow a few years ago, they barely won, saved only by a spectacular Shady McCoy run. 

In the playoffs at home against the Bengals,  a snow covered field didn't help the Bills to a win. 

I don't doubt severe cold can be a bit of a shock to a Miami team in late December, but I don't see wind, or lack of, being an advantage to either team. 

[Were Dawson and Baker separated at Birth LOL]

27 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

He really got railroaded in Cleveland.  I'm glad he's making the most of his second chance in Tampa.

I believe it's only 4 years, and they're averaging about 9 wins/season over the past 3 years in the lowly NFC South. Kudos.

[***Multiple reports that Hairston's knee injury is just an LCL sprain and he's week to week***]

5 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Not to be a Negative Nancy, but what if Tre doesn't stay healthy and/or doesn't return to pro-bowl Tre again?

 

In that scenario, an injured or unready Max is a problem - and that's what some of us are worried about.

As always...next man up. 

My hope is that our offense is explosive and forces opposition to be more one-dimensional, having to play catch-up.

The Bills have in recent history managed to be effective, even when missing most of their secondary.  Hoping greater pressure from a re-vamped D-line will make it easier for our DBs, regardless if they're first team or reserves.

[Training Camp 8/3]

I doubt Beane feels any need to hurry this up. Why?

He doesn't really need Cook doing much before the season starts as long as he's in-house and in the classroom to absorb any new wrinkles. Once the cutdowns are done and the roster is established in a few weeks, Beane will have a clearer idea of exactly how much cap room he has and what maneuvers he can execute to make it happen for Cook - if they can come to terms. 

 

The Bills are in the driver's seat. If there's not a new agreement, Cook is still under contract for 2025. He can play out this year and after that test his worth in the market. The Bills may be in a better situation cap-wise by that time. I believe they could make him a restricted free agent (correct me if I'm wrong) at which time they can retain him by matching any offers.

If I'm the Bills, I wait. 

What if he blows out his knee in week 12, and is basically no good to the team leading into the playoffs and in for the first half of 2026? By the time he's 100% rehabbed in 2027 and going on 28 years old, he's on the back side of his career and probably not worth top RB money. What if there's no agreement, free agency looms, and he's incentivized to play his ass off this year? I like that scenario.

A supercharged Cook. Great!

 

By not rushing into a new contract, the Bills are in better negotiating position.

Cook is a valuable piece of this offense, but not at the expense of not being able sign WRs or O-linemen. Fortunately, the Bills are now a desirable destination. If Cook is willing to take a few million more so he can play for some POS cellar-dweller team, power to him. Good riddance.

 

 

[Alec Anderson knee surgery; out 1-2 weeks]

On 7/30/2025 at 6:11 PM, Captain_Quint said:

Might be a circumcision and they disguise it as a knee for privacy. Personally, I wouldn't want the headline 'Anderson out for two weeks due to circumcision' floating around. 

 

 

 

I guess that’s one way to get a head. 

[Keon keeps trying to beat Allen to Highmark lol]

16 minutes ago, eball said:

I don’t believe him. I’ve heard several on this forum claim Josh doesn’t put the work in and only cares about golf and doing commercials. 
 

 

And he absolutely hates kids.

[***Multiple reports that Hairston's knee injury is just an LCL sprain and he's week to week***]

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

My WAG is he’s out until week 1, amd then practices while Tre takes the reins for the first four weeks.  By that time, he’ll be completely healthy and can start being woven into the starting line up.

If Tre stays healthy and is close to being pro-bowl Tre again, I don't expect Max will be starting this season. Even pre-injury, I saw him only in a reserve role until well into the regular season if not the entire season. He's still a rookie. The Bills are facing experienced QBs Jackson, Mahomes, Burrows, Rogers, et al. They could eat Hairston for lunch if he's still making typical rookie mental mistakes as he's learning. 

[Training Camp 7/29 — practice at 9:45 am]

15 hours ago, Dillenger4 said:

Yep - the CB's were huddled around Max, some tears and clear frustration from max himself. You know when you know. Towel over his face for a bit then they helped him up. I'm betting that this is either season ending or long-term Either way, this sucks!

ACL? Season ending if it is. 

Hopefully, nothing more serious than a sprain. But, when a teammate says "prayers", it's either overly-dramatic, or a real concern based on the seeing it first-hand.