Chuck Wagon

Darnold is the highest rated QB on NFL.com's prospect list since Luck. This class has been talked about for years. The notion this is a deeply flawed overrated pool of QBs is utter nonsense.

Do you really believe we didn't try to move up? Every single report mentioning the Bills has said they've been trying to move up, this is going back to before the combine there were reports about the Bills trying to move up. We clearly moved up to 12. Do you honestly believe the team wasn't talking to Indy about #3 and otherwise hasn't been trying to move up?

Browns - Darnold Giants - Rosen Jets - Allen Broncos - Mayfield Then the draft starts at 5 Wouldn't be shocked to see Jackson go before 12 The good news is we'll be in a position to add a lot of talent to the roster. The bad news is unless McCarron or a later pick become a gem, welcome to QB purgatory, never bad enough to draft an elite prospect, never good enough to win.

Reality and historical precedence. To get to #2, that's very likely the price. MAYBE take out #65 or #56 or the 2019 pick, but the Jets just gave 3 2nd round picks to move up 3 spots, if you don't think the price for #2 would be something along those lines, i don't know what to tell you.

Even the Jets have to be smart enough to realize letting Baker loose in NYC is asking for trouble.

Again, there were several reports that said the Bills have been the most aggressive team in targeting a trade up. If you need someone to say "The Bills were also talking to Indy, they offered x,y,z" to believe we were talking about a pick that was clearly in play, then yes, that's not reality, that reporting doesn't happen.

It was widely reported the Bills were the most aggressive team in working for a trade up. That's not "Rudolph or Jackson is their guy". Furthermore, if Rudolph or Jackson were their guy, isn't it a red flag that "their guy" is widely viewed as the 5th or 6th best guy in the draft? There's no way Rudolph or Jackson is plan A. Either we are far in negotiations with the Giants, or we just lost, bottom line and the Jets offered something we couldn't, the ability to stay in the "blue chip" territory. You are living in lala land if you don't believe they've been working hard to make a move to get in position for a QB. Goff and Wentz were traded long before the draft. Same with RG3. If the Bills truly weren't talking to anyone yet, we should be very concerned about what's going on at OBD.

That's what I said.

Spot on. This is my take too. Either the Giants are taking Rosen or they are selling the pick for a return that'll make the Jets return look like child's play. I also wouldn't put it past Denver to give Cleveland a pick or two to flop 4 and 5. Browns walk out of the draft with the top QB and top position player. The gun is to Beane's head now. Are they willing to trade #12 / #22 / #53 / #56 / #65 / and probably a 1st or 2nd in 2019 for the #2 QB, or are they going to risk their jobs on McCarron / Peterman / a QB picked later?

KC & Houston were both playoff teams, Houston falling to the #4 pick can't really be predicted. I also believe there were stories the Texans didn't inquire about trading up with us, they were ok waiting to see if one of Watson or Mahomes fell further, but once Mahomes went they worked the phones hard. However, I do agree with your larger point. The trade down was done to gather ammo for this year, the Sammy / Tyrod / Cordy / Darby trades, all more ammo for this year. If Mahomes comes out firing the ball all over the field and makes Sammy look like a WR #1, Watson gets back to his pre-injury level and whatever rookie the Jets have at QB lights it up and we are left being sold McCarron / Mason Rudolph / Nathan Peterman, all the trust the process and drought breaking goodwill is going to dry up very very fast.

Clearly the Colts didn't want to move too far down the board. Glenn clearly wasn't in our long term plans. In moving from 21 to 12 we basically got 2nd round pick value of out him. Moving to 12 was a necessary move to continue discussions on a trade up. Even if we can't move up and 4 or 5 QBs are off the board. Moving up to 12 will net the ~7-8th best position player in the draft, a guy who was likely gone well before 21.

Barkley is a nice talent. It's one thing to debate if a RB is worth the #2 pick. But no running back is worth the haul of draft picks they could get for selling the pick for a QB. This isn't a "play it to the draft" move, either we are close enough with the Giants that the Colts were told to move on our of professional courtesy, or a move up isn't happening. I've said before, but Beane's press conference yesterday feels like a concession now, the Jets just had better cards, offering the Colts the same (or a similar) player they could get at 3 while getting 3 2nd round picks.

I would be perfectly fine taking Allen / Baker / Jackson at 12 and having 4 picks between #22 - #65. The boom / bust potential is pretty mitigated when you are looking at adding 4 other high level players.

I certainly enjoy entertaining a scenario where we've agreed to a deal with the Giants, so the Colts moved on and the Jets panicked, and we & the Giants are letting the Jets have their minute in the sun before dropping the hammer on them. I think it's much more realistic the Giants are taking QB and not trading the pick, QBs are locked to go 1-3 and the Browns can get Denver to give them something to go from 4 to 5 and get the exact same player.

I only really like Rosen and Darnold and let's be real here, if we move to 4 we are talking about Baker or maybe Allen. Do I think an undersized QB who'll require a gimmick offense, possesses character concerns and posted stats in the Big 12, or a small school QB with accuracy issues who struggled against better competition is worth selling the farm for? No. I'd rather just sit at 12, take Jackson if he's there, otherwise build the best team possible around McCarron.

This is such loser thinking.

No they aren't. No RB is worth the haul that can be had in draft picks. A QB is going #2.

They are likely to get the same player at #6 that they were going to take #3 and picked up 3 2nd round picks to do it. It's a huge win.

With this news yesterday's press conference really feels like a concession speech. We tried to aggressively move up and we lost. 4 QBs are almost for sure off the board when we pick, potentially 5. Getting the 7th best position player at #12 overall for a player who wasn't in your long term plans is not a bad move and you are getting a guy who would have been long gone by 21.

#2 is the only pick worth moving up to get. If it's not in play, just focus on putting the best team around McCarron possible and maybe taking a shot on a developmental guy in round 4. Trading up to 6 without a move to 2 in place is dumb.

I completely agree. I think there are two options: 1) We are deep in talks with the Giants, to the point both teams know it's happen, and the Colts and Jets know it's not an option for the Colts to trade with us or the Jets to trade with the Giants or 2) The Giants aren't moving, and they are set on QB.

Giants are taking a QB at number 2. I don't buy we have any sort of deal in place, it would have been announced. If the Giants were open to moving down, they would have taken the Jets picks and known they were getting blue chip talent along with 3 2nd round picks. We played poker, the Jets flipped a better hand, now all that's left is a potential move to #4 to take the 4th best QB prospect, or just taking a Mike White level talent in round 3-4 to wage a battle of mediocrity with McCarron and Peterman.

When I've watched him I saw a "Barry Sanders" type home run hitter. He's not going to grind out 3-4 yards and occasionally hit chunks, he gets stopped behind the line A LOT but hits a lot of home runs.

You can't wait. That gives a month for Denver to grow the stones to make a move up to #2 and the Giants to still get Nelson or Barkley. If #2 is in play at all, you get it done now.

No. And that's why a stepping stone deal up to ~7 without another deal up to 2 makes no sense. It's one thing if we could structure something like: Bucs get #12 / Lawson / #121 Giants get #7 / #22 / #53 / #97 / 2019 2nd Bills get #2 But a stepping stone deal with just the hope of something else at this point is foolish.