Chuck Wagon

Rams Eagles Chiefs Titans Jags Huh All of them made playoffs last year. All of them drafted QBs high or traded up for QBs within the last 4 drafts.

Bingo. Rosen's initial comments were regarding football along with a demanding academic major. The type of move a lot of "football factory" programs wouldn't even let players consider. Saban isn't turning out future doctors and lawyers.

I completely agree, but I'm not going to quibble if it gets the deal done. Either way the Giants are doing very well on the traditional value chart. Considering they are likely getting the same player at 4 as at 2, they are basically getting #12 + more picks for Beckham, which is a very strong return for a guy with his personality and contract demands.

I have him going to the Browns....

I think it's pretty clear Cleveland seems like an ideal landing spot for Odell, with his connections to the team (Landry & college coach Henry). #4 seems like a massive overpay for him. Enter the Bills. We get #2 Giants get #4 / #12 / 2019 Bills 1st / #53 Browns get Beckham / #22 Maybe some later picks get shuffled, but the premise is simple. The Giants only move back 2 spots, get pick #12 and a 2019 1st for Beckham (plus a 2nd). Browns move back 18 spots from 4 to 22 but add Beckham. We get pick #2, giving up 3 1sts and a 2nd, but still have picks 56 / 65, so basically still get a full draft and are only down 1 pick next year.

Watch. Gronk + #31 traded to the Raiders for #10, then #10 and a 2019 1st traded to move up to 4 or 5 and the Pats get their QB of the future right out from under us.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/04/03/report-gronk-trade-is-coming/

I'm not ruling anything out. I think the people who say the Browns would have too many picks if they traded with us are clueless. The stories have been out about how much draft capital the Giants "could" have, but it really holds true to the Browns. They easily could have 8-9 picks in the top 65, that's adding cheap depth all over. Ultimately I believe we'll move up to get a QB, either at 2 or 4, the amount of picks that can be offered is simply too enticing and our need at QB is simply too great. I think the Giants are going to smoke screen and play it out until draft night, they would likely love to do a deal similar to the Colts and take a handful of picks, but if something doesn't materialize them sitting on the clock will make us or someone else desperate enough to meet their likely sky high price. If they stay at take a QB, then Cleveland at 4 could really get the godfather offer.

Peter Kings column is much more of a free flowing thoughts piece than any sort of news reporting. And "a friend of Dorsey" is putting that out there so Browns fans are ready when they take Allen instead of Darnold. It's absolutely planted on purpose, Peter knows that, the Browns have no reason to smoke screen anything if they are leaking Allen it's so their fans know what to expect and don't riot over the choice. People need to accept Allen has the best physical tools in the QB class and comes from a system that's developed pro QBs. Oklahoma & USC have a reputation to turning out NFL busts at the QB position.

At 12 they could get one of Ward / Fitzpatrick / James and at 22 they could get McGlinchy. Just saying.

Sachi Brown was a genious when he was loading the Browns up with cap space and draft picks. After missing out on QB twice he’ll never be a GM again.

You scored a 37. You're as smart as Tony Romo, he scored a 37. Tony Romo is a American football quarterback. According to Wonderlic Test Scores, Tony Romo has a score of 37. Romo played college football at the University of Eastern Illinois. As a sophomore in 2000, Romo ranked second in Division 1-AA in passing efficiency, completing 164 passes of 278 for 2,583 yards and 27 touchdowns. He was a 3x All-Ohio Valley Conference player, 3x OVC Player of the Year, 3x All- American, and won the Walter Payton Award while in college. Romo entered the 2003 NFL draft and went undrafted.He would later sign as a undrafted rookie free agent.He would not start till four seasons later, and is still the current starting quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys. Looks like I'm in "Allen" company

We draft a whole bunch of talent and go back to being a talented team that's completely irrelevant because we don't have a QB and finishes somewhere between 6-10 & 9-7 every year.

I think I'm done playing, but I started with the Giants at #2. I traded down several times and picked Minkah Fitzpatrick at 26 (seemed like good value), then took 5 players in the 2nd round and am starting round 3 with 18 3rd round picks / 8 4th round picks / 4 5th round picks.

If we are shut out, why are we going to the trouble of getting to know all these prospects we are supposedly shut out of? "Hey Terry, want to go meet Baker? The Browns / Giants / Jets / Broncos are all taking QBs so there's no chance we get him, but he's still a pretty fun hang." Either we have a more real avenue to get one of the QBs then some here are willing to admit, or we are wasting A TON of time in draft prep meeting kids we have no prayer of drafting. Which do you think is true?

I think some people have convinced themselves Mason Rudolph is just as good as the other QBs but not getting the hype, because, reasons.

I think the Giants take Chubb. Could fit with the rumor of needing 5 to get to 2. Giants are going to take him at 2 unless they are pretty confident to get him at 5. If Denver knows they don’t want to take QB and know they are stymied on chubb that could be their motivation to take the package and move down.

Sure. And what if McCarron is great for the first ~10 games, gets hurt, the rookie comes in and he's great for the remaining 6 games, take us into the playoffs and wins a game. Next offseason teams are banging down our door for McCarron, easily recouping part of the package we give to trade up for QB this year and the drafted QB runs with the job for the next 15 years.

It all depends on the price to move to 7 currently. If it's strictly a straight up swap on the draft value chart it's one thing, but as I detailed above there's a real chance #7 is looking at the same tier as #12, ie not something that opens up a lot more options and not something worth paying for in premium. I'm guessing if Licht is selling the pick, it's more based on "what could be there" than what is likely there. It also jives with his comment about having 7 guys they would be happy to take at 7. Teams likely have a very strong idea the player value at 7 is pretty comparable to 12.

I do believe there's a wide swing of value currently on a few of these picks. #7 stands out for sure. There's certainly a good chance all 4 QBs and Chubb / Barkley go top 6, which leaves #7 looking at Nelson or one of the defensive players, not a great position. So I can see Licht wanting to sell the pick now, while there's still some of the uncertainty on who might be there, and I can also see Beane not wanting to do it because if you are looking at the "Nelson + defense" available on the board, the pick isn't worth all that much more than #12. But on the flip side, there's a chance someone slides into the top 6 and suddenly with 7 you are auctioning off the last best QB. For that reason, I think there's a huge value swing between pick 6 and 7. Basically at 6 Indy knows they are getting Chubb / Barkley or auctioning off the last QB. It's potentially why we need to get to 5 to trade to 2. But there's going to be a big premium on that pick at 5, which is why I tend to believe the Giants will see us as the only real bidder and just take all the premium, figuring things out later. It's going to end up as a "Do we want Saquon or do we want one of Ward-Fitzpatrick-Edmonds-James-Smith-Nelson and a ton of other picks"?

Frankly I just don't see Denver dealing down without paying a huge price, the type of price you aren't paying if you know there's a chance you are stuck. They know that if we go to 2, that pushes either Chubb or Barkley down to 5, as well as the last QB on the board. So in essence, us trading to 2 makes the #5 pick more valuable. I think that's what the Giants would like, to stay in that pick, but I expect reality to set in, for Gettleman to see the premium that's going to have to go to Denver and not to the Giants to have that #5 pick and decide to just take all the premium for himself. Pick 6 or 7 may still get the Giants the player they want (I still tend to believe Nelson) and be A LOT cheaper from #12 on draft night than right now once all the QBs have landed.

Right. People have to be real naive to believe teams wouldn't be working hard to jump 12. Just sitting at 12 isn't an option for QB.

If Denver doesn't want a QB (and doesn't want Barkley), I would think they should take our package and run. Assuming the 4 QBs are off the board by 12, you are still looking at picking between two of Ward / Fitzpatrick / Nelson / Smith / Edmonds / James / Vea. If they have 6 of those guys grouped together as a tier, it's way better to pick the last one out of the tier while picking up more draft picks, than to take the first one.

Gabbert, Ponder, Manuel. Sure, there are cases of QBs being overdrafted. I don't think anyone the last couple drafts was overdrafted. If what you are postulating is correct, Mahomes and Watson would have gone top ~5 last year. I just think you are way off base. You may have personally decided these QBs are overrated, but the reality is there's 4 guys this year who would have been the #1 or #2 QB picked in most every year out of the last 10+ drafts. As per your point on offenses, NFL offenses have begun a dramatic shift. RPOs are all over the league now. Offensive principles are flowing up from the college ranks because they work. The days of NFL teams needing a 6'5" guy who lines up under center, stands in the pocket and delivers a 12 yard out are gone. Teams are seeing the prospects that are being delivered and adjusting to put them in a best position to succeed. Bottom line, all analysis about caution on moving up is rendered completely null and void if they actually hit on a QB. Make no mistake, it's a boom or bust move though your point is applicable in that a bust doesn't hurt as bad anymore.

My inference is they are doing extra homework on Baker to be sure they are comfortable "getting stuck with him" but are pursing #2. I do have to wonder if Gettleman will decide we are the only realistic option for a trade out of #2 and instead of our picks getting devalued to an extent (paying a ~20% premium to get to ~5 then another ~20% premium from ~5 to 2) he just decides to take all the picks for himself. Personally I think that's the best route for the Giants to take, take all they can out of us and go from 2 to 12, then if a player you really want is in the 5-6-7-8 range and the price to move up is reasonable, move back up.