Chuck Wagon

Half of the opinions out there appear to be the same recycled "Bills, LOL", "There's 7 running backs pumping gas who can run for 1,300 yards" and "Chip is a genius" opinions. Also it seems there's a lot more people who view Kiko as a "great linebacker" than there were 24 hours ago.

And people think we could sign DeMarco Murray or Adrian Peterson when 31 other teams can as well....

I don't think this deal has any impact on the QB situation. It doesn't change the QBs who are available as FAs. The only QBs who might be available for trade are guys like Bradford or Cutler and we'd really flip out had the team traded Kiko for one of those. It's not like Kiko would have netted us Cam Newton or Russell Wilson. Simply put, elite QBs are not available for trade, regardless of who is offered. The only way we are getting one is through the draft or finding a gem on the FA scrap heap. This deal doesn't impact our ability to do either of those things.

I wasn't aware trading for LeSean McCoy was preventing us from signing Aaron Rodgers. I'm well aware of the QB situation. Because we don't have a top QB, should we just trade Mario, Dareaus, Kyle, Watkins and Cordy Glenn and pout? Or should we try to build a team that can win given our limitations?

DeMarco said the other day that if the money was anywhere close he'll be back in Dallas. We are fighting an uphill battle to bring FAs here, except for the guys who know and love Rex. But let's not allow facts to get in the way of the hyperbole.

So you'd rather have Jay Cutler than LeSean McCoy? Maybe it's time to sit a couple of plays out there Champ.

I'd say it would be pretty hard to bring back anywhere near the value of Shady by trading Kiko somewhere else. I know we love the Bills and Rex is great and all, but Mario is the only significant FA we've signed in a long time. Can we stop playing the Browns fans game of thinking we'd be players for every marquee FA? Ingram is bad and Murray is going elsewhere if the money is close.

"Hey Titans, we'll give you Shady and some other stuff for the #2 pick, what do you say?"

I see a lot more busts on that list than guys who can plug in and rush for 1,000 yards. "Dime a Dozen" crowd, if it's soo easy to find backs, are teams actively taking busts?

2009 RBs Knowshon Moreno 1 Donald Brown 1 Chris Wells 1 LeSean McCoy 2 Shonn Greene 3 Glen Coffee 3 Mike Goodson 4 Tony Fiammetta 4 Andre Brown 4 Gartrell Johnson 4 Quinn Johnson 5 Frank Summers 5 Javon Ringer 5 Cedric Peerman 6 Aaron Brown 6 James Davis 6 Bernard Scott 6 Chris Ogbonnaya 7 Javarris Williams 7 Fui Vakapuna 7 Eddie Williams 7 Larod Stephens-Howling 7 Rashad Jennings 7 2010 RBs C.J. Spiller 1 Ryan Mathews 1 Jahvid Best 1 Dexter McCluster 2 Toby Gerhart 2 Ben Tate 2 Montario Hardesty 2 Joe McKnight 4 John Conner 5 Anthony Dixon 6 Deji Karim 6 Jonathan Dwyer 6 James Starks 6 Charles Scott 6 Jameson Konz 7 2011 RBs Mark Ingram 1 Ryan Williams 2 Shane Vereen 2 Mikel Leshoure 2 Daniel Thomas 2 Demarco Murray 3 Stevan Ridley 3 Alexander Green 3 Roy Helu 4 Kendall Hunter 4 Delone Carter 4 Owen Marecic 4 Taiwan Jones 4 Bilal Powell 4 Jamie Harper 4 Johnny White 5 Anthony Sherman 5 Jacquizz Rodgers 5 Dion Lewis 5 Charles Clay 6 Evan Royster 6 Jordan Todman 6 Allen Bradford 6 Shaun Chapas 7 Da'Rel Scott 7 Shane Bannon 7 Anthony Allen 7 Baron Batch 7 Stanley Havili 7 Jay Finley 7 2012 RBs Trent Richardson 1 Doug Martin 1 David Wilson 1 Isaiah Pead 2 LaMichael James 2 Ronnie Hillman 3 Bernard Pierce 3 Lamar Miller 4 Robert Turbin 4 Rhett Ellison 4 Bradie Ewing 5 Chris Rainey 5 Vick Ballard 5 Alfred Morris 6 Cyrus Gray 6 Dan Herron 6 Terrance Ganaway 6 Michael Smith 7 Bryce Brown 7 Drake Dunsmore 7 Edwin Baker 7 Daryl Richardson 7 2013 RBs Giovani Bernard 2 Le'veon Bell 2 Montee Ball 2 Eddie Lacy 2 Christine Michael 2 Knile Davis 3 Johnathan Franklin 4 Kyle Juszczyk 4 Marcus Lattimore 4 Stepfan Taylor 5 Joseph Randle 5 Chris Thompson 5 Zachary Stacy 5 Mike Gillislee 5 Latavius Murray 6 Kenjon Barner 6 Andre Ellington 6 Mike James 6 Rex Burkhead 6 Spencer Ware 6 Braden Wilson 6 Tommy Bohanon 7 Jawan Jamison 7 Kerwynn Williams 7 Michael Cox 7

Even teams with a great QB can really struggle to find plug and play backs. Ridley had one good year, other than that he has been bad in NE and Mauroney was garbage before him. The Steelers struggled to run the ball for a couple of years before taking Le'Veon Bell high. The Colts couldn't make Trent Richardson work and their rushing game fell apart when Bradshaw went down. Montee Ball struggled mightly in Denver, who had problems running until CJ Anderson emerged. Those are teams with great offenses who invested high picks in running backs, almost all of them were busts. People like to point to the one in a million examples like Foster, but ignore that every year 20+ backs get drafted and only a couple of them per draft class make a pro bowl once.

Exactly my point. I'm a CPA, I run numbers all day every day. Even I struggle to grasp the full maneuverability of the cap. All I really know is the only time a team really runs into trouble is when you've got a Lions esque situation, where they drafted 3 very good players at the top of the wrong drafts and put themselves into trouble because they kept pushing back bonuses. We're nowhere near that type of situation.

No, they aren't. It's not proven year after year. The same backs (Peterson, McCoy, Lynch, Forte, Murray, Charles, Foster) are at the top of the rushing lists every single year. Sure, there's a back or two every year that comes out of nowhere (Forsett last year) to post a great season, but usually those guys runs are shortlived. A guy like Foster or flash in the pans like Forsett don't prove there's franchise RBs available late in every draft any more than a once in a lifetime player like Brady proves theres franchise QBs available late in every draft. The simple truth is almost all of the great running backs currently playing went no later than the 3rd round.

I'll be very surprised if Shady doesn't sign a new deal that lowers his cap number. The simple truth is we still have more than enough cap room to resign Hughes or a replacement for him, bring in a QB like Hoyer to compete with EJ and sign one of the top guards with money left over. I wonder how many of the people complaining about the money really have any understanding of all you can do with the NFL cap. The Saints and Seahawks are supposedly capped out yet somehow are able to sign players like Byrd, Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett ever year. We have nearly 30 mil of cap room after cleaning up some deadweight like Rivers, we have plenty of flexibility.

People who don't get it don't understand that they don't get it.

I'll say this very clearly one time in hopes some of the slower people can understand: Adrian Peterson does not want to play for the Buffalo Bills. He wants to play for the Dallas Cowboys. Yes, Murray is a guy we could have signed, but before last year everyone thought Shady was a better player than him, had we signed DeMarco the same people ripping this deal would say he's only good because of the Cowboys oline and we would be competing with 31 other teams to sign him. If the money is even relatively close for a team like Indy or for us, where is he going? Mark Ingram is another name brought up, he's hot garbage and was on his way out the league before he went all out during a contract year last year. Kiko doesn't fit a true 3-4 defense. He's a classic 4-3 WLB. Keep in mind we brought in Spikes and Brown to move him out of the middle before he got hurt. He might play great for Philly as he fits their style much better than ours, or because of the knee he might never be the player he flashed as in his rookie year. We added LeSean McCoy without losing anyone who played a snap on last years team. We still have plenty of cap space, so while I hear the salary concern it's a bit irrelevant at this moment. We need a top back if we are going to try to win without a real franchise QB, while we might have found someone good in the draft, we might also have ended up with a bust. It seems some people are struggling to separate their personal feelings for Kiko and not willing to objectively understand he's not the type of player that fits the defense Rex wants to run. I get it, Kiko was my favorite Bill from 2013, but then he tore his ACL. We traded him for one of the top backs in the NFL without seeing what level he can play at after tearing his ACL. Given our team needs, it's a win for us.

Reading the national responses makes me feel even better. A lot of people viewing it as Chip not getting along with Shady, dumping one of Roseman's picks, believing he can plug any RB and just getting another Oregon player. We all love Kiko. Dude plays like his hair is lit on fire all the time. But I don't know how people can't have concerns about his knees and he's not big enough to play outside or inside in a true 3-4 like Rex wants to run. It's shocking to see him gone, but we just added LeSean McCoy without losing anyone off last year's team. That's a win.

The thread is full of hyperbole, people claiming Kiko is the best young linebacker in football and saying RBs grow on trees. Those are both actual quotes. I get the concerns about what's left in Shady's tank, his mental approach on the deal and the cap hit. But it's a pretty objective POV to say there's no offensive FA (outside of maybe Demarco) who can match the upside he could deliver or that linebacker is our deepest position.

He's coming off a 2nd ACL, have you seen him run a back down at full speed post injury? Kuechley was the DPOTY 2 years ago. He's the best linebacker in football. Kiko is a nice player, but it's our deepest position and he's coming off a 2nd major injury. I like the guy too but his name doesn't belong in the same sentence as Kuechley.

So basically two camps on this: Camp A- Kiko is the greatest thing since sliced bread, McCoy is washed up, you can find HOF RBs in the 7th round Camp B- We are deep at linebacker, will likely sign David Harris and McCoy should still be a top 5 back.

Kuechley is worlds better than Kiko. Coming off the injury I'm not prepared to say Kiko is even better than Brown or Bradham.

If RBs "grow on trees" then why doesn't every team have a guy capable of the numbers Shady posts? I've been saying we need to add an elite back (I wanted Demarco) and this accomplishes that. Kiko wanted out and we are set up with Brown and Bradham, plus Rex should be able to recruit David Harris much easier than an offensive player of McCoy's caliber. My head is spinning. If you don't have a QB you need a top RB. If he's healthy and his head is right, we'll be a better team than with Kiko. Shady doesn't seem pleased though.

Brees was pretty solid in his first year starting- 60% / 3,284 / 17 tds / 16 picks. He got hurt in 2003 and the Chargers had little around him (especially defensively) and they ended up in a position to take a QB during a rich QB draft. There were long term concerns about Brees health so they took Rivers.

We'll sign Revis and bring Stevie back. They'll get in a fight the first day of practice breaking Stevie's hand and Revis's orbital bone.

I think Yeldon is hot garbage, Walford is dropping to 3rd round territory after a poor showing at the combine and you did nothing to address the loss of Hughes. You'd still have a bunch of cap space left over for no apparent reason.