Chuck Wagon

I can't believe people watch First Take. I'm shocked anyone watches that garbage every time I see "Stephen A. said".

I think Tyrod would be the hottest QB on the market if we cut him loose. Who else would be: Glennon, Cutler? Tyrod has shown more than both of them recently. Tyrod's deal is awful, but Cleveland has gobs of cap space and has to know they wouldn't be able to sign him to anything better (if they can at all) if it gets into a multiple team bidding war with him as a UFA.

The Browns have to know if they want TT their best bet is trading for him. They've accumulated enough draft capital they could make a relatively painless trade for him. Romo to the Bills / TT to the Browns and a couple of picks to Dallas, everyone is happy.

Sadly this is right on. ESPN especially and especially First Take loves to antagonize passionate fan bases. Why do you think the Bills ESPN beat reporter is a known Patriots fan?

I heard a great take from a NFLN guy (I want to say Bucky Brooks) in relation to weather when it came out that Lynn preferred us over San Diego. The guy he was talking to was incredulous that would be a choice, but Bucky shot him down saying you are working 12-14+ hour days in a climate controlled area, the weather probably makes your wife a little happier, but no committed guy is hanging out at the beach anyway, weather is not a factor when guys are looking for the best place to succeed.

I still tend to believe Denver is where he ends up, but it seems like a lot of the national guys are linking him to Chicago based upon him being from the general area or the Jets based upon their market and a potential transition into media. But I'm not sure either team is remotely near where we are in relation to winning. I don't see how Houston and make it work financially, I don't see the Chiefs being so bold as to flip out Alex Smith for Romo and the 49ers and Browns aren't playing the same game talent wise. Taking either Davis or Williams at 10 and a defensive scheme that fits our personnel better could make us a very attractive destination, but the national guys will never admit it because we are tiny old Buffalo and it's cold for ~3 games out of the year.

Not to mention a LT that would have been a top 5 pick if it wasn't for an untimely tweet. Bottom line is Freeze sold his program (literally) to a bunch of morons in order to turn it around in the win column, Kelly was the ring leader for the group.

Sherman is absolutely a zone corner. The Seahawks run Cover 3 a majority of the time, which is a big reason their defense fell apart when Earl Thomas got hurt as they didn't have him playing center field. Agree to disagree, but I think Gillmore to a replacement level corner is a bigger drop than the difference of a $7 mil FA RT (basically Michael Oher / King Dunlop) and $7 mil WR (basically Sanu) to replacement level. In regards to Tyrod, I'm simply reading tea leaves, the way the front office treated him at the end of the year, the conflicting stories regarding the team's contact with him, etc. They certain don't seem to be acting like they know he's the starter for next year. I might be wrong (and it wouldn't be the first time) but it seems they are acting interested in him just enough to get a team to trade for him but Whaley has been eyeing QBs in the draft for several years now and there seems to be a commitment to a longer term build than we've operated with the last few years.

This. Given his resume for being an off the field distraction, he should be thankful if he gets a camp invite. Every time he's gotten responsibility put on him he's let the team down. He doesn't have the physical gifts of Jamarcus Russell (who got drafted in a different era by a poorly run team) or the on field resume of Manziel (who also got drafted by a poorly run team). It's an awful idea to use a draft pick on him.

I absolutely agree that it's dangerous to watch the all-22 without an educated eye as to what is supposed to happen. There simply isn't enough time in any NFL system to scan the entire field and the biggest thing that separates Brady from an average QB is the ability to know where to go when the ball is snapped. Defenses aren't dumb, if Tyrod is showing a tendency to always run certain plays to one side there's a reason the WR on the other side of the field is wide open, more often than not the defense knows it's just a decoy route. An uneducated eye isn't going to that level when they just watch an all 22 and see open WRs. It's also important for a fan to understand what coverages are trying to accomplish. Windows close instantly in the NFL and coverages are designed to make WRs look open in a split second. It's how the Brady pick 6 happened at the end of the half, the Falcons baited Brady into that play the entire time up to that point.

Paying average QBs like they are stars is the single worst thing a NFL team can do. If Tyrod was paid like a fringe starter I would like to keep him around, but his new contract is untenable in regards to team composition.

Agree with this completely. I've seen far too many offenses both at the NFL and college levels try to sit on 14 point leads in the middle of the 3rd quarter. It does seem like the second an offense that's rolling decides to play ball control their entire rhythm is shot and it's only a matter of time until the comeback is complete. First off, it is important to note how many times the Falcons snapped the ball with 10-15 seconds left on the play clock in the 4th quarter, that is completely unacceptable regardless of what you are trying to accomplish. However, I also agree with you that the only time I have a real complaint with the Falcons scheme was after the Jones catch. That is a situation where you run it into the line 3 times, burn the timeouts / run the clock and create a 2 score ballgame. That's more Tevin Coleman's game than Devonta Freeman's game, so I do wonder if the Coleman injury played into the play calling. It is important to note the refs missed a critical facemask on Sanu that would have offset the Matthews hold that further sunk that series after Ryan's sack. It's amazing how many times both HC and OCs fail in end-game management situations, I do think that's the #1 difference between a 11 win NFL team and a 7 win NFL team.

I don't see what skills Gillmore lacks that would prevent him from playing well in the scheme. I absolutely do not believe you can just roll any corners into a zone scheme and get away with it. The Carolina defensive numbers from 2015 to 2016 certainly don't suggest that's the case. If we let Gillmore walk, we'll need to replace him with a highly drafted corner IMO and our draft resources are spread pretty thin anyway. We are already pretty much on board with taking a QB relatively early plus our WRs, safeties and RT also need some attention through FA or the draft. If we want to take some project corners later and potentially line up a replacement for Gillmore in the near future, I'm fine with that, but I think our defense would suffer badly if our corner group was Darby / Robey / Seymour / street FA / late draft pick, regardless of scheme. My point is simply to say the majority of us already don't think Tyrod is the guy to lead us to the promised land. If we are drafting a QB early anyway, why not keep the guy we know is good and have a competition with Cardale / Rookie QB / cheaper vet QB?

My point was more the zone scheme run by McD fell apart very quickly when Norman was swapped out with corners like the ones people are suggesting would replace Gillmore. I tend to be less "QB is everything" than other people here, otherwise Rivers and Brees wouldn't have playoff droughts, if it comes down to a Gillmore vs Tyrod situation, I'm taking Gillmore.

I tend to agree with you. Being in division really complicates things in regards to a trade, but looking at the other QB talent in the draft, I don't know that giving up #10 for Jimmy + the Pats 3rd or the Browns 4th (from the Collins trade) is that outlandish (or even the Pats 2nd because they aren't getting a pick as high as #10 from anyone else), I would rather have Jimmy than any of the draftable talent this year plus getting back the extra pick gives you another bite of the apple you won't get just taking Watson / Trub / Kizer. However, I do think the team dealing for Jimmy should have hired McDaniels, I know "system QB" is a knock on guys, but I tend to view every QB as a "system" guy, you aren't going to run the same offense for Brady as you do for Cam. It may seem outlandish on it's surface, but Poppovich and Belichick are friends and Pop brought some revolutionary ideas to the NBA about resting guys. Considering how much football is a game of attrition, if you really want to preserve Brady having a "relief" pitcher you believe in may not be a bad idea. Let Jimmy play a little more early in the season or play some halves against Browns level competition, then ramp Brady up as the playoffs near. There's certainly not much heat coming from the rest of the division onto their standing.

What corner can tackle? If you need your corners to tackle 235 lbs backs, the rest of the team has already failed. That line of thinking worked great for the Panthers last year....

So here's my question: I imagine the amount of Super Bowl parties is dramatically higher in Boston and Atlanta, so if 15-20 people get together at one spot and leave their TVs off at home, how does that play into this number? Not to mention I imagine the bars in those cities are much more busy than in other places that night.

Revis Moss didn't win a ring with them but will be a HOFer

My comment was in response to someone claiming every time the Patriots get rid of someone they immediately see diminished performance. There are plenty of guys BB has moved on from who can still play. They almost always get good draft pick compensation out of it. I never intended it to sound like he did something wrong in moving those guys, just that he's not the used car salesman selling you a lemon like some would believe.

Brees wasn't traded. He was a free agent. The Chargers drafted Rivers because they didn't think Brees was a franchise guy. They allowed Brees to play while Rivers sat a year, Brees got hurt and his contract expired. Few saw him reaching the heights he did with the Saints (he was an after thought to Culpepper that FA period). Favre doesn't exactly fit the criteria because he wasn't a FA who was given a big contract, but he was a backup who was acquired on a significant dice roll.

Peyton never left money on the table. Rodgers doesn't leave money on the table. Brees doesn't leave money on the table..... Brady is a special case because he's not even the bread winner in his household, but it's no secret how big of an advantage his salary gives the Pats, yet no one else is copying it. It's not some special advantage based off selling winning (they have 1 SB win in a decade), it's because Brady is able and willing to do what other top QBs are not and that trickles through the organization.

Rich Gannon A career backup, the Raiders signed him to be their starter in FA at 33, went on to win a MVP and go to a Super Bowl. Drew Brees Basically lost his job in San Diego, New Orleans won a bit of a bidding war (that we lost). That turned out pretty well for them. While not exactly fitting the criteria of the initial question, Favre was a big gamble by the Packers, who gave up a 1st round pick and most of the league laughed at the deal when it happened.

We are in agreement on this topic. I picked up something interesting in a Simmons podcast talking to Lombardi (former Pats employee). The majority of the league operates under a structure where they have a few guys at select positions making a very high percentage of the salary cap (QB, LT, WR, Pass Rusher, CB) and then filling out the roster with cheap labor, ie draft picks and guys who've fallen through the cracks. Whaley has said multiple times this is his method. The Pats operate under a different structure, Brady is the highest paid, but at a severely depressed QB salary number and the rest of the roster is full A) guys who understand the way the team operates and sacrifice some money to fall in line or B) guys making ~$6-$10 mil that most of the league ignores in their salary structures. This allows the Pats to be a deeper team, and helps them overcome injuries to a guy like Gronk or even Brady's suspension, meanwhile guys like Collins and Jones who want to be paid are flipped out for draft picks when their value is at it's peak and the show keeps rolling along. Only Brady is "bigger than the team", it's time to extract value from Jimmy (and likely Gronk too) and just roll along. I also wouldn't be surprised if BB isn't overly concerned with post-Brady life as it might be the time he retires as well.

I'll readily admit that Belichick is the best in the business. But the way some on this board view him as a guy who never does anything wrong is incredibly annoying. He dumps guys like Jones and Collins not because they can't play, but because he doesn't want to pay them. His track record drafting WRs and RBs clearly shows the guy doesn't walk on water. Jimmy G's contract status makes it incredibly difficult to keep him around as Brady's clip board holder in perpetuity, he's going to be a RFA after next season and will likely get a contract offer the Pats can't match. Money is the reason they moved on from Collins and Jones and it'll be the reason they move on from Jimmy too, not because BB is some grand wizard who knows he'll bust, but because of Brady's depressed cap number and the pending RFA status could very likely mean Jimmy is making more than Brady in 2018, which is a distraction the Pats aren't going to begin to entertain. Because of money. Does it look like Brady has lost a step? I completely realize it could happen overnight, but it's also entirely possible given how seriously he takes conditioning and how he's rarely touched in their offensive scheme that he does play another 4 years. BB took Briskett in the 3rd round last year, he's clearly planning ahead for the reality that Jimmy won't be around long. Maybe Jimmy is a full blown "Patriots Way" koolaide drinker who'll gladly turn down an extra $10 mil a year and a guaranteed starting job to hold Tom's clip board for however long is needed, but I'm not betting on it. Jimmy's value will never be higher, BB will cash it in this offseason, and it's not because he doesn't believe in him, it's because it's the only logical move.

Pick #1 for Jimmy G. / Gronk / Brown's Jamie Collins pick back (round 3 comp or round 4) Pats add Myles Garrett to their D