Sammy Watkins' Rib

I hope so as well. But for my money, the greatest yard to go QB of all time is also the GOAT. Tom Brady. He's done it quite a few times even at his current age and I can't recall him ever not converting. I think Josh has a great chance of over taking the overall GOAT for the GOAT short yardage title.

Yeah. Ideally you come to terms on a three year extension like the the Lions did with Stafford. That way if the player totally bombs the next two years after signing the extension you may have some sort of out after 2 or 3 years. If he becomes elite you have a good QB at a slight discount. By making the commitment I think you are also helping the team in not creating any unnecessary confusion as to whether or not a QB and system may or may not be around for the next season.

Not necessarily. Check out the Bills and Patriots picks. Pats: #1 Darnold #2 TJ Watt Bills: #1 Michael Thomas #2 Josh Allen I certainly wouldn't be picking Darnold at #23 overall if Allen is going to be available at #43 overall. He's not that old. I would definitely take him second overall. He's the only slam dunk guarantee great QB that still has at least six good years left at minimum but possibly 10 with the way the game is played now and QB's taking care of them selves.

Those are fair points as the list of players to have become good after not reaching that mark in either of their first two seasons starting is basically 0. There are a couple QB's who are more than serviceable and have inked $100 million dollar long term deals or extensions who were not good in there first two years. They would be Andy Dalton and Ryan Tannehill. Good? Not really. More like good enough. Then you have Matt Stafford. Who is sort of in the mix as well. Is he good? Or just good enough? And then there is debate as to if he was good by the end of his first two years starting or not? Hard to say. He didn't get his first meaningfull season starting till his third year. Posted a 97 QB rating. But then followed that up with a career low 79 rating in his 4th season. Next two seasons he posted 84 and 85 ratings. Despite the very luke warm start to his career he and Lions managed to sign a 3 year $53 million extension the summer of 2013 coming off of his career worst year after his 4th season. Four years later after 2 avereage and 2 above average seasons he would follow that contract up with a 5 year extension that I think at the time made him the highest paid QB. I think Stafford could be an example of a scenario we follow with Josh. Ideally he breaks out big time and we sign him to the huge 5 year contract before the end of his rookie deal. But if after 4 years say Josh has played the next two season much like his last season with ratings somewhere between 85-90 in each season I could see Josh and the Bills agreeing to a shorter 3 year deal in the $70 million dollar range. Kirk Cousins probably would have been a good example had he started more games his first three seasons. But hard to use him as a good example since he only started 9 games through his first three seasons with no season having more than 5 starts. But both Stafford and Cousins are similiar in that they did not get a lot of reps in their first two seasons and each broke out in their 3rd and 4th seasons respectively. Which is where we will see Josh over the next two seasons.

His decline was very similar to the decline we saw with Tyrod. Tyrod's team never fully bottomed out although had he started a full season for the Browns maybe they would have. But Tyrod also never saw the initial highs like Kaep did. Kaep belongs in the league but his days as an everyday starter are over unless he finds the right situation with the right pieces around him.

I think you have completely different fan bases too. Both the NBA and NFL are businesses that depend on fans going to and watching the game. Remember the **** storm that Steelers fans rained down on the their team after they stayed in the locker room during the anthem? I can't imagine any NBA fan base reacting anywhere close to that level if an NBA team did that. I do agree as well that star power has a lot to do with it as well. Problem is, how many of the star QB's in the NFL kneeled? Maybe one or two? I think if four years ago players like Brady, Brees, Big Ben etc. took a knee for the anthem it would have been received a bit more openly. Did they ever say their wasn't? Honestly, just asking because I don't know. It would seem odd to me if they actually came out with a statement that said they didn't think their was a systemic problem with police brutality. I would think they would have at least taken some sort of middle ground.

I agree somewhat. But it's a different fan base. Different animal. Even then I don't really recall NBA players kneeling during the anthem. And with a league almost entirely black and games almost every night you would think many players would have. I don't think Goodell or the league are really looking for any credit here.

This is a terrible take Billl. Do you really not know why Tyrod was shipped out? I was a huge Tyrod supporter after his first season with us. But the facts are he regressed in every single season since his first season with us and that went on to include regressing even more as a Brown. Also, if you read the comments but the rest of the leaders on the Bills, they all LOVE Josh Allen.

My thought is that they already know the questions surrounding Josh now that everything is being revisited. If they can deal with it just keep Fromm. But cutting Fromm they open themselves up to new questions and circumstances that are unknown. So it may be easier and wiser to deal with the known right now. As for it not being the Bills fault, I agree. Once something is out and in the open you can't change that. But i wouldn't mind seeing some sort of law on the books to protect private text messages. I'm not saying they can't be released for use by law enforcement but when it comes to more minor things it doesn't feel right for these texts to be released.

x10 in private text messages with friends. Whether the topic is fat people, mentally disabled, sexist, racial, I guarantee a majority of young men of all backgrounds and races have in some form joked around in text messages with friends about any or all of these topics. For those that want to see Fromm cut, I think that just makes things worst for Josh Allen. You know a reporters next question is going to be why did you cut Fromm when Allen had multiple racist twitter posts? My next thought is it that it does not seem right to me that private text messages can be leaked to a public forum like twitter. If someone posts something on twitter that is one thing. But a text message between two people should remain between two people. It should take consent from both to publish to twitter or maybe law enforcement can make it public if what is being described or talked about in a text is serious enough to be used in a legal case.

Many of us feel this way. That's why when considering age, contract and the entire package, for a lot of us the list of players we would trade Allen for is only 2-5 players long. I'm willing to pass on guys proven to be better now Like Watson, Jackson and Dak for holding onto the upside Allen has.

Daniel Jones could probably lead your 'maybe' list. Since I am a biased Bills fan their are only two I would trade Allen for. Mahomes and Wilson. I think Wilson is one of those QB's that can play to 40 at a high level. Maybe even 41 or 42. So that's 8 or 10 years still of elite QB play. I really like the other 3 on you 'yes' list. And all three might even be better than Allen now. But i don't see any of them as either substantially better or a guarantee that they will sustain their success or trajectory that I would be comfortable trading Allen. I rather just take the risk of keeping Allen and hope to hit one out of the park.

Good catch. I missed that.

True. But a pretty meaningless stat. He basically reached 1000 yards and no more. Steve Johnson: 2010: 1,073 2011: 1,004 2012: 1,046 Eric Moulds: 1998: 1,368 1999: 994 2000: 1,326 2001: 904 2002: 1,292 Moulds was 6 yards shy of putting together three straight 1000 yard seasons in which two would have been 1300+ yard seasons. Even Lee Evans racked up 35 more yards than Steve Johnson over a three season span.

He probably should be in the top 5 simply for longevity, above average skill and being a team leader. But I don't recall many of the defenses he was on as very good. During his 13 year career Bills fielded a bottom half of the league defense in 9 out of those 13 years. They ranked #4 in 2014 and #2 in 2018. Mario Williams and the emergence of Jerry Hughes was a big reason why the 2014 defense was great. And the last two seasons has been due in a large part to the emergence of our secondary.

Not sure about Fitz but in 2015, Taylor's first season with us he was 8th overall in QB rating and 10th overall in QBR. He was a good QB that year. Really that team had some talent and should have been the team to break the drought. Even with Rex being a terrible coach it possibly would have happened if Taylor doesn't miss the Jags and Bengals games.

Turbitzky and the offense suffered from the Bears takeaways drying up last year. 2018 they lead the league in takeaways by a good margin. A non-sustainable stat from year to year typically. Luckily for the the Bills offense, the Bills defense was only above average in takeaways but nowhere near elite like Pittsburgh or New England last year. So in 2020 the Bills D could possibly have even more takeaways or worst case scenario they fall back from above average to average but it should be a small decline rather than a huge step back to the mean. Admittedly Allens, bar is still pretty low too. He only has to improve upon an 85 QB rating type season (although I remember you don't care for QB rating stats) to continue showing progress. He doesn't have to be out of this world to put in a 88 or 90 rating type season. Hopefully he will do better but I'd be perfectly happy with any kind of improvement even if it is very small jump. Turbititzky and Mark Sanchez are probably the two best comps though if we are considering how things could go bad for Allen. I think the difference is we have Fromm now ready to be groomed. Maybe we bring in a veteran with a lot of experience. But I could also see us just giving Fromm a legitimate shot if Allen takes a step backwards and they want a back up plan. For the Bears, I don't think it is a certainty that Foles starts of Turbitzky. Likely probably but Mitch should get his chance still in the pre-season. Assuming we have a pre-season.

Taylor gets crapped on a lot here. Yeah, he's not a good QB. Especially not a good QB now. But he did have a good first season with us. From then it was a downward trajectory. But even with that being the case the fact that he could be ranked on this list as number one I think just shows how craptastic all the other QB's were through that decade. Fitz's Bills career in a lot of ways was similar to Taylor's. Great first year, or first 8 games or so. Then a consistent downward trend after that. Fred Jackson has to be on that list for me. Honestly guys like White, Hyde and Poyer should all be considered even though they only played three seasons in this decade.

Hmm. Define bad year. Clowney on a one year prove it deal just makes too much sense. Hope he comes but won't hold my breath. Problem is after he puts in a 12+ sack season I'm not necessarily sure I want to pay him a boat load of money. It would have to be like a 16+ sack season.

Okay Scott that is fine. But you are either the only person to never use QB rating ever in any QB debate. Or a liar. If you are consistent with that thought and never bring it up then that is fair. BBF- Mahomes was really good with a 83 QB rating. That’s fine. But then does that mean we can also admit Allen was pretty good in some of his games with 83 ratings?

For those interested I found the link on Pro Football Reference where you can easily search individual player stats for deep or short passes or all kinds of things. John Brown Deep Throw Stats The link is for John Brown. But at the top of page go to the Play Index tab and then click on Game Play Finder. You can sort through virtually any player and any play scenario. In the link, scroll about half way down to find the passing stats for the QBs that threw deep passes to John Brown.

?? At the end of the day what was his QB rating? Good or bad?

Yeah that was the wrong choice of words in that post. Was meant to mean he improved over the whole of the second half of the season despite having to play those tough defenses during that stretch. I wouldn't go as far as saying his game @ New England was not good. He posted a QB rating over 100. And over the last two seasons Mahomes is the only QB to post a better QB rating than Allen at New England in 2018.

No. But there was also a 6th round QB who went on to be the GOAT. I’m not saying Minshew won’t have a long career. I believe my only main argument was that I rather have Allen over Minshew. Both finished the second half of the season with the same ability for the most part so I’ll take the guy with the sky high potential over the better version of Case Keemun. Billl, my original post on the topic was about 8 or 10 posts before the one that you read and have sited. If you read that one first I think my position makes more sense. iPhone doesn’t give me a post # to reference. my bad for the confusion on the other post.

ah. I see where are lines are crossing. You are taking that quote to mean I’ve said he played well in all three of those games. Obviously he did not. Those were great defenses. the quote is supposed to go along with the original stats showing each players first half of the season vs second half of the season. Basically I am showing that Allen improved in the second half overall while having to also play against the toughest defenses duri g that second half span. no he did not have good games against Pitt or Baltimore. But even with those two stinkers he played a tiny bit better than Minshew to finish off the second half of the season. that is my entire point. i can see where it was confusing with how I typed that so thank you for clarifying. True. Also true is that he regressed as he got more reps and more teams got film on him.